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> > > NOT Your Daddies Libertas Americana - Ü
Kudbegud
Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭
Not a re-strike, not Gold, not Silver. Not common, actual rarity. Population couldn't be any lower.
From 1783. Tin with a Copper Plug.
I was looking for a PCGS Gold Libertas, any re-strike year, but only found NGC. I don't have anything again'st NGC but want to keep grading slab consistency in my small collection of these. The uniqueness of this medal grabbed me and wouldn't let go. After several trips to the page and back I made an offer. The acceptance email was in my in-box when I awoke this AM. OK then. It's on it's way to me.
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Congrats! I saw that and was tempted as well! If your offer was below the asking price, you got a very good deal!
The population for these are rather confused. These are the two tin examples that I have:
This one is PCGS #509469, and is graded MS61:
This one is PCGS #519404, and is graded SP61:
These were also struck in Bronze and Silver.
Now, about a PCGS Gold Libertas of any re-strike year, it seems that NGC made a deal with the Paris Mint to slab them all (well, certainly for the more recent ones). I think I may be the primary submitter of these to PCGS, as like you, I want slab consistency. The gold ones are very attractive, as they were all struck as Deep Cameo Proofs. For example, these are my 2004 Gold Restrikes:
I am impressed!
@cardinal
Yours are very nice. Seeing your examples I'm thinking population is for by grade. Maybe? Your True View one is also population 1.
Ah, no wonder PCGS graded gold is tough to find.....thanks.
Well done!!!!
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Part of my main interest....so I am jealous and envy of yours Congrats my friend ....... it is truly a good pickup
I'm a humble recent member of this club:
I am calling for a "Humble Party" RSVP
You have to host the party in paradise. No one wants to hang out in PA
@ACop
Welcome aboard this crazy train. Like the Twilight Zone, you can get on but you won't be able to get off.....ever.
Thanks. I have the gold on my wantlist for later this year. Maybe a self christmas present. It is 3rd in line for gold coins id like to pick up before year is over.
I like the Libertas designs and that gold piece is stunning.... Cheers, RickO
Can't jump off the train yet. Added this Bronze, sealed as it came from the Paris Mint
Question on the 2000 and 2004 gold restrikes:
What would be a reasonable premium to purchase over gold spot if the medals were in a slab and 65 cameo or better ?
Just curious , thanks.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Alright I’m glad this thread has gone to show and tell. These I picked up from Cardinal. The 5 oz gold is fun
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Damn those coins are as big as the deck they are on !
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
My humble collection of the smaller ones ...... they are really pretty being grouped together varied in size as well as metal content
I am trying to exchange the NGC to PCGS
Very nice arrangement @Paradisefound
I feel lucky!
TSA Dad at 80 yrs old and keeps on ticking, 5 days a week. LOVE ya for how you handled us.
Thought you might need this.
The 2000 issue is 64 grams of gold, and only 500 were struck. The 2004 issue is 43 grams of gold, and 1776 were struck. For some reason, sellers price the 2004 issue higher than the 2000 issue. That doesn’t make sense to me!
I have seen the 2000 issue sell for less than 150% of the spot price of gold. For the 2004 issue, sellers seem be asking 200% of the spot price or more. It may be that sellers acquired them when gold was higher, but I would expect they would negotiate a lesser price.
Here's the 1792 French version, with Libertas Americana replaced with Liberte Francoise:
BTW, all three are the Maz-318a double weight version of the medal.
Which of the 2000 or 2004 gold medals is closer in size to the 2006 bronze & silver medals? I've wanted one of the golds ever since Cardinal posted his, way back when.
I knew it would happen.
Interesting pick-up...congrats!
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The 2000 gold medals are very close in size to the 2005/2006 bronze medals. The bronze medals are 47mm, and the 2000 gold medals are 46.8mm. The 2004 gold medals are 40mm.
The 2000 gold medals are very close in size to the 2005/2006 bronze medals.
Thank you sir. That's a set I've always wanted to complete.
I knew it would happen.
I Liberated mine from the suffocated wraps
Congratulations on a rare and beautiful medal! I have the "bug" as well.
I see a good portion of these (relatively, of course, since there aren’t many) that have sold have that copper plug in roughly, but not exactly, the same spot. Any idea why?
@ffcoins said:
I see a good portion of these (relatively, of course, since there aren’t many) that have sold have that copper plug in roughly, but not exactly, the same spot. Any idea why?
No idea. I haven't seen but this one so I have nothing to compare positioning of the plug.
Mine arrived Tuesday and it was bigger than I expected. About Silver Dollar size. The luster was also much better than the True View photo showed.
Interesting. Do a search on sold Libertas Americanas on Heritage, there were three or so with similar plus over the years.
Definitely a cool thing to have!
I found these 3
The plug does seem to wander a little
Intriguing, isn’t it?
Yes
Why were little copper plugs inserted?
How were they inserted?
How were they placed?
The copper plug was inserted to attract corrosion and limit tin pest in the rest of the medal. Many tin tokens from the era have been destroyed by tin pest. The copper plug defeated this and is the reason why these medals look much better than other tin pieces of the time, say the American Plantations tokens.
Thanks Zoins. That makes sense. Like the magnesium or zinc anode rod in your water heater. Sacrifice the easier corroded metal to protect the important metal.
I'm thinking the plugs were placed manually. See below for placement in reference to the foot.
The question is, were they placed after original production? I also saw some that don’t have them, but if you look at these plugs, they have details consistent with the design of the medal!
That makes sense though, thanks for the info!
They would have to be placed before the strike for the details to show as you point out. The mint probably didn't go to the expense of making and utilizing a jig to insure consistent placement. But some procedure had to be in place for such a tiny copper plug to be inserted.