Matte Proofs from Branch Mints
rmpsrpms
Posts: 1,956 ✭✭✭✭✭
I was contacted by a gentleman who says that he works for PCGS and that he owns "sets of Matte Proof coins from 1910 to 1917 from Philadelphia, Denver and San Francisco Mints and verified by PCGS". Disregarding the controversy over the 1917 proofs, I was under the impression that the Proof coins from this era were all struck at Philadelphia. However, I have an open mind, so I thought I'd post here to get any input on possible new discoveries of Branch Mint Proofs that may have been discovered recently and graded by PCGS. Does anyone know if this is the case? Would be very cool if true.
0
Comments
Color me extremely skeptical.
Closer to the truth.............." I submitted to PCGS what I believe to be branch mint matte proofs from 1910 to 1917. "
If he does work for PCGS I think his days are numbered.
It sounds like he has a nice start on an updated version of Walter Breen's encyclopedia.
+1
+100
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I have a 1911-D Lincoln Wheat cent that has some visual similarities to Philadelphia matte proofs. But I will have to locate it before I can take pictures.
This sounds like a scam.....If you decide to pursue it, let us know what transpires.... If it were me, I would just move on...Cheers, RickO
The story from the person who contacted you is not remotely credible. And how did he obtain your contact information?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I have owned a '15 and '16 Philly struck cents that had matte fields and faint remnants of die markers for both years. I believe that the proof dies may have been recycled for business strikes in those early years.
I don't think so ... especially when he says that they are "Matte Proofs."
There are instances, as with Buffalo Nickels, were distinguishing between Matte Proof and a business strike takes a fair amount of expertise. He might be looking at some well struck coins from the branch mints, but don't think that he has Matte Proofs from those facilities.
I don't have the perfect examples, but here is AN example.
1913 Type I Matte Proof
1913 Type I Business Strike
This is a fairly run of the mill business strike in MS-63. A higher grade example struck from a new set of dies would illustrate the situation better.
First of all, he is a liar and no gentleman. Do not trust him. Consider passing the information along to PCGS, and then have nothing to do with him.
No proof coins - sandblast, matte (minor), or brilliant - were made at any US Mint except Philadelphia. That was the only mint to have the required equipment.
Suggest you follow CaptHenway's idea, above.
If they were verified by PCGS as claimed, that means they would be slabbed. Have him forward pictures including cert #s.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/2819
Dang, I thought I had the only slabbed mint branch Matte proofs - all in NGC holders of course...
WS
One other little detail to ask this "expert:" How were "matte" and "sandblast" proofs made?
Hint: "Matte" proofs were only made for Lincolns 1909-1916 and Buffalos 1913-1916. "Sandblast" proofs were made of Saint-Gaudens and Pratt gold for 1908 and 1911-1915.
"Brilliant" proofs were made only from Barber-design dimes, quarters and halves.
And -- don't forget the "satin" gold proofs of 1909-1910.
It would likely be easier and more productive to just check the PCGS pop report. Of course, we already know the answer.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Here are images of a very deceptive circulation strike, top, and a proof, bottom. I think the only discernible difference between the two is the edge, which on the proof would be squared and prooflike. The circ strike would show the normal beveled edge and non-prooflike finish.
I've seen circ strikes being offered as proofs which were not from the Philly Mint but the branch mint stuff is new to me and would make his claim totally bogus. No way I'd trust this guy.
Thanks for all the inputs, which confirm what I thought I knew about these coins. I assumed that S and D mints did not have the medal presses needed to make Proofs, but was nice to have that confirmed as well. I wasn't interested in purchasing any of the guy's coins, just in knowing if what he was saying could be true. Seems not.
http://macrocoins.com
Give his name and contact info to PCGS. They might like to speak with him about misrepresentation of their trademark name, among other things.