I will fess up. In hindsight, I should never have started this thread.
I thought that the world is made up of a countless number coins that never received the green bean at their grade level. There is no shame owning non CAC coins.
Instead, is this thread being turned into second guessing of CAC's skill set? Does PCGS make mistakes? Using a sample of 1 or 2 or 10 proves what?
I thought I was starting a positive thread about one appreciating the coins they own whether it received stickers or not.
Haters, hate. I guess they have their reasons but I assume most readers would rather see a positive thread that potentially could lead to a teaching moment. Especially sine this board contains untold knowledge.
@fastfreddie said:
I always thought this was strong for 62 but it failed. Probably not enough luster with its dusty appearance.
Based on the images, the coin looks to have more than enough luster for that grade. It also looks "rubby" on Liberty's knees, breasts (and possibly arms)..
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I appreciate the OP's viewpoint in starting the thread. Education was mentioned above as a main product of these Boards and I could not agree more. I have no dog in the fight, but certainly enjoy the banter and diversions included in the thread as it matures.
We all may have something to learn here. This tuition is cheaper than many errors I may have made financially in my collecting career . . . .
@fastfreddie said:
I always thought this was strong for 62 but it failed. Probably not enough luster with its dusty appearance.
Based on the images, the coin looks to have more than enough luster for that grade. It also looks "rubby" on Liberty's knees, breasts (and possibly arms)..
So basically its in that dead zone of 58-62 and the grade could have gone either way. I'll have to look at the coin again for rub but I don't recall it being that way,
It is not that life is short, but that you are dead for so very long.
@fastfreddie said:
I always thought this was strong for 62 but it failed. Probably not enough luster with its dusty appearance.
Based on the images, the coin looks to have more than enough luster for that grade. It also looks "rubby" on Liberty's knees, breasts (and possibly arms)..
So basically its in that dead zone of 58-62 and the grade could have gone either way. I'll have to look at the coin again for rub but I don't recall it being that way,
I can only go by the images and might feel differently, were I to see the coin in hand. I was looking for an explanation as to why the coin didn't sticker and the areas I mentioned look like a better explanation than lack of adequate luster.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@jkrk said:
I will fess up. In hindsight, I should never have started this thread.
I thought that the world is made up of a countless number coins that never received the green bean at their grade level. There is no shame owning non CAC coins.
Instead, is this thread being turned into second guessing of CAC's skill set? Does PCGS make mistakes? Using a sample of 1 or 2 or 10 proves what?
I thought I was starting a positive thread about one appreciating the coins they own whether it received stickers or not.
Haters, hate. I guess they have their reasons but I assume most readers would rather see a positive thread that potentially could lead to a teaching moment. Especially sine this board contains untold knowledge.
That's my mea culpa.
Yes it’s exactly what I envisioned from jump street . Bobsled ride to hell. Don’t beat yourself up your intent was good
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
What happened to at @PhilLynott’s comment? It was a masterpiece
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@fastfreddie said:
I always thought this was strong for 62 but it failed. Probably not enough luster with its dusty (rusty die obverse) appearance.
Compared to some other coins that get the MS-62 grade, this piece is a gem. This shows you why coin doctors strip original surfaced coins to get higher grades.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@fastfreddie said:
I always thought this was strong for 62 but it failed. Probably not enough luster with its dusty (rusty die obverse) appearance.
Compared to some other coins that get the MS-62 grade, this piece is a gem. This shows you why coin doctors stripe original surfaced coins to get higher grades.
I agree that I love surfaces that are unaltered with patina. I love the coin either way 62 no bean or 58 +bean. I reviewed the coin from the bank this afternoon and it does not appear to have rub; maybe some 'cabinet' friction but defiantly not circulated IMO. There is a scratch on the right obverse that may have held it back but to me the coin is "choice" for the grade.
It is not that life is short, but that you are dead for so very long.
@Coinflip said:
Someone brought it to my attention at one time... A CAC stickered Coin doesn't mean its a solid or PQ coin, in a sense it does, but it doesn't. It more or less means THAT CAC would buy it , if they had BIDS attached to those coins, thats where the market comes from. Therefore there are coins that CAC may not sticker that Are for sure PQ.
That is incorrect. If a coin meets CAC’s standards, they will sticker it, regardless of whether they’d have interest in buying it. There are numerous coin types and grades for which they don’t make markets, but which they accept for submission and sticker, if they feel it’s warranted.
trying to make a point of the market that is attached to those bids of those stickered coins
@Coinflip said:
Someone brought it to my attention at one time... A CAC stickered Coin doesn't mean its a solid or PQ coin, in a sense it does, but it doesn't. It more or less means THAT CAC would buy it , if they had BIDS attached to those coins, thats where the market comes from. Therefore there are coins that CAC may not sticker that Are for sure PQ.
That is incorrect. If a coin meets CAC’s standards, they will sticker it, regardless of whether they’d have interest in buying it. There are numerous coin types and grades for which they don’t make markets, but which they accept for submission and sticker, if they feel it’s warranted.
trying to make a point of the market that is attached to those bids of those stickered coins
Yet, there are many stickered coins for which there are no bids by CAC. CAC doesn’t refuse to sticker worthy coins,, merely because they don’t have interest in them.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Gazes said: @Gazes said:
anytime I have reached out to JA for an offer on a CAC coin I own, he has always made what i considered to be a fair offer.
When I asked for offers, he was about 10% over CDN wholesale ask. That might be good but I did much better selling on my own the same coins.
Best, SH
sometimes he gave me the best offer and others I felt I could do better but he always gave me an offer that I thought was fair. I have had dealers over the years who would not make any offer (fair or low) on coins they sold me. My point is he stands behind his sticker even if he isnt particularly thrilled about buying the coin
To get back to the OP topic, here are 2 bust coins I love that did not bean. I suppose CAC felt they were too dipped, but I selected each after viewing in hand and putting them through the spacehayduke evaluation. I love them even without the beans. Curiously, near blast white coins with strong luster, frost, and good surfaces still go for strong money even without CAC. Better than a dark, near-terminally-toned CAC coin IMO. Keep in mind that these are whiter than the images here - when I upload to this site there is a slight red shift in the images.
@Gazes said: @Gazes said:
anytime I have reached out to JA for an offer on a CAC coin I own, he has always made what i considered to be a fair offer.
When I asked for offers, he was about 10% over CDN wholesale ask. That might be good but I did much better selling on my own the same coins.
Best, SH
sometimes he gave me the best offer and others I felt I could do better but he always gave me an offer that I thought was fair. I have had dealers over the years who would not make any offer (fair or low) on coins they sold me. My point is he stands behind his sticker even if he isnt particularly thrilled about buying the coin
I agree with you, I am just saying if I have done my job selecting the really outstanding coins, I can sell them for more than a CAC offer every time. If am selling CAC coins that are just good, then his offer is better than most dealers, agree.
Sure, he's above average, but in my 60 years as a collector, I've seen others who were just as good.
Just above average? What a crock of poo. What a silly statement. Hard to take anything you say seriously on the subject. That’s like saying you’re average. Good grief man.
m
I wonder how many coins John looks at
everyday ?
I would say he’s not only above average but at the top of the pyramid.
He is. I once saw John Dannreuther and David Hall grab John Albanese 10 minutes apart to ask his opinion on something they hadn’t seen before or were unsure of. John Albanese is who the experts go for answers. The dude co founded PCGS, he founded NGC. He founded CAC. He graded over 1,000,000 coins at NGC. He looked at over 1,000,000 coins at CAC. No one can detect monkied with coins better then John. He’s seen it all. There is no one better. Maybe a few as good but I’m thinking that’s even a stretch. Just above average? Please
m
Couldn't agree with you more. And on top of that he is a great guy and as honest and sincere as they come. Along with humble too.
Those additional accolades are spot on
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@spacehayduke said:
To get back to the OP topic, here are 2 bust coins I love that did not bean. I suppose CAC felt they were too dipped, but I selected each after viewing in hand and putting them through the spacehayduke evaluation. I love them even without the beans. Curiously, near blast white coins with strong luster, frost, and good surfaces still go for strong money even without CAC. Better than a dark, near-terminally-toned CAC coin IMO. Keep in mind that these are whiter than the images here - when I upload to this site there is a slight red shift in the images.
Best, SH
Don't feel bad. I think they would be slam dunk for the Ricko Sticko.
@jkrk said:
I will fess up. In hindsight, I should never have started this thread.
I thought that the world is made up of a countless number coins that never received the green bean at their grade level. There is no shame owning non CAC coins.
Instead, is this thread being turned into second guessing of CAC's skill set? Does PCGS make mistakes? Using a sample of 1 or 2 or 10 proves what?
I thought I was starting a positive thread about one appreciating the coins they own whether it received stickers or not.
Haters, hate. I guess they have their reasons but I assume most readers would rather see a positive thread that potentially could lead to a teaching moment. Especially sine this board contains untold knowledge.
That's my mea culpa.
>
No mea culpa necessary. CAC is an important topic in the hobby. The fact that price guides are now including pricing for CAC vs NON CAC coins show it is a relevant important topic regardless of where one stands on the subject. Also, lets face it---people who complain about "another CAC thread" are a bit insincere. These threads get some of the highest views, the most comments, and the most passionate discussion. I think it is PC to say "another CAC thread..." but people really enjoy them. There are plenty of threads I don't ever open ---they just don't interest me. If someone didn't want to read "another" CAC thread they can easily avoid it.
I am glad you posted your thread since there is some interesting info and pics on here. Thanks
I think it has been a very useful thread which has demonstrated that there are indeed many beautiful coins that many collectors want to own even with the absence of a bean. Its almost impossible to have this many replies and not have some sidetracks but overall this one has stayed on topic better than most.
Comments
I will fess up. In hindsight, I should never have started this thread.
I thought that the world is made up of a countless number coins that never received the green bean at their grade level. There is no shame owning non CAC coins.
Instead, is this thread being turned into second guessing of CAC's skill set? Does PCGS make mistakes? Using a sample of 1 or 2 or 10 proves what?
I thought I was starting a positive thread about one appreciating the coins they own whether it received stickers or not.
Haters, hate. I guess they have their reasons but I assume most readers would rather see a positive thread that potentially could lead to a teaching moment. Especially sine this board contains untold knowledge.
That's my mea culpa.
You don't need to apologize. There's nothing you can do about what other people choose to say.
Two points:
1)You must live on the West Coast? Morning? It's 11:30 here.
2)Old?? Speak for yourself. I just received my Medicare card (or was that 2 =yeas ago?).
I always thought this was strong for 62 but it failed. Probably not enough luster with its dusty (rusty die obverse) appearance.
Based on the images, the coin looks to have more than enough luster for that grade. It also looks "rubby" on Liberty's knees, breasts (and possibly arms)..
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I appreciate the OP's viewpoint in starting the thread. Education was mentioned above as a main product of these Boards and I could not agree more. I have no dog in the fight, but certainly enjoy the banter and diversions included in the thread as it matures.
We all may have something to learn here. This tuition is cheaper than many errors I may have made financially in my collecting career . . . .
Drunner
So basically its in that dead zone of 58-62 and the grade could have gone either way. I'll have to look at the coin again for rub but I don't recall it being that way,
I can only go by the images and might feel differently, were I to see the coin in hand. I was looking for an explanation as to why the coin didn't sticker and the areas I mentioned look like a better explanation than lack of adequate luster.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yes it’s exactly what I envisioned from jump street . Bobsled ride to hell. Don’t beat yourself up your intent was good
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
What happened to at @PhilLynott’s comment? It was a masterpiece
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Compared to some other coins that get the MS-62 grade, this piece is a gem. This shows you why coin doctors strip original surfaced coins to get higher grades.
I agree that I love surfaces that are unaltered with patina. I love the coin either way 62 no bean or 58 +bean. I reviewed the coin from the bank this afternoon and it does not appear to have rub; maybe some 'cabinet' friction but defiantly not circulated IMO. There is a scratch on the right obverse that may have held it back but to me the coin is "choice" for the grade.
I'm unaware of the stripe technique???
“> @drei3ree said:
I’m pretty sure he meant to write “strip”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Not this?
trying to make a point of the market that is attached to those bids of those stickered coins
RAD#306
Yet, there are many stickered coins for which there are no bids by CAC. CAC doesn’t refuse to sticker worthy coins,, merely because they don’t have interest in them.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
anytime I have reached out to JA for an offer on a CAC coin I own, he has always made what i considered to be a fair offer.
When I asked for offers, he was about 10% over CDN wholesale ask. That might be good but I did much better selling on my own the same coins.
Best, SH
sometimes he gave me the best offer and others I felt I could do better but he always gave me an offer that I thought was fair. I have had dealers over the years who would not make any offer (fair or low) on coins they sold me. My point is he stands behind his sticker even if he isnt particularly thrilled about buying the coin
To get back to the OP topic, here are 2 bust coins I love that did not bean. I suppose CAC felt they were too dipped, but I selected each after viewing in hand and putting them through the spacehayduke evaluation. I love them even without the beans. Curiously, near blast white coins with strong luster, frost, and good surfaces still go for strong money even without CAC. Better than a dark, near-terminally-toned CAC coin IMO. Keep in mind that these are whiter than the images here - when I upload to this site there is a slight red shift in the images.
Best, SH
I agree with you, I am just saying if I have done my job selecting the really outstanding coins, I can sell them for more than a CAC offer every time. If am selling CAC coins that are just good, then his offer is better than most dealers, agree.
Best, SH
Those additional accolades are spot on
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
PCGS MS67 no CAC:
Don't feel bad. I think they would be slam dunk for the Ricko Sticko.
A few Mercury dimes that missed the mark
MS67
MS66
MS66
MS66
MS67
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
>
No mea culpa necessary. CAC is an important topic in the hobby. The fact that price guides are now including pricing for CAC vs NON CAC coins show it is a relevant important topic regardless of where one stands on the subject. Also, lets face it---people who complain about "another CAC thread" are a bit insincere. These threads get some of the highest views, the most comments, and the most passionate discussion. I think it is PC to say "another CAC thread..." but people really enjoy them. There are plenty of threads I don't ever open ---they just don't interest me. If someone didn't want to read "another" CAC thread they can easily avoid it.
I am glad you posted your thread since there is some interesting info and pics on here. Thanks
The complaints about CAC threads are suspiciously motivated.
IMHO
I think it has been a very useful thread which has demonstrated that there are indeed many beautiful coins that many collectors want to own even with the absence of a bean. Its almost impossible to have this many replies and not have some sidetracks but overall this one has stayed on topic better than most.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.