@1951WheatiesPremium said:
And to get back to the thread, as a Giants fan, I’d hate to be starting another season in a hole. For many reasons. And yet, already there’s some problems arising.
It sounds like Shepherd could/will be fine (though lost time and reps still hurt) but losing Golden Tate for 4 weeks and Corey Coleman for the season is just brutal. Still, with a revamped line and Saquon Barkley I’m optimistic that we will still be able to muster some points.
Defensively, they’re young and unproven. There is some existing talent on the roster and the drafted players are anybody’s guess. I’m hopeful that some of the guys I like last year - Lorenzo Carter, BJ Hill - can get better.
We’re not going to be some juggernaut at all but I am hopeful that the Giants will win a few of these close games they lost last year and make the season interesting. Either way, it will be fun to watch Eli Manning finish his Giant career (as I think that’s the case short of a Super Bowl win) and if the season begins terribly we’ll find out about the new kid.
I think Dallas, Bills, Bucs, Skins are the first four games.
Should be fun...
Go Giants
Golden Tate, suffice to say was a disappointment with the Eagles last season. Maybe you'll have better luck with him.
As you know the Giants finished in the NFC East basement last season with a 5-11 record, and actually had more wins on the road than at home.
I haven't begun following the Giants that closely yet, but I can't see right now how they will markedly improve this season. I would guess 5-11 again, perhaps 6-10.
@perkdog said:
Without Brady the pats don’t win 6 Super Bowls, without Brady they don’t go to 9 Super Bowls. 100% FACT and it’s not even remotely debatable
You Patriots fans still don't get it about Belichick. Without Belichick, the chances are basically 100% that the Patriots never draft Brady to begin with. Even if there was an infinitesimal chance that the Patriots did draft Brady, chances are that another head coach would have cut him during the pre-season or certainly Brady would have likely never developed into a super star.
That's just for starters. Belichick superbly surrounds Brady every season with players who are motivated and hungry to win a championship. Smart players as well who can be coached up. And it's extremely rare that Belichick gets outcoached in a game as Doug Pederson did to him two Super Bowls ago.
Those are the facts and it amazes me that hard headed Patriots fans to this day, they overall dislike Belichick the GOAT so much that they can't acknowledge the obvious.
The Patriots are a slight favorite to win the upcoming Super Bowl, and it isn't because they have a QB who will be 42 years old when the season begins. Yes, Brady is an important part of the reason for the Patriots being a favorite, but it is mainly because of Bill Belichick.
Steve you keep dodging the simple FACT that Brady is throwing the footballs and making decisions on the field, regardless of that Belichick has no choice but to put Brady in when Bledsoe got hurt, heck when Bledsoe got healthy he put him back in lol. Josh McDaniels deserves almost as much credit as Belichick, and will you stop with the surrounding him with guys that “Want to play” and motivated, that might not have anything to do with Bill and everything to do with wanting to play with Brady! Either way your an Eagles guy, when it comes to knowing all about the Pats your a side dish that nobody ordered.
<<< your a side dish that nobody ordered. >>>
The Belichick and Brady partnership is one of the greatest stories in football history, and I'll friggin' comment about it any time I want, whether you like it or not.
Fair enough but fall back just a little bit on Belichick 🙄
@1951WheatiesPremium said:
And to get back to the thread, as a Giants fan, I’d hate to be starting another season in a hole. For many reasons. And yet, already there’s some problems arising.
It sounds like Shepherd could/will be fine (though lost time and reps still hurt) but losing Golden Tate for 4 weeks and Corey Coleman for the season is just brutal. Still, with a revamped line and Saquon Barkley I’m optimistic that we will still be able to muster some points.
Defensively, they’re young and unproven. There is some existing talent on the roster and the drafted players are anybody’s guess. I’m hopeful that some of the guys I like last year - Lorenzo Carter, BJ Hill - can get better.
We’re not going to be some juggernaut at all but I am hopeful that the Giants will win a few of these close games they lost last year and make the season interesting. Either way, it will be fun to watch Eli Manning finish his Giant career (as I think that’s the case short of a Super Bowl win) and if the season begins terribly we’ll find out about the new kid.
I think Dallas, Bills, Bucs, Skins are the first four games.
Should be fun...
Go Giants
Golden Tate, suffice to say was a disappointment with the Eagles last season. Maybe you'll have better luck with him.
As you know the Giants finished in the NFC East basement last season with a 5-11 record, and actually had more wins on the road than at home.
I haven't begun following the Giants that closely yet, but I can't see right now how they will markedly improve this season. I would guess 5-11 again, perhaps 6-10.
True but they played many close games and lead the division in scoring last year, and made further tangible and needed improvements to the offensive line for this year. I am in the small camp of people that believes that those 5 guys win you the title as much as the quarterback, if not more.
I’ll go back, once again, to the fact that not a single player who protected Eli Manning two years ago has a starting job anywhere in the NFL, with several not rostered.
Nate Solder
Wil Hernandez
John Halapio
Kevin Zeitler
Mike Remmers
I’m not big on rankings for linemen but with the exception of Halapio these guys are all pretty highly rated and ranked players and are a massive upgrade to what had been there prior to Dave Gettleman’s arrival.
Again, I’m not saying they’re a contender. Just saying there reason for me to believe they’ll be better than last year.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
Truth is that Tom Brady is like MJ. Both are widely regarded as THE REASON why the Bulls and Patriots have all their rings (as far as players are concerned, not coaches)
Yogi Berra was just a very good player on great teams, but no where near the status of an MJ or Tom Brady.
Yogi takes a serious back seat to both MJ and Brady.
Sorry Yogi. It's over.
Everyone knows that silly. Tim was tongue in cheek I’m thinking...😂
Well. Based on his response, I don't think his tongue was in cheek.
Right on track with the getting defensive about MY tongue in cheek comment. It’s a 100% accurate statement that ALL Yankee fans have 50/50 split of cocky and defensive. #cocky/defensive/Yankee fan
Yogi Berra is an icon of sport, a 3 time MVP, Hall of Famer and someone who everyone who follows sport still knows who he is almost 50 years after he played his last game. He is quite literally one of the most recognizable names of the 20th century. He’s first or second in just about everything in World Series history.
Did they ever base a cartoon bear on MJ or Tom Brady? Do either of those guys have any lasting quotes that your MOTHER would know? (Caps emphasizing a lady who may not follow sport, not anything offensive).
Ask anyone walking down the street if they’ve heard of those three guys and you won’t get a ‘no’ on any.
PS - You’re completely off on Brady; I don’t know a SINGLE Patriots fan out there who would fail to credit the role and contributions of Bill Bellichek. Not one. Paul, you can correct me if I’m wrong.
Ok let’s talk “Icon” you can ask every single human being in the world right now and more of them know Tom Brady than Yogi Berra. That’s another FACT that’s not even remotely debatable
I completely agree about that FACT, Paul. Don’t know how I come off as cocky - at all. We’re not talking about Thurman Munson, Elston Howard, Bill Dickey, etc.
It’s Yogi Berra - one of the nicest, most gentle, philanthropic men to ever walk the planet. His personality was ENORMOUS. Not to mention a truly great player. Universally revered and admired as a winner, a Good Samaritan and a tremendous representative of the sport of baseball.
Yogi Bear
Mr. YooHoo
‘It ain’t over til it’s over!’ or ‘It gets late early around here’
I never once put down Brady OR MJ at any time in this thread.
I didn’t say you were being cocky here, I’m generalizing that with all Yankee fans but never mind that Tim, please point out where I ever said anything negative about Poor little ‘ole Yogi? The guy was everything you said and more, everyone loved him and rightfully so.
Huh?
It’s right there!
All good, Paul. I’m a Yankee fan and you’re a Sox fan; I know it’s hard not to hate us. I’m convinced it’s taught in Boston schools, along with History of basketball players from French Lick and Bobby Orr: Hockey Jesus
Big series once again starts tonight.
Enjoy the games.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
I can't believe there's even a discussion about Tom Brady. Without a doubt, Tom Brady is the greatest football player that will ever live period. The guy looks like he could play ten more years. He could end up with 8 or 9 rings.
This whole Brady Bilichick argument is silly. First of all it was a no brainer playing Brady over Bledsoe. Brady is the biggest reason for the Pat's success and Bill is a very good coach. And @stevek PLEASE stop putting Doug P. up there with the great one's...….PLEASE. Eagles will finish 8-8 this year behind Dallas and the Redskins.
As far as the Brady/Yogi debate. I think all sports fans would know them equally well. Non sports fans would know Brady better because he is more recent.
@perkdog said:
Without Brady the pats don’t win 6 Super Bowls, without Brady they don’t go to 9 Super Bowls. 100% FACT and it’s not even remotely debatable
You Patriots fans still don't get it about Belichick. Without Belichick, the chances are basically 100% that the Patriots never draft Brady to begin with. Even if there was an infinitesimal chance that the Patriots did draft Brady, chances are that another head coach would have cut him during the pre-season or certainly Brady would have likely never developed into a super star.
That's just for starters. Belichick superbly surrounds Brady every season with players who are motivated and hungry to win a championship. Smart players as well who can be coached up. And it's extremely rare that Belichick gets outcoached in a game as Doug Pederson did to him two Super Bowls ago.
Those are the facts and it amazes me that hard headed Patriots fans to this day, they overall dislike Belichick the GOAT so much that they can't acknowledge the obvious.
The Patriots are a slight favorite to win the upcoming Super Bowl, and it isn't because they have a QB who will be 42 years old when the season begins. Yes, Brady is an important part of the reason for the Patriots being a favorite, but it is mainly because of Bill Belichick.
Steve you keep dodging the simple FACT that Brady is throwing the footballs and making decisions on the field, regardless of that Belichick has no choice but to put Brady in when Bledsoe got hurt, heck when Bledsoe got healthy he put him back in lol. Josh McDaniels deserves almost as much credit as Belichick, and will you stop with the surrounding him with guys that “Want to play” and motivated, that might not have anything to do with Bill and everything to do with wanting to play with Brady! Either way your an Eagles guy, when it comes to knowing all about the Pats your a side dish that nobody ordered.
<<< your a side dish that nobody ordered. >>>
The Belichick and Brady partnership is one of the greatest stories in football history, and I'll friggin' comment about it any time I want, whether you like it or not.
Fair enough but fall back just a little bit on Belichick 🙄
@1951WheatiesPremium said:
And to get back to the thread, as a Giants fan, I’d hate to be starting another season in a hole. For many reasons. And yet, already there’s some problems arising.
It sounds like Shepherd could/will be fine (though lost time and reps still hurt) but losing Golden Tate for 4 weeks and Corey Coleman for the season is just brutal. Still, with a revamped line and Saquon Barkley I’m optimistic that we will still be able to muster some points.
Defensively, they’re young and unproven. There is some existing talent on the roster and the drafted players are anybody’s guess. I’m hopeful that some of the guys I like last year - Lorenzo Carter, BJ Hill - can get better.
We’re not going to be some juggernaut at all but I am hopeful that the Giants will win a few of these close games they lost last year and make the season interesting. Either way, it will be fun to watch Eli Manning finish his Giant career (as I think that’s the case short of a Super Bowl win) and if the season begins terribly we’ll find out about the new kid.
I think Dallas, Bills, Bucs, Skins are the first four games.
Should be fun...
Go Giants
Golden Tate, suffice to say was a disappointment with the Eagles last season. Maybe you'll have better luck with him.
As you know the Giants finished in the NFC East basement last season with a 5-11 record, and actually had more wins on the road than at home.
I haven't begun following the Giants that closely yet, but I can't see right now how they will markedly improve this season. I would guess 5-11 again, perhaps 6-10.
True but they played many close games and lead the division in scoring last year, and made further tangible and needed improvements to the offensive line for this year. I am in the small camp of people that believes that those 5 guys win you the title as much as the quarterback, if not more.
I’ll go back, once again, to the fact that not a single player who protected Eli Manning two years ago has a starting job anywhere in the NFL, with several not rostered.
Nate Solder
Wil Hernandez
John Halapio
Kevin Zeitler
Mike Remmers
I’m not big on rankings for linemen but with the exception of Halapio these guys are all pretty highly rated and ranked players and are a massive upgrade to what had been there prior to Dave Gettleman’s arrival.
Again, I’m not saying they’re a contender. Just saying there reason for me to believe they’ll be better than last year.
<<< True but they played many close games >>>
No offense intended at all, because believe me, i've suffered thru an awful lot of losing Eagles teams...but that comment is always an excuse by losing teams.
Many if not most all losing NFL teams, windup losing a number of close games throughout the season. With the "parity" in the NFL, the difference between the winners and losers often are the close games.
I'm not a Giants hater. Never have been, never will be. I've got way too much respect for that franchise and NFC East opponent. After this year's draft, i do think that finally the Giants are headed in the right direction, no matter how this season turns out.
@1951WheatiesPremium said:
And to get back to the thread, as a Giants fan, I’d hate to be starting another season in a hole. For many reasons. And yet, already there’s some problems arising.
It sounds like Shepherd could/will be fine (though lost time and reps still hurt) but losing Golden Tate for 4 weeks and Corey Coleman for the season is just brutal. Still, with a revamped line and Saquon Barkley I’m optimistic that we will still be able to muster some points.
Defensively, they’re young and unproven. There is some existing talent on the roster and the drafted players are anybody’s guess. I’m hopeful that some of the guys I like last year - Lorenzo Carter, BJ Hill - can get better.
We’re not going to be some juggernaut at all but I am hopeful that the Giants will win a few of these close games they lost last year and make the season interesting. Either way, it will be fun to watch Eli Manning finish his Giant career (as I think that’s the case short of a Super Bowl win) and if the season begins terribly we’ll find out about the new kid.
I think Dallas, Bills, Bucs, Skins are the first four games.
Should be fun...
Go Giants
Golden Tate, suffice to say was a disappointment with the Eagles last season. Maybe you'll have better luck with him.
As you know the Giants finished in the NFC East basement last season with a 5-11 record, and actually had more wins on the road than at home.
I haven't begun following the Giants that closely yet, but I can't see right now how they will markedly improve this season. I would guess 5-11 again, perhaps 6-10.
True but they played many close games and lead the division in scoring last year, and made further tangible and needed improvements to the offensive line for this year. I am in the small camp of people that believes that those 5 guys win you the title as much as the quarterback, if not more.
I’ll go back, once again, to the fact that not a single player who protected Eli Manning two years ago has a starting job anywhere in the NFL, with several not rostered.
Nate Solder
Wil Hernandez
John Halapio
Kevin Zeitler
Mike Remmers
I’m not big on rankings for linemen but with the exception of Halapio these guys are all pretty highly rated and ranked players and are a massive upgrade to what had been there prior to Dave Gettleman’s arrival.
Again, I’m not saying they’re a contender. Just saying there reason for me to believe they’ll be better than last year.
<<< True but they played many close games >>>
No offense intended at all, because believe me, i've suffered thru an awful lot of losing Eagles teams...but that comment is always an excuse by losing teams.
Many if not most all losing NFL teams, windup losing a number of close games throughout the season. With the "parity" in the NFL, the difference between the winners and losers often are the close games.
I'm not a Giants hater. Never have been, never will be. I've got way too much respect for that franchise and NFC East opponent. After this year's draft, i do think that finally the Giants are headed in the right direction, no matter how this season turns out.
The Chiefs offense should be even better than last year. Mecole Hardman has been impressive in camp
and with Mahomes having a year of experience under his belt they should be pretty much unstoppable.
Defense should be much improved. Looks like anything less than a Super Bowl appearance will be a bust.
Truth is that Tom Brady is like MJ. Both are widely regarded as THE REASON why the Bulls and Patriots have all their rings (as far as players are concerned, not coaches)
Yogi Berra was just a very good player on great teams, but no where near the status of an MJ or Tom Brady.
Yogi takes a serious back seat to both MJ and Brady.
Sorry Yogi. It's over.
Everyone knows that silly. Tim was tongue in cheek I’m thinking...😂
Well. Based on his response, I don't think his tongue was in cheek.
Right on track with the getting defensive about MY tongue in cheek comment. It’s a 100% accurate statement that ALL Yankee fans have 50/50 split of cocky and defensive. #cocky/defensive/Yankee fan
Yogi Berra is an icon of sport, a 3 time MVP, Hall of Famer and someone who everyone who follows sport still knows who he is almost 50 years after he played his last game. He is quite literally one of the most recognizable names of the 20th century. He’s first or second in just about everything in World Series history.
Did they ever base a cartoon bear on MJ or Tom Brady? Do either of those guys have any lasting quotes that your MOTHER would know? (Caps emphasizing a lady who may not follow sport, not anything offensive).
Ask anyone walking down the street if they’ve heard of those three guys and you won’t get a ‘no’ on any.
PS - You’re completely off on Brady; I don’t know a SINGLE Patriots fan out there who would fail to credit the role and contributions of Bill Bellichek. Not one. Paul, you can correct me if I’m wrong.
Ok let’s talk “Icon” you can ask every single human being in the world right now and more of them know Tom Brady than Yogi Berra. That’s another FACT that’s not even remotely debatable
I completely agree about that FACT, Paul. Don’t know how I come off as cocky - at all. We’re not talking about Thurman Munson, Elston Howard, Bill Dickey, etc.
It’s Yogi Berra - one of the nicest, most gentle, philanthropic men to ever walk the planet. His personality was ENORMOUS. Not to mention a truly great player. Universally revered and admired as a winner, a Good Samaritan and a tremendous representative of the sport of baseball.
Yogi Bear
Mr. YooHoo
‘It ain’t over til it’s over!’ or ‘It gets late early around here’
I never once put down Brady OR MJ at any time in this thread.
I didn’t say you were being cocky here, I’m generalizing that with all Yankee fans but never mind that Tim, please point out where I ever said anything negative about Poor little ‘ole Yogi? The guy was everything you said and more, everyone loved him and rightfully so.
Huh?
It’s right there!
All good, Paul. I’m a Yankee fan and you’re a Sox fan; I know it’s hard not to hate us. I’m convinced it’s taught in Boston schools, along with History of basketball players from French Lick and Bobby Orr: Hockey Jesus
Big series once again starts tonight.
Enjoy the games.
Huh???? What are you talking about??Seriously you re read it I said “Right on track with getting defensive” NOT Cocky lol. And yes it’s all good Tim, just basic banter. Enjoy the game as well 🍻
@Darin said:
The Chiefs offense should be even better than last year. Mecole Hardman has been impressive in camp
and with Mahomes having a year of experience under his belt they should be pretty much unstoppable.
Defense should be much improved. Looks like anything less than a Super Bowl appearance will be a bust.
You have little concerns about Andy Reid and his coaching staff ?
You feel the talent can over come his weaknesses ?
Or you feel he is a solid enough coach to get the job done ?
In the next 8 years when the Chiefs have won 4 or 5 Super Bowls all those questions will have answered themselves.
@Darin said:
The Chiefs offense should be even better than last year. Mecole Hardman has been impressive in camp
and with Mahomes having a year of experience under his belt they should be pretty much unstoppable.
Defense should be much improved. Looks like anything less than a Super Bowl appearance will be a bust.
You have little concerns about Andy Reid and his coaching staff ?
You feel the talent can over come his weaknesses ?
Or you feel he is a solid enough coach to get the job done ?
In the next 8 years when the Chiefs have won 4 or 5 Super Bowls all those questions will have answered themselves.
Pats vs Chiefs in AFC Championship game part 2?????
coaches receive far too much credit. i guess i'm still stuck in NBA mode, cuz here's a few examples.
if Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, and Kobe Bean were nowhere to be found on Phil Jackson's rosters, i promise you he's not the zen master.
If Kawhi Leonard didn't play for the Raptors last season, very few outside of Canada & the NBA realm would have even known who their head coach was...........unless Drake was giving him a deep tissue massage on the sideline.
Doc Rivers is wildly considered to be one of the best hc's in the association, but since coming to L.A. his Clippers teams have been reduced to punching bags for a perennially loaded squad like the Warriors. well, this summer they added two of the best players the league has to offer -- Leonard and Paul George -- and Golden State lost one in Durant. please compare and contrast next season.
but since this is an NFL thread and since this duo always seems to be injected into the convo....
all you need to know is what Bill Belichick's head coaching record looked like prior to Tom Brady and what it has looked like since. in his 5 seasons at Cleveland, BB was a combined 8 games under .500 and won one playoff game. more of the same in 2000 when New England went 5-11 and obviously missed the playoffs during his first season as their coach.
then what happened in 2001?
oh that's right. that Brady guy became the quarterback. all of a sudden, Belichick went from a combined 14 games under .500 and one playoff win over the course of 6 seasons to winning 6 mother effing super bowls over the next 18.
one playoff win in 6 seasons.
then a ring every third season on average for the next 18.
all of the cool kids seem to be saying this, and now it's my turn........................case closed, and it's not even debatable.
@perkdog said:
Nice dissertation Galaxy, hopefully SteveK will learn something from it. 😜
Can't wait to hear stevek's response to galaxy's post. This should be fun.
Don’t worry it will be spun around n a few different directions with his reasoning on how Bill Belichick is the reason why all these no name WR’s that he surrounded Brady with over the years excelled because HE motivated them to be winners. 😂
<<< all you need to know is what Bill Belichick's head coaching record looked like prior to Tom Brady and what it has looked like since. in his 5 seasons at Cleveland, BB was a combined 8 games under .500 and won one playoff game. more of the same in 2000 when New England went 5-11 and obviously missed the playoffs during his first season as their coach. >>>
This is an old convoluted narrative from those who don't fully understand the genius of Bill Belichick.
No genius in a profession such as NFL football is instantaneous. It takes time to develop. That being said, Belichick's propensity for genius was noticed by many in the football world when he was with Cleveland.
Geniuses still need hard work and time, and support to create their magnificence. Thomas Edison needed an extensive lab, countless trials and errors, and a great staff behind him to finally invent the light bulb. Same with Oppenheimer and the Manhattan Project, etc.
Tom Brady wasn't some free agent superstar when Belichick obtained him. He was a sixth round draft pick that Belichick coached-up to become the great player that he is. Want proof? Tom Brady has stated exactly that a number of times.
Belichick was just rounding to genius form right about the time he drafted Brady. Simply a perfect combination of both in the right place at the right time.
Without question, it is not debatable that Tom Brady would have had close to the amount of success that he's had without Bill Belichick. Again, Brady states this firmly without equivocation.
Would Belichick have had the same success without Tom Brady? Now that is speculation one way or the other. However whatever the case may be in that regard, there is no doubt that Belichick would have been very successful with the Patriots.
The interesting premise is Belichick without Brady, and him coaching up some other QB with more athleticism, could Belichick have actually been more successful over the years? That is a plausible premise...and guaranteed to get Brady lovers here even more incensed. 😆
@stevek said:
<<< all you need to know is what Bill Belichick's head coaching record looked like prior to Tom Brady and what it has looked like since. in his 5 seasons at Cleveland, BB was a combined 8 games under .500 and won one playoff game. more of the same in 2000 when New England went 5-11 and obviously missed the playoffs during his first season as their coach. >>>
This is an old convoluted narrative from those who don't fully understand the genius of Bill Belichick.
No genius in a profession such as NFL football is instantaneous. It takes time to develop. That being said, Belichick's propensity for genius was noticed by many in the football world when he was with Cleveland.
Geniuses still need hard work and time, and support to create their magnificence. Thomas Edison needed an extensive lab, countless trials and errors, and a great staff behind him to finally invent the light bulb. Same with Oppenheimer and the Manhattan Project, etc.
Tom Brady wasn't some free agent superstar when Belichick obtained him. He was a sixth round draft pick that Belichick coached-up to become the great player that he is. Want proof? Tom Brady has stated exactly that a number of times.
Belichick was just rounding to genius form right about the time he drafted Brady. Simply a perfect combination of both in the right place at the right time.
Without question, it is not debatable that Tom Brady would have had close to the amount of success that he's had without Bill Belichick. Again, Brady states this firmly without equivocation.
Would Belichick have had the same success without Tom Brady? Now that is speculation one way or the other. However whatever the case may be in that regard, there is no doubt that Belichick would have been very successful with the Patriots.
The interesting premise is Belichick without Brady, and him coaching up some other QB with more athleticism, could Belichick have actually been more successful over the years? That is a plausible premise...and guaranteed to get Brady lovers here even more incensed. 😆
What evidence is there of Bill Belichick being a genius ?
For example, we know that the west coast offense was designed by Bill Walsh.
With Joe Montana at the helm, you could easily say that Joe Montana benefitted from
the genius of Bill Walsh.
What has Belichick done to support your genius theory ?
What have other players or coaches said to support this Belichick genius theory ?
I played football in grades 7 thru 12. Also played fraternity intramural touch football at Penn State. So i'm familiar with playing the game.
I've watched countless numbers of college and pro football games. So that gives me a perspective on different players and coaches.
One thing I've always thoroughly enjoyed, even as a kid, was the complex strategies involved in the game of football. Most interesting and I still enjoy it to this day.
About geniuses. They say that the difference between a smart person and a genius, is that you look at some new idea from a smart person and say I could have thought of that. But a new idea from a genius, and you say I could have never thought of that.
I've listened to countless coaches being interviewed over the years, and usually it's the same old, same old. Even if it's a new idea, it's like i could have thought of that. However I listen to Bill Belichick speaking about football, and it's quite obvious that he is in the genius category. Some of the ideas he brings to the table, truly amaze me with the brilliance.
Sometimes though genius can interfere with common sense at times. Not with Bill Belichick. He is also a master psychologist with his players. Saying the right things at the right time to specific players to get them to perform their best. But if the players are incorrigible, then Belichick gets rid of them quickly.
So from Belichick's many interviews on Youtube, to the times he's been mic'd on the field and how he handles that, it's perfectly clear to me that we're dealing with pure genius here. And of course his spectacular coaching record illustrates all that.
This run of winning that the Patriots have had, in my view surpasses any other run in modern team sports, including those runs of winning by the Yankees in the Ruth era and Mantle era. To do what Belichick has done in the era of parity and a salary cap, truly is remarkable.
It's just too bad that some Patriots fans are so in love with Tom Brady, that they can't comprehend and don't wish to acknowledge the genius of Bill Belichick.
Nothing wrong with being a big fan of Tom Brady, I'm a fan myself. Frankly, i don't see how someone can be an NFL fan and not be a fan of Tom Brady. Even when he beats your team, it should be appreciated that Brady has been great for the game. Even though Brady has not been the most important factor in the Patriots amazing run of success, because that honor clearly belongs to Bill Belichick.
Belichick is a very good coach, but without Brady the Pat's are not the great team they have been over all these years,
Case in point. Barry Switzer came in and won a SB with Dallas in 1995. Was Switzer a great coach or was it possibly all the great players that Dallas had that had just won SB's in 92 & 93 with Jimmy Johnson.
@DIMEMAN said:
Belichick is a very good coach, but without Brady the Pat's are not the great team they have been over all these years,
Case in point. Barry Switzer came in and won a SB with Dallas in 1995. Was Switzer a great coach or was it possibly all the great players that Dallas had that had just won SB's in 92 & 93 with Jimmy Johnson.
The great players, but it was an excellent head coach Jimmy Johnson who put together that team and handed it off to Barry Switzer.
Frankly, that's not really a good analogy, although at first glance it may appear to be.
@DIMEMAN said:
Belichick is a very good coach, but without Brady the Pat's are not the great team they have been over all these years,
Case in point. Barry Switzer came in and won a SB with Dallas in 1995. Was Switzer a great coach or was it possibly all the great players that Dallas had that had just won SB's in 92 & 93 with Jimmy Johnson.
The great players, but it was an excellent head coach Jimmy Johnson who put together that team and handed it off to Barry Switzer.
Frankly, that's not really a good analogy, although at first glance it may appear to be.
All I am saying is that if you have great players....all you need is a good coach that won't keep you from winning.
@DIMEMAN said:
Belichick is a very good coach, but without Brady the Pat's are not the great team they have been over all these years,
Case in point. Barry Switzer came in and won a SB with Dallas in 1995. Was Switzer a great coach or was it possibly all the great players that Dallas had that had just won SB's in 92 & 93 with Jimmy Johnson.
The great players, but it was an excellent head coach Jimmy Johnson who put together that team and handed it off to Barry Switzer.
Frankly, that's not really a good analogy, although at first glance it may appear to be.
All I am saying is that if you have great players....all you need is a good coach that won't keep you from winning.
I see your point Jon. I just think it's a much better point in MLB or the NBA rather than the NFL.
Look at the list of Super Bowl winning head coaches. The vast majority of them were great head coaches who put their teams together. Switzer was just the result of an egomaniac owner who fires his head coach after he wins two Super Bowls.
Slip in Jimmy Garrappollo and and Jacoby Brissett and see how well the Pats did without Tom.
That’s how you can get a look at how Bill Bellichek and Barry Switzer don’t belong in the same post unless it’s
Average is to excellent as Switzer is to Bellichek.
Still think Tom means much more but having a bad record while coaching the Browns was like drinking beer in college for the last 20 years.
You missed my point if you in any way thought I was saying Switzer was any good as a coach. He did OK at OK, but then again it was talented players there too.
By far the worst, very worst, did I say by far, was Steve Spurrier. I mean he didn't even know some basic NFL rules. Spurrier brought incompetence to NFL head coaching the likes of which i have never seen before or since.
That being said, Barry Switzer is certainly in the basement of NFL head coaches.
That being said, Barry Switzer is certainly in the basement of NFL head coaches.
There are only two coaches in the basement of NFL head coaches.
One from the New England Patriots. Rod Rust was 1-15 with the Patriots for just one season, back in 1990. His Pats lost all but one game in his lone season at the helm, barely defeating the equally woeful Colts 16-14. He was bounced in favor of Dick MacPherson, who didn't fare any better.
The one who has him beat is from the Houston Oilers back in 1972-73.
Bill Peterson was 1-18 over two seasons. Although he was a legend at Florida State, Bill Peterson was a disaster in the NFL. The one win in 19 games was only a part of it.
To hear his players tell it (or see old NFL Films clips of him on the sidelines), Peterson just did not have a solid grasp of what was going on during gameday.
How about Ray Handley and Rich Kotite?
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That being said, Barry Switzer is certainly in the basement of NFL head coaches.
There are only two coaches in the basement of NFL head coaches.
One from the New England Patriots. Rod Rust was 1-15 with the Patriots for just one season, back in 1990. His Pats lost all but one game in his lone season at the helm, barely defeating the equally woeful Colts 16-14. He was bounced in favor of Dick MacPherson, who didn't fare any better.
The one who has him beat is from the Houston Oilers back in 1972-73.
Bill Peterson was 1-18 over two seasons. Although he was a legend at Florida State, Bill Peterson was a disaster in the NFL. The one win in 19 games was only a part of it.
To hear his players tell it (or see old NFL Films clips of him on the sidelines), Peterson just did not have a solid grasp of what was going on during gameday.
How about Ray Handley and Rich Kotite?
Yes, they were both horrible. But I believe the two I mentioned are the only NFL coaches with only 1 win. But yes, those two were pretty awful as well.
I know his record is better than these, but Jason Garrett isn't any better at coaching a game. His players continue to bail him out a lot of the time. That's why when it comes to crunch time we are at a disadvantage!
Comments
Golden Tate, suffice to say was a disappointment with the Eagles last season. Maybe you'll have better luck with him.
As you know the Giants finished in the NFC East basement last season with a 5-11 record, and actually had more wins on the road than at home.
I haven't begun following the Giants that closely yet, but I can't see right now how they will markedly improve this season. I would guess 5-11 again, perhaps 6-10.
Today I can proudly say that my favorite team (Denver) has a better record than all of the other teams in the NFL for the 2019 season.
Today no other team has a better record!!!!!!
Fair enough but fall back just a little bit on Belichick 🙄
True but they played many close games and lead the division in scoring last year, and made further tangible and needed improvements to the offensive line for this year. I am in the small camp of people that believes that those 5 guys win you the title as much as the quarterback, if not more.
I’ll go back, once again, to the fact that not a single player who protected Eli Manning two years ago has a starting job anywhere in the NFL, with several not rostered.
Nate Solder
Wil Hernandez
John Halapio
Kevin Zeitler
Mike Remmers
I’m not big on rankings for linemen but with the exception of Halapio these guys are all pretty highly rated and ranked players and are a massive upgrade to what had been there prior to Dave Gettleman’s arrival.
Again, I’m not saying they’re a contender. Just saying there reason for me to believe they’ll be better than last year.
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Huh?
It’s right there!
All good, Paul. I’m a Yankee fan and you’re a Sox fan; I know it’s hard not to hate us. I’m convinced it’s taught in Boston schools, along with History of basketball players from French Lick and Bobby Orr: Hockey Jesus
Big series once again starts tonight.
Enjoy the games.
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I can't believe there's even a discussion about Tom Brady. Without a doubt, Tom Brady is the greatest football player that will ever live period. The guy looks like he could play ten more years. He could end up with 8 or 9 rings.
This whole Brady Bilichick argument is silly. First of all it was a no brainer playing Brady over Bledsoe. Brady is the biggest reason for the Pat's success and Bill is a very good coach. And @stevek PLEASE stop putting Doug P. up there with the great one's...….PLEASE. Eagles will finish 8-8 this year behind Dallas and the Redskins.
As far as the Brady/Yogi debate. I think all sports fans would know them equally well. Non sports fans would know Brady better because he is more recent.
Too late, i'm pot committed.
<<< True but they played many close games >>>
No offense intended at all, because believe me, i've suffered thru an awful lot of losing Eagles teams...but that comment is always an excuse by losing teams.
Many if not most all losing NFL teams, windup losing a number of close games throughout the season. With the "parity" in the NFL, the difference between the winners and losers often are the close games.
I'm not a Giants hater. Never have been, never will be. I've got way too much respect for that franchise and NFC East opponent. After this year's draft, i do think that finally the Giants are headed in the right direction, no matter how this season turns out.
@stevek
I agree with you about NFL parity. Close games and how you play in them determines a season and whether it’s a success or a failure.
I’m not going to break down their record or anything like that.
Just saying that they will be better - bank in it. And I can say that mostly because it would be hard to be worse.
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The Chiefs offense should be even better than last year. Mecole Hardman has been impressive in camp
and with Mahomes having a year of experience under his belt they should be pretty much unstoppable.
Defense should be much improved. Looks like anything less than a Super Bowl appearance will be a bust.
Huh???? What are you talking about??Seriously you re read it I said “Right on track with getting defensive” NOT Cocky lol. And yes it’s all good Tim, just basic banter. Enjoy the game as well 🍻
In the next 8 years when the Chiefs have won 4 or 5 Super Bowls all those questions will have answered themselves.
Pats vs Chiefs in AFC Championship game part 2?????
coaches receive far too much credit. i guess i'm still stuck in NBA mode, cuz here's a few examples.
if Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, and Kobe Bean were nowhere to be found on Phil Jackson's rosters, i promise you he's not the zen master.
If Kawhi Leonard didn't play for the Raptors last season, very few outside of Canada & the NBA realm would have even known who their head coach was...........unless Drake was giving him a deep tissue massage on the sideline.
Doc Rivers is wildly considered to be one of the best hc's in the association, but since coming to L.A. his Clippers teams have been reduced to punching bags for a perennially loaded squad like the Warriors. well, this summer they added two of the best players the league has to offer -- Leonard and Paul George -- and Golden State lost one in Durant. please compare and contrast next season.
but since this is an NFL thread and since this duo always seems to be injected into the convo....
all you need to know is what Bill Belichick's head coaching record looked like prior to Tom Brady and what it has looked like since. in his 5 seasons at Cleveland, BB was a combined 8 games under .500 and won one playoff game. more of the same in 2000 when New England went 5-11 and obviously missed the playoffs during his first season as their coach.
then what happened in 2001?
oh that's right. that Brady guy became the quarterback. all of a sudden, Belichick went from a combined 14 games under .500 and one playoff win over the course of 6 seasons to winning 6 mother effing super bowls over the next 18.
one playoff win in 6 seasons.
then a ring every third season on average for the next 18.
all of the cool kids seem to be saying this, and now it's my turn........................case closed, and it's not even debatable.
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Nice dissertation Galaxy, hopefully SteveK will learn something from it. 😜
Don’t worry it will be spun around n a few different directions with his reasoning on how Bill Belichick is the reason why all these no name WR’s that he surrounded Brady with over the years excelled because HE motivated them to be winners. 😂
<<< all you need to know is what Bill Belichick's head coaching record looked like prior to Tom Brady and what it has looked like since. in his 5 seasons at Cleveland, BB was a combined 8 games under .500 and won one playoff game. more of the same in 2000 when New England went 5-11 and obviously missed the playoffs during his first season as their coach. >>>
This is an old convoluted narrative from those who don't fully understand the genius of Bill Belichick.
No genius in a profession such as NFL football is instantaneous. It takes time to develop. That being said, Belichick's propensity for genius was noticed by many in the football world when he was with Cleveland.
Geniuses still need hard work and time, and support to create their magnificence. Thomas Edison needed an extensive lab, countless trials and errors, and a great staff behind him to finally invent the light bulb. Same with Oppenheimer and the Manhattan Project, etc.
Tom Brady wasn't some free agent superstar when Belichick obtained him. He was a sixth round draft pick that Belichick coached-up to become the great player that he is. Want proof? Tom Brady has stated exactly that a number of times.
Belichick was just rounding to genius form right about the time he drafted Brady. Simply a perfect combination of both in the right place at the right time.
Without question, it is not debatable that Tom Brady would have had close to the amount of success that he's had without Bill Belichick. Again, Brady states this firmly without equivocation.
Would Belichick have had the same success without Tom Brady? Now that is speculation one way or the other. However whatever the case may be in that regard, there is no doubt that Belichick would have been very successful with the Patriots.
The interesting premise is Belichick without Brady, and him coaching up some other QB with more athleticism, could Belichick have actually been more successful over the years? That is a plausible premise...and guaranteed to get Brady lovers here even more incensed. 😆
I played football in grades 7 thru 12. Also played fraternity intramural touch football at Penn State. So i'm familiar with playing the game.
I've watched countless numbers of college and pro football games. So that gives me a perspective on different players and coaches.
One thing I've always thoroughly enjoyed, even as a kid, was the complex strategies involved in the game of football. Most interesting and I still enjoy it to this day.
About geniuses. They say that the difference between a smart person and a genius, is that you look at some new idea from a smart person and say I could have thought of that. But a new idea from a genius, and you say I could have never thought of that.
I've listened to countless coaches being interviewed over the years, and usually it's the same old, same old. Even if it's a new idea, it's like i could have thought of that. However I listen to Bill Belichick speaking about football, and it's quite obvious that he is in the genius category. Some of the ideas he brings to the table, truly amaze me with the brilliance.
Sometimes though genius can interfere with common sense at times. Not with Bill Belichick. He is also a master psychologist with his players. Saying the right things at the right time to specific players to get them to perform their best. But if the players are incorrigible, then Belichick gets rid of them quickly.
So from Belichick's many interviews on Youtube, to the times he's been mic'd on the field and how he handles that, it's perfectly clear to me that we're dealing with pure genius here. And of course his spectacular coaching record illustrates all that.
This run of winning that the Patriots have had, in my view surpasses any other run in modern team sports, including those runs of winning by the Yankees in the Ruth era and Mantle era. To do what Belichick has done in the era of parity and a salary cap, truly is remarkable.
It's just too bad that some Patriots fans are so in love with Tom Brady, that they can't comprehend and don't wish to acknowledge the genius of Bill Belichick.
Nothing wrong with being a big fan of Tom Brady, I'm a fan myself. Frankly, i don't see how someone can be an NFL fan and not be a fan of Tom Brady. Even when he beats your team, it should be appreciated that Brady has been great for the game. Even though Brady has not been the most important factor in the Patriots amazing run of success, because that honor clearly belongs to Bill Belichick.
Belichick is a very good coach, but without Brady the Pat's are not the great team they have been over all these years,
Case in point. Barry Switzer came in and won a SB with Dallas in 1995. Was Switzer a great coach or was it possibly all the great players that Dallas had that had just won SB's in 92 & 93 with Jimmy Johnson.
The great players, but it was an excellent head coach Jimmy Johnson who put together that team and handed it off to Barry Switzer.
Frankly, that's not really a good analogy, although at first glance it may appear to be.
All I am saying is that if you have great players....all you need is a good coach that won't keep you from winning.
I see your point Jon. I just think it's a much better point in MLB or the NBA rather than the NFL.
Look at the list of Super Bowl winning head coaches. The vast majority of them were great head coaches who put their teams together. Switzer was just the result of an egomaniac owner who fires his head coach after he wins two Super Bowls.
Two words:
Matt Cassell
Slip in Jimmy Garrappollo and and Jacoby Brissett and see how well the Pats did without Tom.
That’s how you can get a look at how Bill Bellichek and Barry Switzer don’t belong in the same post unless it’s
Average is to excellent as Switzer is to Bellichek.
Still think Tom means much more but having a bad record while coaching the Browns was like drinking beer in college for the last 20 years.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
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You missed my point if you in any way thought I was saying Switzer was any good as a coach. He did OK at OK, but then again it was talented players there too.
By far the worst, very worst, did I say by far, was Steve Spurrier. I mean he didn't even know some basic NFL rules. Spurrier brought incompetence to NFL head coaching the likes of which i have never seen before or since.
That being said, Barry Switzer is certainly in the basement of NFL head coaches.
How about Ray Handley and Rich Kotite?
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
I know his record is better than these, but Jason Garrett isn't any better at coaching a game. His players continue to bail him out a lot of the time. That's why when it comes to crunch time we are at a disadvantage!
Dick McPherson was up their with all time Patriots awful coaches too