I imagine this will also affect the registry where bonus points will be awarded in certain series as soon as it can be determined what's appropriate. I'm guessing that it will only really come into play for really modern sets like Lincoln Shield cents, where some coins can legitimately be said to have PL surfaces.
@Walkerfan said:
Although clearly not his coin; I still wouldn't be surprised, if his request had some impact.
I'm sure it did. Before Jason's thread a few of us had also mentioned it in Brett's AMA Q&A. Others including myself and other forum members (e.g. wondercoin) had tried to convince DW previously. I think it was finally clear that there was real demand for a PL designation. I'm so glad PCGS finally agreed.
@ms70 said:
I fail to see the value in calling something "like" when it just..... isn't.
Would you prefer “reflective” or “mirrored”?
Neither. Anyone should be able to make the observation of proof-like without help. I just feel it's unnecessary.
Ditto for strike designations, CAM/DCAM designations, and copper color designations. Some of the more cynical of us (myself included) would argue the same about grade. The designations can be just as subjective as grading.
@dizzlecc said:
Good news, it will be interesting to see if this increases the number of collectors who focus on proof like coins.
I doubt it, but I do think it will hurt NGC's bottom line as PL collectors were stuck using NGC if they wanted to have their coins designated as PL by a first tier grading service.
@BryceM said:
The price guides are going to be much more voluminous than before......
Many of the issues will be so rare and trade so infrequently that there might not be separate listings in the price guide. The quality of the fields make pricing highly variable anyway so most PL collectors look to the auction records anyway.
@ACop said:
I'm holding out for the next big announcement, FREE proof like designation.
Are you going to try to cross your Peace Dollars?
I only have 1 NGC PL P$...I am not sure of the benefit in doing so other than a slab preference. Honestly NGC has been designating PL coins so much longer now I consider them the expert versus day 1 PCGS...So maybe eventually if I sell and theres a benefit in doing so I'll let the auction house cross it.
I only have 1 NGC PL P$...I am not sure of the benefit in doing so other than a slab preference. Honestly NGC has been designating PL coins so much longer now I consider them the expert versus day 1 PCGS...So maybe eventually if I sell and theres a benefit in doing so I'll let the auction house cross it.
I'm smelling a quarterly special geared at getting that coin submitted -- risk-free crossover of PL coins (excluding Morgan dollar), where you don't pay if it doesn't cross. It's a little specialized to be a special on its own, but I imagine it'll find its way into one. July 1 is the start of the next quarter, after all.
I only have 1 NGC PL P$...I am not sure of the benefit in doing so other than a slab preference. Honestly NGC has been designating PL coins so much longer now I consider them the expert versus day 1 PCGS...So maybe eventually if I sell and theres a benefit in doing so I'll let the auction house cross it.
I'm smelling a quarterly special geared at getting that coin submitted -- risk-free crossover of PL coins (excluding Morgan dollar), where you don't pay if it doesn't cross. It's a little specialized to be a special on its own, but I imagine it'll find its way into one. July 1 is the start of the next quarter, after all.
I'll see what the other PL P$ do first. No sense driving up the pops.
I only have 1 NGC PL P$...I am not sure of the benefit in doing so other than a slab preference. Honestly NGC has been designating PL coins so much longer now I consider them the expert versus day 1 PCGS...So maybe eventually if I sell and theres a benefit in doing so I'll let the auction house cross it.
I'm smelling a quarterly special geared at getting that coin submitted -- risk-free crossover of PL coins (excluding Morgan dollar), where you don't pay if it doesn't cross. It's a little specialized to be a special on its own, but I imagine it'll find its way into one. July 1 is the start of the next quarter, after all.
@ms70 said:
I fail to see the value in calling something "like" when it just..... isn't.
Would you prefer “reflective” or “mirrored”?
Neither. Anyone should be able to make the observation of proof-like without help. I just feel it's unnecessary.
The same could be said about other designations, such as “Cameo”, “FH”, etc. Often, however, designations aren’t no-brainer calls and many buyers don’t have the opportunity to view the coins in hand, before purchasing them.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@ACop said:
I'll see what the other PL P$ do first. No sense driving up the pops.
It wouldn't. NGC would lose one in its pop and PCGS would gain one. Net change = zero. I understand your other points though.
That assumes some things that end up with NGC updating their pops once PCGS slabs it. I dont believe that happens does it?
NGC will update its census if you send them the old insert. PCGS willl send you back the label with the coin and let you decide what to do with it.
P.S. Didn't you also have an ANACS PL Peace Dollar?
I refuse for that to be the solution to the census. On the flip side I have 3 pop 1/0 coins that NGC apparently stopped counting on. They asked me to send the pictures. That process is sloppy and contributes to the mess. I dont know that there is a solution. But it definitely aint all that work by the collector.
@ACop said:
I'll see what the other PL P$ do first. No sense driving up the pops.
It wouldn't. NGC would lose one in its pop and PCGS would gain one. Net change = zero. I understand your other points though.
That assumes some things that end up with NGC updating their pops once PCGS slabs it. I dont believe that happens does it?
NGC will update its census if you send them the old insert. PCGS willl send you back the label with the coin and let you decide what to do with it.
P.S. Didn't you also have an ANACS PL Peace Dollar?
I do but I'm not sure they cross anacs without cracking? the ANACS coin is a controversial one. I think its life is destined to the anacs holder. I do think its PL and based on the other 34-D that started as its sister coins that all crossed. But I wouldnt risk cracking it.
@ACop said:
I'll see what the other PL P$ do first. No sense driving up the pops.
It wouldn't. NGC would lose one in its pop and PCGS would gain one. Net change = zero. I understand your other points though.
That assumes some things that end up with NGC updating their pops once PCGS slabs it. I dont believe that happens does it?
NGC will update its census if you send them the old insert. PCGS willl send you back the label with the coin and let you decide what to do with it.
P.S. Didn't you also have an ANACS PL Peace Dollar?
I do but I'm not sure they cross anacs without cracking? the ANACS coin is a controversial one. I think its life is destined to the anacs holder. I do think its PL and based on the other 34-D that started as its sister coins that all crossed. But I wouldnt risk cracking it.
PCGS won't crack it unless it meets the minimum grade you specify on the submission form. NGC on the other hand doesn't allow true crossovers for ANACS coins but PCGS will.
@ms70 said:
I fail to see the value in calling something "like" when it just..... isn't.
I find the term fitting but do see your point. It does describe what you see and it does lead many to confuse regular strike for Proof. I find Proof like to have more value when I add premium to a coin in my own assessment.
@ACop said:
I'll see what the other PL P$ do first. No sense driving up the pops.
It wouldn't. NGC would lose one in its pop and PCGS would gain one. Net change = zero. I understand your other points though.
That assumes some things that end up with NGC updating their pops once PCGS slabs it. I dont believe that happens does it?
NGC will update its census if you send them the old insert. PCGS willl send you back the label with the coin and let you decide what to do with it.
P.S. Didn't you also have an ANACS PL Peace Dollar?
I do but I'm not sure they cross anacs without cracking? the ANACS coin is a controversial one. I think its life is destined to the anacs holder. I do think its PL and based on the other 34-D that started as its sister coins that all crossed. But I wouldnt risk cracking it.
PCGS won't crack it unless it meets the minimum grade you specify on the submission form. NGC on the other hand doesn't allow true crossovers for ANACS coins but PCGS will.
I didnt know they had respect for ANACS. That may change things. For that coin at least.
@lkeigwin said:
Great news indeed. For collectors and for PCGS. Think of the all the regrades!
A decision like this, with implementation just two weeks from now, must have been in the works for quite a while. The workflow, training, documentation, and database changes must be overwhelming. But it is surely a worthy endeavor!
Lance.
Would be better if the first 5000 regrades to get the designation were $1.
@ms70 said:
I fail to see the value in calling something "like" when it just..... isn't.
Would you prefer “reflective” or “mirrored”?
I like PL better than the SP designation that some PL business strikes (IMO) have been getting with increasing frequency over the last couple of decades. Granted it is subjective.
Sometimes change can be bad and sometimes it can be good. Keeping abreast with changing times and needs is fundamental if a corporation wants to remain relevant.
Based on very Detailed Grading Specific Discussions on recent US Coin Forum threads, PCGS should consider creating a New Forum Category specifically on the Topic of “Technical Coin Grading” to allow the US Coin Forum to focus more on the Collecting, History and Beauty of Numismatics, and focus the Technical Grading specific discussions in the new forum category.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Brett@PCGS: I am curious as to how or if PCGS will handl previous PCGS non designated coins on the reconsideration service. I have a sure pl $20 liberty as a IHC-both PCGS graded I will be sending asap. Imho, the liberty $20 is a sure bet and the IHC-1908-s PCGS 65RD is a good possibility.
@batumi said:
Brett@PCGS: I am curious as to how or if PCGS will handl previous PCGS non designated coins on the reconsideration service. I have a sure pl $20 liberty as a IHC-both PCGS graded I will be sending asap. Imho, the liberty $20 is a sure bet and the IHC-1908-s PCGS 65RD is a good possibility.
Regrade is a better bet (exceptions for rattler/OGH), and there is no 1% guarantee premium.
Any word on whether there’s a grade cutoff for the PL designation? Like MS60 and above?
I have a really PL trade dollar graded AU55 I’d love to get this designation added to.
According to the PCGS Press release on July 2, only mint state U.S. coins can be PCGS-certified as PL. Your AU55 trade dollar or the AU58 PL designated coin below would not qualify unless it was deemed mint state by PCGS.
Yeah, I saw that. It’s too bad, but I can see why they might do that. Might be difficult to designate PL consistently when field friction is present. Opens up for debate whether it’s not full PL or if it’s just rub. Not saying I agree but I can see why they might stick to a mint state grade cut off. You have any other theories?
I would love to see PCGS change the proof like designation into circulated coins. I’ve seen quite a few seated dollars with proof like surfaces that are circulated. But it is a step in the right direction for sure.
@Catbert said:
Will @CoinPhysicist now cross his NGC PL collection? Will he do a happy dance now that PCGS has relented?
I believe you meant to tag @physicsfan314 . Not sure how much his original thread influenced the decision.
I believe physicsfan3.14 mindset to be above the marketing hype and those PL coins are just fine the way they are.
Comments
Full details coming July 1, I guess.
I imagine this will also affect the registry where bonus points will be awarded in certain series as soon as it can be determined what's appropriate. I'm guessing that it will only really come into play for really modern sets like Lincoln Shield cents, where some coins can legitimately be said to have PL surfaces.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Great Move PCGS!! Thanks for being the best! Watch the others follow... again
Uhhhh..... PCGS is doing the following here....
Choice Numismatics www.ChoiceCoin.com
CN eBay
All of my collection is in a safe deposit box!
I'm sure it did. Before Jason's thread a few of us had also mentioned it in Brett's AMA Q&A. Others including myself and other forum members (e.g. wondercoin) had tried to convince DW previously. I think it was finally clear that there was real demand for a PL designation. I'm so glad PCGS finally agreed.
Ditto for strike designations, CAM/DCAM designations, and copper color designations. Some of the more cynical of us (myself included) would argue the same about grade. The designations can be just as subjective as grading.
I doubt it, but I do think it will hurt NGC's bottom line as PL collectors were stuck using NGC if they wanted to have their coins designated as PL by a first tier grading service.
Many of the issues will be so rare and trade so infrequently that there might not be separate listings in the price guide. The quality of the fields make pricing highly variable anyway so most PL collectors look to the auction records anyway.
I'm holding out for the next big announcement, FREE proof like designation.
Are you going to try to cross your Peace Dollars?
I only have 1 NGC PL P$...I am not sure of the benefit in doing so other than a slab preference. Honestly NGC has been designating PL coins so much longer now I consider them the expert versus day 1 PCGS...So maybe eventually if I sell and theres a benefit in doing so I'll let the auction house cross it.
I'm smelling a quarterly special geared at getting that coin submitted -- risk-free crossover of PL coins (excluding Morgan dollar), where you don't pay if it doesn't cross. It's a little specialized to be a special on its own, but I imagine it'll find its way into one. July 1 is the start of the next quarter, after all.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I'll see what the other PL P$ do first. No sense driving up the pops.
Ah! But you forget about the original mission of the TPG's "to be able to trade coins sight unseen".
It wouldn't. NGC would lose one in its pop and PCGS would gain one. Net change = zero. I understand your other points though.
I hope you're right.
Good news but (thread title) reads like ALL coins will get PL designation, starting July 1st
Even my brown wheaties ?
That assumes some things that end up with NGC updating their pops once PCGS slabs it. I dont believe that happens does it?
NGC will update its census if you send them the old insert. PCGS willl send you back the label with the coin and let you decide what to do with it.
P.S. Didn't you also have an ANACS PL Peace Dollar?
If the coins are PL, yes.
@BrettPCGS any word on whether there’s a grade cutoff for the PL designation? Like MS60 and above?
I have a really PL trade dollar graded AU55 I’d love to get this designation added to.
The same could be said about other designations, such as “Cameo”, “FH”, etc. Often, however, designations aren’t no-brainer calls and many buyers don’t have the opportunity to view the coins in hand, before purchasing them.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I refuse for that to be the solution to the census. On the flip side I have 3 pop 1/0 coins that NGC apparently stopped counting on. They asked me to send the pictures. That process is sloppy and contributes to the mess. I dont know that there is a solution. But it definitely aint all that work by the collector.
I do but I'm not sure they cross anacs without cracking? the ANACS coin is a controversial one. I think its life is destined to the anacs holder. I do think its PL and based on the other 34-D that started as its sister coins that all crossed. But I wouldnt risk cracking it.
The other angle here is what does PCGS do about semi-PL coins? NGC gives a Star*
Then no designation for you.
Great milestone so did you have to decide which coin? I have some out waiting in the wind. Day 55. 😀
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
PCGS won't crack it unless it meets the minimum grade you specify on the submission form. NGC on the other hand doesn't allow true crossovers for ANACS coins but PCGS will.
I find the term fitting but do see your point. It does describe what you see and it does lead many to confuse regular strike for Proof. I find Proof like to have more value when I add premium to a coin in my own assessment.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
I didnt know they had respect for ANACS. That may change things. For that coin at least.
One word - Wowza!
Physicsfan will be interested as well in the PL designation.......
How will this impact the registry, Bonus points?
Good news ........ and now I have to get lucky on at least a couple PL
Sheer and utter chaos.
Can't wait to see this rolled out.
Would be better if the first 5000 regrades to get the designation were $1.
Or sorta proofish?
Great news! I am excited to see this implementation
I like PL better than the SP designation that some PL business strikes (IMO) have been getting with increasing frequency over the last couple of decades. Granted it is subjective.
Sometimes change can be bad and sometimes it can be good. Keeping abreast with changing times and needs is fundamental if a corporation wants to remain relevant.
This change is good.
IMHO
Based on very Detailed Grading Specific Discussions on recent US Coin Forum threads, PCGS should consider creating a New Forum Category specifically on the Topic of “Technical Coin Grading” to allow the US Coin Forum to focus more on the Collecting, History and Beauty of Numismatics, and focus the Technical Grading specific discussions in the new forum category.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Brett@PCGS: I am curious as to how or if PCGS will handl previous PCGS non designated coins on the reconsideration service. I have a sure pl $20 liberty as a IHC-both PCGS graded I will be sending asap. Imho, the liberty $20 is a sure bet and the IHC-1908-s PCGS 65RD is a good possibility.
That IS a monster.
Now I'm going to have nightmares.
I completely love this. Brett is proving to be such a breath of fresh air for PC
This is good news.
I had one graded this month and received no special PL. Will wait and retry in a week to see if it gets noticed then.
Thanks,
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I never understood why coins long known to exist in PL, like the 1941-S dime and the 1949-S Franklin half, could only be slabbed at "the other place."
Regrade is a better bet (exceptions for rattler/OGH), and there is no 1% guarantee premium.
@OriginalDan said:
According to the PCGS Press release on July 2, only mint state U.S. coins can be PCGS-certified as PL. Your AU55 trade dollar or the AU58 PL designated coin below would not qualify unless it was deemed mint state by PCGS.
Yeah, I saw that. It’s too bad, but I can see why they might do that. Might be difficult to designate PL consistently when field friction is present. Opens up for debate whether it’s not full PL or if it’s just rub. Not saying I agree but I can see why they might stick to a mint state grade cut off. You have any other theories?
I would love to see PCGS change the proof like designation into circulated coins. I’ve seen quite a few seated dollars with proof like surfaces that are circulated. But it is a step in the right direction for sure.