Is your safe.....safe?
ScarsdaleCoin
Posts: 5,344 ✭✭✭✭✭
In speaking to a professional safe builder he asked me to reach out and remind folks that most T15 and T30 safes are quite inefficient in today’s world. And that safe you bought at the local store. Well that one can be opened in two minutes
https://youtu.be/2guvwQvElA8Jon Lerner - Scarsdale Coin - www.CoinHelp.com
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It comes down to any safe can be opened, it just depends on how much effort a thief wants to exert.
I suppose the real game plan is just to make it as difficult as possible.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Anything that weighs less than 1000 pounds or isn’t well concealed isn't really all that safe. One thing a safe is very good at is advertising where all the good stuff is. Let's face it. If we have the technology to build a safe, we also have the technology to open a safe. A good cutting torch or circular saw can zip through an impressive thickness of steel in seconds. A well-prepared thief will not be slowed down for long by a safe. Kids looking for drug money will bust the handles off and take the TV instead.
I live in a rural area where most of the farmers own heavy equipment. In reality, a person with a loader could smash trough a wall, wrap a chain around a safe, and be gone in 5 minutes or less. Those same people are usually welders and use a cutting torch on a weekly basis. Stuff like this isn't likely, but there is no reason they couldn't do it.
Better to view a safe as just one of several layers of security. First and foremost is discretion in conversations about what might be in your home. It's an unfortunate part of the hobby, but an important one. An alarm, camera, smoke detector, good neighbors, randomness in your day-to-day routine, not advertising that you're away on vacation, asking family members to keep their mouths shut, monitoring repairmen, using a PO box for sales and purchases.... all of it is important.
A SDB is inconvenient, and not perfectly safe either, but the best option for most people with valuable collections.
Empty safe in bedroom; coins in Tide box in garage.
Take the innards out of a 30" tube TV, and stash your goods there. You can't give away a tube TV. (We tried).
BU state quarter collection in the safe
If I am home...yes, my safe is safe.
A sign outside that reads “Guns don’t kill people, I kill people”.
Or perhaps “Home security provided by antique traps that will cut a man clean in half”.
Ha ha ha
Security and safes are always good things to think about, however, there is a significant difference between a sentry safe like the one in the video made with sheet metal and cement compared to a 1,000 lb Tl-30 safe with 1/4” or 3/8” steel around the entire safe. A TL-30 rated safe is rated by underwriters laboratory and is called a TL-30 because it is “tool resistant” for approximately 30 minutes.
https://standardscatalog.ul.com/standards/en/standard_687_15
That is just what I was thinking! From Happy Gilmore. Classic!
I use a two safe combination, the first safe is a Sentry, it sits inside of a Liberty gun safe. The gun safe has 3/8" Armor plate, and uses flat armor plates instead of the round bolts like you would see on most safes, the floor plate is bolted down on an the concrete floor, it was placed then a walk in closet was built around it. It's now a permanent fixture.
I learned that after a friends house burnt to the ground and everything in just a 30 Minute rated safe his slabbed Morgan's melted into a puddle of silver, he also had a small fire proof box with no rating that was inside his gun safe didn't even warp his slabbed Saints inside it. He lost over $30,000 in coins back in 94.
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
Home security is properly implemented in layers... starting with outside perimeter... then internal layers, then direct layers... these include personal training as well... and if not at home, devices to deter intruders....I am a security professional, both industrial and personal...If you want to enjoy your collection at home, take the measures and you will be fine. Cheers, RickO
Discretion is your friend. Nothing worth stealing here.
The safest safe I ever saw in a residential home was the water proof one buried underneath the ground inside the garage covered by rubber mat . lol
They'd return for revenge!
I agree. Plus, ANY safe can be opened if the perp places a gun against the head of a loved one.
And any SDB can be rendered off-limits if the government says so, right?
edited to add...
And if that seems unlikely, how about banks erroneously emptying boxes?
What do you think the Pitt bulls are for?
Multiple dummy safes...
Safes, forget them. As mentioned, a gun to the head will open any safe! I don't trust my SDB for several reasons, plus it's not big enough for some of the things I'd need to secure in it. Also, I like to look at my collectibles. I decided long ago that the best (but certainly not 100% secure) way for me to maintain the safety of my family and our goodies was a safe room! This design is similar to what we have:
Sure like that tile.:)
1:55 start and 3;:45 finish. nice!!!
several years ago someone posted a video of two guys gaining entry into one of those six foot tall gun safes that everyone likes to use. the hardest part of the whole ordeal was getting it out of the closet and flat on the floor, door facing up. after that it took them about a minute to pry off the door with two crow-bars.
don't have a safe
https://photos.app.goo.gl/3dmaZrJx15TbvKPc7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ncjfMXoPabRGoNk27
My safe is my last layer of security. Enough said !
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
You could hinge the tiles and have hidey holes under them.
Use the cabinets for the state quarters.
Decoy collection in bedroom safe. You don't want the thieves leaving disappointed! I hope the Tide box doesn't contain cleaned coins.
My Grandma used to store her silver dollars in coffee cans in the fridge & freezer. I guess she figured thieves would never have time for a coffee break
Keep those in the baking soda box.
Love & companionship,,,,,
Baby Thor
Grown up Thor
I bought one of the Sentry safes like in the vid and could not have regretted my $300+ purchase more. Everything about it is cheaply built. It ended up, mostly empty, in unheated storage for several years. Eventually it could no longer be opened because the electronic actuator of the lock failed. I only wish I saw this video so I could have sawed it open in two minutes instead of prying it open in ten. Everything left inside was ruined, like stamps — encapsulated stamps — that were rendered moldy and discolored thanks to Sentry’s silly fireproofing.
Yet, Master Lock keeps pumping them out — after moving production from NY to Mexico in 2016 — and stores like Home Depot keep foisting them on the unsuspecting public to this day.
From Wikipedia:
“In 1991, Michael Redman of Virginia brought a products liability suit against Sentry Group after his coin collection was stolen out of his Sentry Supreme Safe, Model #5570. Redman originally noticed the safe in a Value-Tique advertisement that appeared in the magazine Coin World. The magazine had advertised the safe as a “burglar deterrent”.[2]
“Redman won the jury verdict in district court, but the case was appealed. The United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit reversed the decision, holding that Redman failed to present evidence demonstrating that the safe violated industry standards, government standards, or reasonable consumer expectations. Also, Redman's safe was specifically designed to meet fire-resistant standards, but not “burglar deterrent” standards, even though it did provide “a degree of protection against burglary.” An expert witness testified that materials that enhance burglar-resistance on safes consequently reduce the fire-resistance.”
I once bought 2 1000 dollar Bill's from a lady. she brought them in inside a tombstone pizza box. She kept them in the freezer. Figured what thief would steal her pizza.
HAPPY COLLECTING
The "gun safes" are really just fancy looking lockers. Most "safes" sold at cabellas only have 1/8" steel or less which isn't nearly enough protection. They're good to keep kids away from guns and that about all....
I bought my gun safe years ago from Costco. It's a smaller safe that's fire lined.... weighs around 425 lbs, has recessed hinges. At the time I was more concerned about my kid's friends coming into the house and getting access to a firearm. Fast forward 17 years... this safe gives adequate security against a crack-head looking for something easy to steal, but I'm under no illusion that a pro couldn't get it open.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
don't even need a gun, anything will do in the hands of the determined
Here's a nifty approach ---
Get a 2 ton steel safe with double combination lock. Have it installed in your basement. (Or put it on the unsupported living room floor and instantly create a basement.) Put a nice large piece of roadkill and a dozen squished eggs in the safe. Make quiet fanfare about how great the safe is.
Put your valuables in an old potato sack kept next to the cat poop box, next to the back door - the proper place for anything relating to cat excrement.
When the safe is stolen, your valuables will be safe and the perpetrators can be apprehended by a local bounty hunter working on one of those cheap TV shows.
Working for the "Gubment", I kind of have a different view of safes.
We were always told that they are NOT meant to prevent theft. They are meant to make attempted theft obvious, and to slow the thief down!
At the time, we had plain old metal filing cabinets with a steel bar running from top to bottom in front of the doors. A combination lock held the steel bar in place, but it was quite obvious to even the most casual observer that you could cut off the guides for the steel bar with some pretty simple tools.
What the powers-that-be wanted to know was: Has anyone TRIED to break in? At which point, they'd do a full investigation. The actual prevention was a fenced perimeter, armed guards on random patrols, bars on windows, locked heavy doors, and electronic alarms. None were foolproof....I don't think a foolproof system even exists. But if you got past ALL of them, well, the safe would just slow you down even further.
In short, if you make it too difficult, you probably prevent most thefts before they get to "the goods".
Keep those thoughts in mind, and a good, heavy, hard to move safe can be an important part of a larger plan.
Bank safe deposit boxes at my local bank are modestly priced and serve me well. One 10" x 10" x 30" box within the bank's vault accommodates my entire collection. Boxes of this size can hold a surprising amount of precious metals.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
So that must be where all the electric blue copper is coming from.
I don’t know...with the recent Tide Pod Challenge and such teenagers might steal and eat your coins 😄
The new types of carbide saw blades can get past most any safe. The sides of most gun safes are easy to open up.
In today's times, you have to protect the safe. You can't give the bad guys time to tool a safe.
First they will bring you a toy, then they will sit at the door propping it open while you remove the safe, finally they will wiggle until you scratch their butt.
If you’re unlucky, they’ll fart.
Don’t believe me, ask @GRANDAM
Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.