1823 Capped Bust Halves - The Troublesome 3's

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lkeigwin
lkeigwin Posts: 16,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
1823 capped bust halves are well known for double and even triple profiles. But the Redbook varieties focus on the problems the Mint engravers had with the number 3 punch.

Four different varieties are seen, but not all from the same working die.
- The "broken 3" (O.101) came from a new 3 punch, and the less than satisfactory result was not touched up as would normally have happened.
- The "patched 3" (O.101a, O.102) was a botched repair attempt to the same die.
- The "ugly 3" (O.110a) was due to a die crack from the rim upward which simply broke away the right side of the numeral.
- The fourth 3 variety -- not a recognized "major" one, the "tampered with 3" (O.106a), was likely due to a simple die chip and not inept tampering.

Here are some examples. A shout out to AU58WALKERS for the patched 3 that arrived today. image
Lance.

Broken 3
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Patched 3
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Ugly 3
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Tampered-with 3
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Normal 3
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Profile doubling
imageimage
Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213

Comments

  • coinnut
    coinnut Posts: 1,434 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Great job, Lance! It's nice to see them all togetther.image
  • jayPem
    jayPem Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Awesome group Lance !
  • CircOnly
    CircOnly Posts: 2,225 ✭✭✭✭
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    Great stuff, thanks for posting these. image
  • Goldbully
    Goldbully Posts: 18,559 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Great post Lance!! image
  • coinlieutenant
    coinlieutenant Posts: 9,328 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Very cool Lance!

    Thank you for posting. Another aspect of why this board is so cool.

    John

    siliconvalleycoins.com

  • cmanbb
    cmanbb Posts: 1,059 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    image Those CBH"s
  • sparky64
    sparky64 Posts: 7,065 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Well done!
    Thanks.

    "If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"

    My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress

  • sniocsu
    sniocsu Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭
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    Very nice
  • ElmerFusterpuck
    ElmerFusterpuck Posts: 4,910 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Nice coins and photos! I wouldn't call any of those 3's lookers either, they all look ugly to me! image

    10-4,
    Erik
    My registry sets

    My Instagram pictures
  • habaraca
    habaraca Posts: 2,121 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Most Excellent....

    May I keep the post/pictures for future study?
  • Treashunt
    Treashunt Posts: 6,748 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    excellent micro-photography

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • zap1111
    zap1111 Posts: 1,298 ✭✭
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    A great post - thanks! Very nice coins, too.
    zap
    zap1111
    102 capped bust half dollars - 100 die marriages
    BHNC #198
  • Trime
    Trime Posts: 1,863 ✭✭✭
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    Add my appreciation . Great photography. A real keeper post
    Trime
  • johnny9434
    johnny9434 Posts: 34,111 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    now heres a post worth keeping for future referance with them pics
  • maibockaddict
    maibockaddict Posts: 1,759 ✭
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    Neat post! Great set of coins!
    You may call me Dave
    BHNC member # 184!

    http://www.busthalfaddict.com
  • mozin
    mozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
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    Very nice presentation. I like your Patched 3 the best, but I would much rather own your Broken 3. Believe it or not, but I had the hardest time finding the Ugly 3.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • CharlotteDude
    CharlotteDude Posts: 3,321 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    A very nice and thorough run-down on the major '23 date varieties. I'm not a Bust Half Dollar collector, but I found the images and info on each date variety to be very interesting. Excellent-looking coins also.

    cheers,

    'dude
    Got Crust....y gold?
  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,175 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019 9:28AM
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    Zombie thread alert.

    @Ikeigwin Are there any die chain studies that show where in 1823 these weird date dies were used? Robert Scot died in November of 1823, and William Kneass did not replace him until late January of 1824. I have always enjoyed the mental image of the Chief Coiner trying to get one more die he can use by personally dating the "Broken 3" die by using the bottom half of a (literally broken) "3" punch to sink the bottom half of the 3, and then using the top half of a cut-down "2" punch to sink the top half of the 3.
    TD

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • BustDMs
    BustDMs Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Dr Ivan Leaman and Don Gunnet developed an emission order for the Capped Bust Halves and presented their findings at the COAC Conference in 1986. According to them the emission sequence of 1823 is, by Overton numbers:

    1823 108
    1822 112, 113
    1823 109,101,102,110,104,111,107,103,105,106
    1824 111
    1823 112
    1824 112,101,102
    1823 113

    Their study used the die states of the edge dies in conjunction with the obverse and reverse dies to make their determinations.

    Hope this helps a little.

    Q: When does a collector become a numismatist?



    A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.



    A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
  • LJenkins11
    LJenkins11 Posts: 868 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I missed the original posting but wonderful examples and nice educational write up.

  • LanLord
    LanLord Posts: 11,756 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I love the 23s, there are so many different looks to that one digit on the various dies.

    Cool group.

  • lkeigwin
    lkeigwin Posts: 16,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I forgot about one more odd 3...the "tall 3", O.112.

    So for the sake of completeness...
    Lance.

    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
  • Tunis
    Tunis Posts: 515 ✭✭✭✭
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    Incredibly impressive!! Thanks for sharing.

    Successful buys/sales on BST board from NotSure, Nankraut, Yorkshireman, Astrorat, Ikeigwin(2x), Bob13, Outhaul, coinbuf, dpvilla, jayPem, Sean1990, TwoKopeiki, bidask, Downtown1974, drddm, nederveit2, ajann

  • MWallace
    MWallace Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I learned something today. Thanks.

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Great post Lance... very informative and excellent pictures.... Worth putting in my computer 'coin library'... Cheers, RickO

  • cameonut2011
    cameonut2011 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @lkeigwin Have you ever thought about starting an attribution service for Capped Bust Half Dollars comparable to what Messydesk does for Morgan Dollars?

  • lkeigwin
    lkeigwin Posts: 16,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @cameonut2011 said:
    @lkeigwin Have you ever thought about starting an attribution service for Capped Bust Half Dollars comparable to what Messydesk does for Morgan Dollars?

    LOL. I don't think I'd be very busy.

    Bust half attribution isn't really difficult or tricky. Anyone can get the gist of it quickly using skills learned as a toddler. "Which of these is not like the others?"

    With experience you learn to be faster at it by picking out distinctive characteristics, like die cracks, an unusual orientation of stars and their points, or a peculiar relationship between legend and scroll letters. Something odd and prominent.
    Lance.

    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
  • Tunis
    Tunis Posts: 515 ✭✭✭✭
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    Just a public shout out to Lance. He took the time to “educate” me in the basics of attribution. Not as easy as he makes it, lol, but practice makes perfect(sort of).

    Successful buys/sales on BST board from NotSure, Nankraut, Yorkshireman, Astrorat, Ikeigwin(2x), Bob13, Outhaul, coinbuf, dpvilla, jayPem, Sean1990, TwoKopeiki, bidask, Downtown1974, drddm, nederveit2, ajann

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