What ever became of that retangular, grey essay piece we saw here at CU a long time ago?
It was like a splasher, had several early medallic designs, including the Libertas motifs, IIRC, wherein the head was well cast in relief, exactly as it appears, while a small cap and pole was apparently squeezed into the remaining space to the edge of the bar by crather crudely inscribing with a tool rather than casting or struck.
Anyone else remember that or did i dream it? It seemed to explain the incongruity in style and execution on the final product..
I tried to snatch a piece or two but you never left the table
Outstanding display. Extremely well presented.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Ronyahski said:
I am at ANA , where is this exhibit???
Stack’s as soon as you walk in
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I’m familiar with all the Libertas medals and own most . It was the Bolen pieces that blew me away today.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
What ever became of that retangular, grey essay piece we saw here at CU a long time ago?
It was like a splasher, had several early medallic designs, including the Libertas motifs, IIRC, wherein the head was well cast in relief, exactly as it appears, while a small cap and pole was apparently squeezed into the remaining space to the edge of the bar by crather crudely inscribing with a tool rather than casting or struck.
Anyone else remember that or did i dream it? It seemed to explain the incongruity in style and execution on the final product..
Danged last minute executive change orders! 😫
The essay piece was left out of the display this time around, due to space limitations. After some research, that piece seems to be the source of the right-facing Libertas pictured in the Hibernian Journal of 1783, along with the textiles of the early 19th century that show that very same image. When there is more space available in future displays, those will be included, as I do have that Hibernian Journal and one of the textiles.
@Justacommeman said:
I’m familiar with all the Libertas medals and own most . It was the Bolen pieces that blew me away today.
mark
The tokens are another story. The Bolen pieces are the most artistic, but are limited in numbers. There are 15 different medals/tokens made by Bolen himself. Then, after the die was sold to Kline, Kline struck 18 different medals/tokens. Frankly, the most available of these is the Libertas obverse with Bolen's portrait on the reverse struck in copper. There were 16 pieces struck of that token, and the remaining tokens have ever smaller populations.
The Lingg Brothers copied the die in a slightly smaller diameter, and there are 155 different tokens of those!
@ARCO said:
I didn't notice at first but you actually have two copies of many just to display the reverse. Show off!
Yes, that was intended for easy viewing!! I was very fortunate to be able to get two Silver Betts-608s in uncirculated condition! Those don’t come on the market that often.
@ARCO said:
I didn't notice at first but you actually have two copies of many just to display the reverse. Show off!
Yes, that was intended for easy viewing!! I was very fortunate to be able to get two Silver Betts-608s in uncirculated condition! Those don’t come on the market that often.
Now yer just showing off...….
;-)
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@ARCO said:
I didn't notice at first but you actually have two copies of many just to display the reverse. Show off!
Yes, that was intended for easy viewing!! I was very fortunate to be able to get two Silver Betts-608s in uncirculated condition! Those don’t come on the market that often.
Now yer just showing off...….
;-)
The colorful Bettts-608 is Ex: John Adams and that one was costly. The second one is Ex: John Sallay, and that one was so overlooked by the bidders, I couldn't pass it by. It may have been that the Sallay specimen was graded by NGC, but it crossed over to PCGS on the first try. (That one is graded at MS61.)
Just looked at the display. Ooohed three times. Aaaahed four times!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Thanks for showing us both the display and the closeups. Until seeing the coins together I had never appreciated that my Chain Cents featured the same lady as on the iconic medals despite her unkempt hair on the coinage.
I tried to get him over to the table yesterday! I was going to have Abe come over as well but he was giving Stewart Blay an earful and I didn’t want to interrupt
M
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Thank you to all who visited the display - either in person or visiting this thread! It was a lively week at the ANA!
While none of the items in the display were for sale (my most asked question was “what are you selling lid for?”), countless dozens of attendees came by and got a refresher of Revolutionary War history; and that was the whole reason for the display.
Most memorable — a father and 14 year old son came by, and the son is a coin prodigy. He was reeling off facts of this coin and that coin, and then he showed me his latest purchase — a 1793 S-14 Liberty Cap cent, graded PO-1 by PCGS. I told him I had seen that coin decades ago and thought that it was quite meaty for the grade. It was what he could afford, but think about how his interest in coins will grow through the years!
Later that day, he came back and asked if he could take a picture of his coin and the S-14 in the display (Ex: Dan Homes and Pogue, PCGS-AU53+) for his records! He had already taken a similar photo of his coin with the second best S-14.
You just have to admire his youthful enthusiasm, and envision him being a leader in the industry in the future!
@cardinal said:
Thank you to all who visited the display - either in person or visiting this thread! It was a lively week at the ANA!
While none of the items in the display were for sale (my most asked question was “what are you selling lid for?”), countless dozens of attendees came by and got a refresher of Revolutionary War history; and that was the whole reason for the display.
Most memorable — a father and 14 year old son came by, and the son is a coin prodigy. He was reeling off facts of this coin and that coin, and then he showed me his latest purchase — a 1793 S-14 Liberty Cap cent, graded PO-1 by PCGS. I told him I had seen that coin decades ago and thought that it was quite meaty for the grade. It was what he could afford, but think about how his interest in coins will grow through the years!
Later that day, he came back and asked if he could take a picture of his coin and the S-14 in the display (Ex: Dan Homes and Pogue, PCGS-AU53+) for his records! He had already taken a similar photo of his coin with the second best S-14.
You just have to admire his youthful enthusiasm, and envision him being a leader in the industry in the future!
Don't mean to hijack the thread. Sullivan, a great friend of mine who I've known for around a year. His PO-01 Cap is nice.
I actually wanted to ask to see your S-14 Liberty Cap, because the die crack was so appealing to me, but I couldn't disrespect the Disme like that!
Again, it was wonderful seeing you Martin. Til next time!
@Ronyahski said:
I spent a good 12-20 minutes enjoying the display. Never met the cardinal so not sure if he was around. But thank you.
What is the backstory of the Libertas book drawing?
I was at the display most of the time from Tuesday on through to Friday. The only time I was away for a period was on Friday while attending the PCGS Luncheon.
The Libertas drawing was a plate from a German Almanac of 1784. A similar plate was included in the 1783 edition of that Almanac. The plate itself is quite small, and it is something that I picked up from eBay years ago for the phenomenal price of $1. Aside from the Explication commissioned by Franklin (most of which were destroyed when the ship that held them took on water during its trip to the U.S.), the Almanac's plate was the first accurate publication of the Libertas Americana medal.
The Hibernian Journal of 1783 included a plate of the Libertas Americana medal as well, but it is flawed:
@Baley You can readily see the resemblance the Hibernian Journal plate with that "splasher" piece:
Ah, yes! Not quite how I remembered, but see how the cap and pole is fit in, and in different style? As if added later, when someone said, "we must have a hat on a stick!"
And notice how the bow at k2 resembles the hair tie on the later Draped Bust (fillet head) design?
What is the origin and date of this fascinating piece??
Image saved! hadn't seen it in years.. what's on the other side?
Wish PCGS would have let you say a few words from the podium.....but thanks for the background information shared in this thread and of course the awesome exhibit .
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
@bidask said:
Well earned award at the PCGS luncheon Martin.
Wish PCGS would have let you say a few words from the podium.....but thanks for the background information shared in this thread and of course the awesome exhibit .
Was nice chatting with you at the exhibit. I was the dude on the electric scooter.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@Baley said:
Ah, yes! Not quite how I remembered, but see how the cap and pole is fit in, and in different style? As if added later, when someone said, "we must have a hat on a stick!"
And notice how the bow at k2 resembles the hair tie on the later Draped Bust (fillet head) design?
What is the origin and date of this fascinating piece??
Image saved! hadn't seen it in years.. what's on the other side?
Thanks so much for showing it
Based on the images struck into it, I would estimate it was created sometime in France in the 1780's. The signature is that of French engraver Fleury Montagny (1760-1836) who was a contemporary of Augustin Dupre.
The images of Franklin and Napoleon match those of the medals of that time, and the Lion is very similar to what is seen in the Sierra Leone Company coins of that era as well. I don't know about the ribbon, as it's not complete. It might be a ribbon in a person's hair, but to my eyes, it looks more like a ribbon on a horse's tail. The water nymph is also a mystery, and I've not been able to identify its connection.
The piece itself came from a mini auction from Catherine Bullowa Moore, held at her table at the 2012 ANA in Philadelphia.
Had it been a competitive exhibit it would have won Best In Show!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
At the show, I was asked if the 1969 ANA Medals were in the display. Like the “splasher” above, the 1969 medals were left out of the display this time around.
Several visitors to the display expressed interest in the Explication and the 1784 Plate you see above. Feel free to download those images from this thread.
I also offered to those visitors that if they provided me with their name and postal address, I would ship to them prints of both of those. So, anyone here wanting those prints, just PM me with your name and address, and I’ll ship them out to you - totally free of charge!
cardinal
Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
Awesome educational display and really enjoyed the discussion. Thanks Martin!
Latin American Collection
Great collection! Thanks for posting the display.
The 1792 Disme was everything I expected, and more! Thank you for allowing me to see it Martin, and it was great meeting you as well.
Excellent display and even better information from someone who appreciates knowledge.
looks like a fantastic display, wish I could be there.
Bravo! Wish I could be there to see it in person.
Awesome display!!
What ever became of that retangular, grey essay piece we saw here at CU a long time ago?
It was like a splasher, had several early medallic designs, including the Libertas motifs, IIRC, wherein the head was well cast in relief, exactly as it appears, while a small cap and pole was apparently squeezed into the remaining space to the edge of the bar by crather crudely inscribing with a tool rather than casting or struck.
Anyone else remember that or did i dream it? It seemed to explain the incongruity in style and execution on the final product..
Danged last minute executive change orders! 😫
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I tried to snatch a piece or two but you never left the table
Outstanding display. Extremely well presented.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I am at ANA , where is this exhibit???
Stack’s as soon as you walk in
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Danka
Speechless ..... just EXQUISITE!
Great display, I think I just stood there for five minutes admiring.
I’m familiar with all the Libertas medals and own most . It was the Bolen pieces that blew me away today.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
The essay piece was left out of the display this time around, due to space limitations. After some research, that piece seems to be the source of the right-facing Libertas pictured in the Hibernian Journal of 1783, along with the textiles of the early 19th century that show that very same image. When there is more space available in future displays, those will be included, as I do have that Hibernian Journal and one of the textiles.
The tokens are another story. The Bolen pieces are the most artistic, but are limited in numbers. There are 15 different medals/tokens made by Bolen himself. Then, after the die was sold to Kline, Kline struck 18 different medals/tokens. Frankly, the most available of these is the Libertas obverse with Bolen's portrait on the reverse struck in copper. There were 16 pieces struck of that token, and the remaining tokens have ever smaller populations.
The Lingg Brothers copied the die in a slightly smaller diameter, and there are 155 different tokens of those!
One of the show highlights. Having Martin take the time to go through all of my questions made it even better.
Beautiful display and thanks for the pictures..... Very impressive. Cheers, RickO
...That's Totally Bad Ass @cardinal !
Awesome display.
Wish I was there to see it in person but thanks for the pics.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
Top drawer, as always!
Some close-ups for those that couldn't come to the ANA....
@cardinal said:
Some close-ups for those that couldn't come to the ANA....
Thank you from one that was unable to attend.
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us
I didn't notice at first but you actually have two copies of many just to display the reverse. Show off!
Yes, that was intended for easy viewing!! I was very fortunate to be able to get two Silver Betts-608s in uncirculated condition! Those don’t come on the market that often.
Now yer just showing off...….
;-)
The colorful Bettts-608 is Ex: John Adams and that one was costly. The second one is Ex: John Sallay, and that one was so overlooked by the bidders, I couldn't pass it by. It may have been that the Sallay specimen was graded by NGC, but it crossed over to PCGS on the first try. (That one is graded at MS61.)
A few more close-ups....
Just looked at the display. Ooohed three times. Aaaahed four times!
A very drool-worthy display! Thank you for sharing!
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
Thanks for showing us both the display and the closeups. Until seeing the coins together I had never appreciated that my Chain Cents featured the same lady as on the iconic medals despite her unkempt hair on the coinage.
A VIP just visited the display....
I tried to get him over to the table yesterday! I was going to have Abe come over as well but he was giving Stewart Blay an earful and I didn’t want to interrupt
M
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Ah that early copper = PERFECTION!
Thank you to all who visited the display - either in person or visiting this thread! It was a lively week at the ANA!
While none of the items in the display were for sale (my most asked question was “what are you selling lid for?”), countless dozens of attendees came by and got a refresher of Revolutionary War history; and that was the whole reason for the display.
Most memorable — a father and 14 year old son came by, and the son is a coin prodigy. He was reeling off facts of this coin and that coin, and then he showed me his latest purchase — a 1793 S-14 Liberty Cap cent, graded PO-1 by PCGS. I told him I had seen that coin decades ago and thought that it was quite meaty for the grade. It was what he could afford, but think about how his interest in coins will grow through the years!
Later that day, he came back and asked if he could take a picture of his coin and the S-14 in the display (Ex: Dan Homes and Pogue, PCGS-AU53+) for his records! He had already taken a similar photo of his coin with the second best S-14.
You just have to admire his youthful enthusiasm, and envision him being a leader in the industry in the future!
@cardinal
Again, thank you for all the posts and information. Wow.
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us
I spent a good 12-20 minutes enjoying the display. Never met the cardinal so not sure if he was around. But thank you.
What is the backstory of the Libertas book drawing?
I wish I could have attended the show but it's nice to see the display here. Wonderful coins and medals.
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
Don't mean to hijack the thread. Sullivan, a great friend of mine who I've known for around a year. His PO-01 Cap is nice.
I actually wanted to ask to see your S-14 Liberty Cap, because the die crack was so appealing to me, but I couldn't disrespect the Disme like that!
Again, it was wonderful seeing you Martin. Til next time!
I was at the display most of the time from Tuesday on through to Friday. The only time I was away for a period was on Friday while attending the PCGS Luncheon.
The Libertas drawing was a plate from a German Almanac of 1784. A similar plate was included in the 1783 edition of that Almanac. The plate itself is quite small, and it is something that I picked up from eBay years ago for the phenomenal price of $1. Aside from the Explication commissioned by Franklin (most of which were destroyed when the ship that held them took on water during its trip to the U.S.), the Almanac's plate was the first accurate publication of the Libertas Americana medal.
The Hibernian Journal of 1783 included a plate of the Libertas Americana medal as well, but it is flawed:
@Baley You can readily see the resemblance the Hibernian Journal plate with that "splasher" piece:
Ah, yes! Not quite how I remembered, but see how the cap and pole is fit in, and in different style? As if added later, when someone said, "we must have a hat on a stick!"
And notice how the bow at k2 resembles the hair tie on the later Draped Bust (fillet head) design?
What is the origin and date of this fascinating piece??
Image saved! hadn't seen it in years.. what's on the other side?
Thanks so much for showing it
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Well earned award at the PCGS luncheon Martin.
Wish PCGS would have let you say a few words from the podium.....but thanks for the background information shared in this thread and of course the awesome exhibit .
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Thanks for the picture! Here’s the award:
A well deserved award. Fantastic set and display. Congratulations.
Was nice chatting with you at the exhibit. I was the dude on the electric scooter.
Based on the images struck into it, I would estimate it was created sometime in France in the 1780's. The signature is that of French engraver Fleury Montagny (1760-1836) who was a contemporary of Augustin Dupre.
The images of Franklin and Napoleon match those of the medals of that time, and the Lion is very similar to what is seen in the Sierra Leone Company coins of that era as well. I don't know about the ribbon, as it's not complete. It might be a ribbon in a person's hair, but to my eyes, it looks more like a ribbon on a horse's tail. The water nymph is also a mystery, and I've not been able to identify its connection.
The piece itself came from a mini auction from Catherine Bullowa Moore, held at her table at the 2012 ANA in Philadelphia.
Awesome display! One of my primary reasons to attend the ANA is to view displays like this!
Thank you for adding to my ANA experience.
Had it been a competitive exhibit it would have won Best In Show!
At the show, I was asked if the 1969 ANA Medals were in the display. Like the “splasher” above, the 1969 medals were left out of the display this time around.
Here they are:
Several visitors to the display expressed interest in the Explication and the 1784 Plate you see above. Feel free to download those images from this thread.
I also offered to those visitors that if they provided me with their name and postal address, I would ship to them prints of both of those. So, anyone here wanting those prints, just PM me with your name and address, and I’ll ship them out to you - totally free of charge!