"Buy what you like"---a different perspective
Gazes
Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
I see the cliche "buy what you like" all the time on these boards and it is often given as advice to new collectors. However, I have noticed the cliche "buy what you like" seems to be used narrowly on here. For instance:
1) If someone likes a coin and pays "moon money" for the coin we often see comments that "i would rather have" some other coin for that money, "that collector is buried", etc. If someone loves a coin and decides to pay more than the market, why do we not hear "good for them---they bought what they liked."?
2) Some collectors like the look of CAC coins (for instance, i definitely prefer the look of CAC liberty quarter eagles over non CAC quarter eagles). Why do collectors who prefer CAC coins not get the same "buy what you like and if that is CAC good for you"
3) Often we hear "buy what you like" and don't worry about the registry or competition. In fact, collectors who are competitive are sometimes looked down upon. But what about collectors who enjoy the registry competition? Its like golf, some people like to go out and enjoy a social game and others get their enjoyment from competing and trying to be the best. If buying coins that improve their registry ranking is what they like, why are those collectors often chastised?
My point is "buy what you like" is very subjective to each person. Where you see it most here is describing a coin that may be low grade, inexpensive, etc. That is fine but it also applies to other coins. So before you negatively comment on a coin or collector because they bought it for moon money or for registry purposes---maybe they were just doing what everyone says---they bought what they like.
Comments
Coins have feelings too.
Why are you so easily offended by other opinions? This is a public chat room and when you post a coin or start a thread you are automatically opening yourself up to the opinions (both the ones you like and the ones you dislike) of the members that see and wish to respond. If opinions that differ from your own are so offensive to you perhaps you would be better off not posting, or you can accept that not everyone will be a "yes" man and will post their opinion even if that upsets you. Most make statements like those you outlined because that is how they feel, why do their thoughts carry less weight and value than yours?
As an example; you said "2) Some collectors like the look of CAC coins (for instance, i definitely prefer the look of CAC liberty quarter eagles over non CAC quarter eagles). Why do collectors who prefer CAC coins not get the same "buy what you like and if that is CAC good for you" This makes no sense to me, if you see a coin with no bean but that coin has never been to CAC you are automatically discounting it as inferior. Now fast forward a year lets say and you see that very same coin except that now it has been submitted to CAC and now has a green bean. Are you really suggesting that that same coin which has not changed one bit is now better looking just because of the bean?? Nothing has changed except your perception and in my opinion (one you certainly don't like lol) you didn't look at the coin or evaluate the coin only the sticker.
Keep in mind that just because that is what I think I am not telling you what to do and doesn't require you to change what or how you buy; perhaps you should start a CAC buyers only forum where you might feel better.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
It's all ...perception... and ...propaganda.
I'm noticing lately that my searching for "best example in grade" is sort of counterproductive.
I pay more but still have the perception of the "grade" on the label.
Rethinking a lot of things lately.
Well, what they really mean to say is: "I buy what I like."
Everyone thinks they are doing it "right" and other people are doing it "wrong".
In responding to a posted coin, saying that one would buy a different coin or the collector is buried is different than telling the collector to not buy what they like.
Indeed, we have a bunch of threads seemingly extolling the virtues of being buried
LOL. I'm not sure those people even consider themselves "buried". They seem to be extolling the virtues of loving a coin more than anyone else on the planet.
I think collectors who are buried prefer to think of themselves as being ahead of the curve.
I agree with this!
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I buy what I like but also buy it right. No desire be the end user.
If you buy a CAC coin for moon money and put it in a registry set, I won't hold anything against you.
Feel better?
I will say, as a mild correction, people generally DON'T say "buy what you like no matter the cost".
I will actually CHEER for them...as long as they bought it from me!
My thoughts are in line with @MFeld (Mark Feld’s) rule number one:
Buy/collect what YOU like. But keep in mind that when it comes time to sell, not everyone else will necessarily like what you did/do.
People here have been witness to the fleecing of countless innocents who were “taken” by a fast-talking dealer. The instinct to try and help others avoid this is strong. Unfortunately, many people end up disappointed at sale time. Some of what you see (or don’t see) here comes from a desire to help others avoid the same fate.
...... and sometimes it’s just the uniformed opinion of ignorant people.
I think part of the problem is what people say and what they truly mean
ie
"Its okay to be different" when they mean 'Be different like me or you're square.'
"Buy what you like.".. '... only if the 'in' people like it too.'
I say just be yourself, buy what you like, and ignore what people say.
"2) Some collectors like the look of CAC coins (for instance, i definitely prefer the look of CAC liberty quarter eagles over non CAC quarter eagles)."
So that translates to the sticker looking nicer, not the coin.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
It's shiny and it's green, of course it spruces things up!
enjoying the comments---thanks for the responses
absolutely not. If you have seen as many liberty QEs as me, CAC 2.5s generally have a look that i like (by the way there are very few % wise that have the look and thats why there are so few CAC QEs). Again buying what i like which has alot to do with natural color.
thanks for your thoughts. i was just expressing my opinion just like everyone else
very true statement
ire you to change what or how you buy; perhaps you should start a CAC buyers only forum where you might feel better.
Not me. I was speaking 100% absolute truth.
If you post an image of a new coin, you will likely get a least a few well thought out, knowledgeable, objective responses. Most of what you get will probably be more subjective comments reflecting individual collectors' preferences and bias. Put on your big-boy or big-girl pants and allow yourself to enjoy and learn from the process.
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins, justindan, doubleeagle07
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't no optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me. . . . . . .
We believe in truth over facts.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
That's why I didn't supply any facts.
like my title says---i have a different perspective. thanks
The nature of "us" as a whole....not always logical or without hypocrisy....but at least a shared interest.
I buy what I like.... and I do not give an obese rodents derriere what others think or say.....It is my money, my coin and my hobby....and I laugh and have fun all the time....Cheers, RickO
I'm not sure anyone intended "Buy what you like" to be the ONLY advice you need.
If you really like that MS-65 1959 Lincoln cent, and paid $1000 for it....Well, there seems to be some added advice that you probably need to hear.
The "buy what you like" idea is more of a guiding principal. Don't get caught up in fads, or feel you have to follow the crowd. Once you know what "you like", then there are other principals of value and quality that should be learned....
How about: "Buy what you like...but, buyer beware"
I think it depends on why someone is buying a coin, especially an expensive one. Bruce Morelan had a Classic Large Cent I really liked and I asked him how much he wanted for it. This is the only time I made a comment like this about a particular coin; I liked it that much and knew I'd never see another one as nice as this one. If I had bought it, I'd be keeping it. Period
This is much different than someone selling a family member (that he actually liked) to buy the finest known modern coin, thinking he was the smartest person in the room and he could flip the coin for a fortune. Tommy Type has the right idea.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
At my house, I know my wife would rather donate money to charity instead of buying a shiny trinket and when I buy a self inflicted burial because I’m under some toned up disks spell that fits my collection perfectly that I just know I deserve for working so much, she’ll say “you could have saved the whales!” Or something like it. I lump coins in the depreciating asset class just like a camper, or motorcycle let’s say and keep the enjoyment factor and my ego in perspective that way.
That’s a wild idea. 😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm not sure I understand the CAC comment at top. So as an example I just bought a coin that was MS62. I asked the seller if they thought it could go to cac. Their response was in fact they did think it would sticker, but actually had sent it in and it did not sticker. I still loved the coin and wasn't buying it for the sticker, so I bought anyway.
Now, I thought the bean was used as a statement to the grade something receives. IE it gets the sticker if they feel it's strong for the grade. They felt mine wasn't so they didn't sticker it. However, if the exact same coin had a 61 on it instead, it probably would have received the bean if they assumed it was actually a low 62 in a 61 holder. Sorry this is off track a bit but I'm confused by statement 2.
Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.
My point was that i like liberty quarter eagles that have natural color. Of course there are worthy coins in my series that are not CAC and coins that are CAC that i dont like---but by far i prefer the look that JA seems to sticker. And i buy what i like. Its fine if people dont share my point of view or taste. However i am buying what i like.
It’s a hobby, so yes, buy what you like. It’s supposed to be enjoyable, right? Who cares what other people think? Depending on what you buy, though, you or your heirs may get substantially hammered someday. It’s something to ponder if you get too far out in left field.
Dave
You might get hammered. It's all free money for your heirs. But if you don't think about your heirs when you play golf or go to Starbuck's, do you have to consider them when you bury yourself in a coin?
Can’t survive w/o Starbucks, neither can my heirs!
Dave
I'm fine saying buy what you like, and I'm fine with someone buying coins that I don't like, but that doesn't mean that I don't think some approaches are foolish. Here are my retorts to each of your points:
1- Someone paying moon money is a matter of considering what's available. There are times when it takes a lot more than a "normal" price to get a certain coin. No issue there, even if I think there's a better value elsewhere. However, if someone pays that moon money for a coin that isn't special or unique to deserve its moon money price tag, I don't think it's a smart purchase. It's not to say don't buy the coin, but don't buy that coin at that price. I sometimes see one-sided PL/DMPL 1881-S dollars offered at high premiums because one side looks superb. That's great, but there are a TON of those out there. Can that coin be appealing and worth a premium? Sure, but a small one. Don't pay "just-miss" DMPL money for it.
2- "for instance, i definitely prefer the look of CAC liberty quarter eagles over non CAC quarter eagles." So you're buying a sticker, not a coin. If you just want a CAC coin, more power to you, but if that means you aren't looking at other coins, then you're missing out. I will grant you that in a large group of coins with identical grades, there is a good chance a higher percentage of CAC coins will be in the "really nice for the grade" category than the non-CAC coins, but not necessarily. What if a lot of the coins never went to CAC? You aren't comparing CAC to CAC rejects, you're comparing CAC to unknown status. And with that latter category, there can certainly be a coin just as nice or nicer than the CAC examples in a non-CAC holder. Your statement may work for a random coin, but it's ridiculous to say that you simply prefer the look of a CAC coin over a non-CAC coin without seeing the two coins.
3- Registry. Again, spend your money. If you want to collect coins, buy the COINS you like. My issue with the registry is that it prioritizes grade and grading company over coin, resulting in the collecting of plastic. For my very brief foray into registries many years ago, I found myself ignoring certain grading companies and aiming for coins because of the label. This led me to miss some great coins in the wrong holder or grade. If someone wants a certain coin and it fits in their set, wonderful. But if someone wants a certain coin only because the registry says they should have it, or decides they don't want a coin only because the registry says it's not the right coin, they're not collecting coins anymore.
I can put this a different way. If someone wants to collect differently from me, that's fine, and if they're happy, great. But that doesn't mean I won't note that there may be better options for the money, especially if they're looking at the coin first and foremost.
I've donated to The Nature Conservancy to preserve land. Among other projects, they are working on preserving a 6.5 million tract in Canada now with no roads or other human improvements.
As for my collection, I like to think some of my holdings might be in a museum one day.
I like gold CAC stickers. Unfortunately, I am unable to collect them without having a gold sticker attached to a coin.
I had one other thought that ties into what I wrote earlier. "Collect what you like" works much better when the buyer is consistent. If someone says they love problem coins, then even though they're not a category I'd collect, if the buyer is informed, have at it. If someone says they're building a set of great coins (great for the grade, for the type, for a given price per coin, great eye appeal, etc.) and then says that they only consider a certain subset of coins eligible due to the holder or sticker, then I question what they're doing. Sure, they can buy what they want, but they're not letting coins pass them by that may be better for a reason that isn't an issue with the coin itself.
I agree only in the sense that it means "Buy the coin(s) you like."
Here is an explanation: 1) Let's say that for whatever reason I like 1982 proof sets. It would nevertheless be insane to buy this one for $50 https://ebay.com/itm/1982-S-Proof-Set-United-States-US-Mint-Original/223625029338?hash=item34111726da:g:ujIAAOSw5eRdVd-S It's fine to buy what you like, but insane to pay far too much for it. Better to buy this one for $4. https://ebay.com/itm/United-States-Proof-Set-1982/264409652273?hash=item3d900b1c31%3Ag%3ADBAAAOSwxndcS47S&LH_BIN=1
2) No problem if you like a coin that happens to be approved by CAC. Problem if you are buying the sticker rather than the coin. Worse problem if you are trying to convince yourself that any coin that happens to have a sticker is one that you like and any coin that doesn't is one that you don't.
3) Buying a piece of plastic to win a contest does not equate to buying a coin.
My final point is to buy the coin(s) you like, not stickers or plastic, and pay a price that, if not optimal, at least isn't stupid.
I don't play the registry game. That said, if someone wants to, I have NO PROBLEM with them buying the holder not the coin. It's what they collect. My preference need not apply.
For example, I think date/mintmark collecting is an absurd waste of money. Why would you pay $1000 for a worn 1916-D dime when $100 will get you an amazing 1944 that just had a different date? But people do buy key dates and that is their right and my preference need not apply.
There is NOTHING WRONG with only buying plastic or stickers if that's the way you want to collect. If you only want gen 1.0 holders and won't buy any coin that isn't in a gen 1.0 holder, have at it.
That said, we will all give our opinions and display our bias. So if you ask me about a 16D dime, I might suggest type collecting. But I will never tell you not to do what you want.
Part of the problem is those asking for the opinion aren't seeking opinions so much as validation.
CAC not on my list of buying what I like lol.
Although I agree with the sentiment originally posted, this forum would be pretty boring if every purchase post was greeted by "way to go, good for you sport". Criticism can hurt, but one can learn from it too. We change, a little, sometimes.
completely agree with your post. My point was not to say there should be no criticism but only to point out that some people say "buy what you like" regarding some coins but are critical when people do just that with registry coins, CAC, etc.
To be fair, that really isn't necessarily inconsistent. I can tell you to buy what you like but still tell you that I think $10,000 for a VG 1916-D dime is a ridiculous expense. I can tell you to buy what you like but still tell you that I think spending $10k for a 67 to compete in the registry when a 66 costs $100 is a ridiculous premium. Heck, JA himself suggested that CAC premiums were ridiculously high.
@Gazes This is closer to how, in my opinion, you should have worded the OP. Something like: "Of course there are CAC Liberty Quarter Eagles I won't like and non-CAC that I will, but the bottom line is that there is a specific look that I am going after. It just so happens that the majority of these that CAC stickers have that look. So to narrow down the field and make my life MUCH easier, I seek out CAC examples and then choose my purchases from that sampling."
It’s maybe important to recognize that when you get to a certain level in the series you collect, very few people can actually give useful feedback. But that doesn’t mean they won’t try.
As for CAC, what happens if I peel a green bean off a great looking $2.5 and offer it to you? My bet is you’ll snap it up with a smile, but perhaps not? Do you agonize over whether it’s been to CAC, or just “buy what you like”?
My response is a bit off the OP but since it is my OP oh well. Most pre 1900 liberty quarter eagles have been sent to CAC. Certainly there are some that have not but if they are for sale my assumption is they have been. The assumption is based on comments JA has made about the number of coins he has seen and also the price differential between CAC and Non CAC in this series. The price differential is greater because the percentage of stickered better date liberty QEs in unc or high au is small (sometimes 5% but rarely over 15% for better dates).
So to your question, if you handed me an 1850-D without a sticker in relatively high grade, my thought process would be like this. The coin most likely has been to CAC because an unc 50-D with a sticker is worth more money in UNC. So I would not agonize over whether it has been to CAC--I would assume it has been (keep in mind the series, the date and the grade). I would then look to see if I liked the coin and assuming yes I would then try to determine why it did not sticker. I would probably focus on color because that is important to me. If the color was right for the date and there were no other obvious disqualifications I would probably snap it up. I would understand there are only 2 CAC coins for this date in UNC and would be happy with this coin because 1) I liked it 2) the color is consistent with CAC 3) hopefully I am getting it at a better price since there is no sticker and 4) even if I wanted a CAC coin it may never happen with this date (he is hard on the Dahlonega mint).
Then at some point I would send it to CAC and I would be thrilled that CAC realized it had been stickered and peeled off and they would resticker it.
To get back slightly on topic. I think it depends on the knowledge of the person buying. If someone told me buy what you like, that wouldn’t be the greatest advice because I haven’t had 20-30 years to develop my eye. Typically I find coins I think I like, then send photos to a few people on here asking their thoughts. If I just bought what I liked with out asking, I’d have a few more problem coins than intended because I didn’t know what I was looking at.
Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.