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A very exciting change find...finally graded!

BroweBrowe Posts: 236 ✭✭✭
edited September 27, 2019 7:50AM in U.S. Coin Forum

I am the only numismatist in my family. Like many of you I go through change looking for the goodies, and occasionally lightning strikes. Last night as I was going through my sister's change I stumbled upon something remarkable. A very worn, but totally original 1864 2 cent piece. She said she got it an arcade with her kids in the change dispense, and thought it was a foreign coin mixed in with tokens so she set it aside. I was absolutely stunned as this was by far the oldest and most interesting change find I come across.

This piece is very worn, but you can make out 1864 just barely. Any way to tell if this is SM or LM? Also, I'm thinking FR02, but would welcome opinions.

Thanks!



The Burbank Collection

Comments

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Super cool find

    mark

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • Batman23Batman23 Posts: 5,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is a neat change find! Someone must have had to give their two cents worth.

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,611 ✭✭✭✭✭

    With none of the motto visible, it would be very hard to determine if this was the Large or Small Motto...as far as I know.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

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  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,706 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A 153 year old, obsolete denomination coin in change ... now that is a find even if it is in low grade.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In my very early metal detecting days, (30+ years ago) I dug one of these up. Still have it somewhere, out in the garage.

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2017 4:24PM

    .

  • jedmjedm Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe a pocket piece accidentally spent? Are these at all common with such an amount of wear?

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,840 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jedm said:
    Maybe a pocket piece accidentally spent? Are these at all common with such an amount of wear?

    It's the weakest one I've seen without other damage. He might get lucky and turn this into a Poor-01 which would be of interest to the loweset possible grade regitstry collectors.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • silverpopsilverpop Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    B)

    Coins for Sale: Both Graded and Ungraded
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  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,941 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sooo many questions....

    neat

    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • KellenCoinKellenCoin Posts: 1,237 ✭✭✭✭

    I wonder what the story behind this is.

    Fan of the Oxford Comma
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  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's a tough call. I believe the excessive wear is making the shield look closer to the rim than it actually is. Thanks for pointing this diagnostic out! Didn't know about that one!

    @BillJones said:
    It's the Small Motto variety but don't get too excited. The Small Motto is more common than the guide books would lead you to believe, and with the motto completely worn off, this one won't attract much interest in that regard. When I was a dealer I cherry picked a couple of them as raw coins from dealer's inventories.

    The way to tell the difference is to note the distance between the shield and motto device and the outer rim. The Small Motto variety is close to the rim.


    The Large Motto is further away.


  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 36,776 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think it is Large motto. With the rim worn down that much, the small motto would have the shield just about touching the worn down denticles. IMHO.

  • epcjimi1epcjimi1 Posts: 3,489 ✭✭✭

    Interesting coin forensics by BillJones. I vote small motto.

  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is a stupendous find!

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great find!

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  • OldEastsideOldEastside Posts: 4,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That beats the 1866 Shield Nickel with Rays my wife found earlier this year...........Congrats

    Steve

    Promote the Hobby
  • Batman23Batman23 Posts: 5,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    I think it is Large motto. With the rim worn down that much, the small motto would have the shield just about touching the worn down denticles. IMHO.

    I think you are right. Look at the end of the Motto ribbon on the right side. See how its shaped and how the tip of that arrow protrudes above it. Looks likes a perfect match to the Large Motto shown.

  • thebeavthebeav Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think you're right-on with your 02 grade.....Great find !

    My Ebay Coin Store
  • JedPlanchetJedPlanchet Posts: 908 ✭✭✭

    Great circulation find - congrats!

    Whatever you are, be a good one. ---- Abraham Lincoln
  • BroweBrowe Posts: 236 ✭✭✭

    yosclimber - great forensic work, and I think you nailed it. Definitely LM based on the shape/size of the leaf. Thanks for your help!

    The Burbank Collection
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Now that is quite a find.... Congratulations... I have never seen a two cent piece this worn...most are in pretty good shape.... Cheers, RickO

  • divecchiadivecchia Posts: 6,688 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Finding a coin over 150 years old, regardless of the grade is an awesome find!!! :+1::+1:

    Congrats,
    Donato

    Hobbyist & Collector (not an investor).
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  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:
    It's the Small Motto variety but don't get too excited. The Small Motto is more common than the guide books would lead you to believe, and with the motto completely worn off, this one won't attract much interest in that regard. When I was a dealer I cherry picked a couple of them as raw coins from dealer's inventories.

    The way to tell the difference is to note the distance between the shield and motto device and the outer rim. The Small Motto variety is close to the rim.


    The Large Motto is further away.


    sorry, but a large Motto.

    Look at the tip of the right spear tip, much shorter past the ribbon.
    now look at the photo above.

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 29,275 ✭✭✭✭✭

    thats totally cool, i like :)

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 14,111 ✭✭✭✭✭

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    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 14,111 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PS
    I have received a lot of unusual things in change.....but not one of those, congrats :smile:

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    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 27, 2017 8:34PM

    That's an amazing find.
    Most likely ended up in use at the arcade because it's similar in size and weight to generic tokens.
    Stolen from someone most likely.
    Still most unusual.
    Circ find of the month....maybe of the year!

  • OldEastsideOldEastside Posts: 4,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's totally cool and it beats the 1866 shield nickel my wife pulled out her till earlier this year
    I recall telling her that she probably got the oldest coin in change than anyone in the country
    that day.

    Steve

    Promote the Hobby
  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Browe said:
    I renewed my membership and sent this in on a cc voucher. Came back FR02, though selfishly I was hoping to have the first PO1 graded. Still a fun find!

    Awesome find and almost two years to the day! Congrats and thanks for the followup post!

  • DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,379 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's a large motto.

    I'd bet anyone $100 on it.

    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

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  • RayboRaybo Posts: 5,341 ✭✭✭✭✭

    First time that I have noticed this thread.
    I'm not any kind of expert of distinguishing between a 1 or 2 but it looks like you nailed it from your first post....and you posted a 2 Cent Piece to boot! <3

  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 7,417 ✭✭✭✭✭

    nice!!

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hey... great follow up... and Congratulations on the find again.... Cheers, RickO

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,706 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The find itself was exceptional ... a 150 year old 2 cent piece. Spending the money to have it graded ... hmmmmmmm? Will low-ball collectors pay much for a Fair 2?

    All glory is fleeting.

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