Home U.S. Coin Forum

> > > NOT Your Daddies Libertas Americana - Ü

KudbegudKudbegud Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

Not a re-strike, not Gold, not Silver. Not common, actual rarity. Population couldn't be any lower.
From 1783. Tin with a Copper Plug.

I was looking for a PCGS Gold Libertas, any re-strike year, but only found NGC. I don't have anything again'st NGC but want to keep grading slab consistency in my small collection of these. The uniqueness of this medal grabbed me and wouldn't let go. After several trips to the page and back I made an offer. The acceptance email was in my in-box when I awoke this AM. OK then. It's on it's way to me.


Comments

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am impressed!

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • KudbegudKudbegud Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cardinal
    Yours are very nice. Seeing your examples I'm thinking population is for by grade. Maybe? Your True View one is also population 1.

    Ah, no wonder PCGS graded gold is tough to find.....thanks.


  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well done!!!!

    mark

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • ParadisefoundParadisefound Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2019 11:47PM

    Part of my main interest....so I am jealous and envy of yours B) Congrats my friend ....... it is truly a good pickup

  • ParadisefoundParadisefound Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 14, 2019 11:52PM

    <3

  • ACopACop Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm a humble recent member of this club:

  • ParadisefoundParadisefound Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am calling for a "Humble Party" RSVP B)

    @ACop said:
    I'm a humble recent member of this club:

  • ACopACop Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You have to host the party in paradise. No one wants to hang out in PA

  • KudbegudKudbegud Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ACop
    Welcome aboard this crazy train. Like the Twilight Zone, you can get on but you won't be able to get off.....ever. >:)


  • ACopACop Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks. I have the gold on my wantlist for later this year. Maybe a self christmas present. It is 3rd in line for gold coins id like to pick up before year is over.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like the Libertas designs and that gold piece is stunning.... Cheers, RickO

  • KudbegudKudbegud Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Can't jump off the train yet. Added this Bronze, sealed as it came from the Paris Mint



  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,834 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Question on the 2000 and 2004 gold restrikes:

    What would be a reasonable premium to purchase over gold spot if the medals were in a slab and 65 cameo or better ?

    Just curious , thanks.

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,834 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Justacommeman said:
    Alright I’m glad this thread has gone to show and tell. These I picked up from Cardinal. The 5 oz gold is fun

    m

    Damn those coins are as big as the deck they are on !

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • ParadisefoundParadisefound Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My humble collection of the smaller ones ...... they are really pretty being grouped together varied in size as well as metal content :)
    I am trying to exchange the NGC to PCGS ;)

  • KudbegudKudbegud Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice arrangement @Paradisefound


  • emeraldATVemeraldATV Posts: 3,959 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I feel lucky!

  • emeraldATVemeraldATV Posts: 3,959 ✭✭✭✭✭

    TSA Dad at 80 yrs old and keeps on ticking, 5 days a week. LOVE ya for how you handled us.
    Thought you might need this.

  • cardinalcardinal Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bidask said:
    Question on the 2000 and 2004 gold restrikes:

    What would be a reasonable premium to purchase over gold spot if the medals were in a slab and 65 cameo or better ?

    Just curious , thanks.

    The 2000 issue is 64 grams of gold, and only 500 were struck. The 2004 issue is 43 grams of gold, and 1776 were struck. For some reason, sellers price the 2004 issue higher than the 2000 issue. That doesn’t make sense to me!

    I have seen the 2000 issue sell for less than 150% of the spot price of gold. For the 2004 issue, sellers seem be asking 200% of the spot price or more. It may be that sellers acquired them when gold was higher, but I would expect they would negotiate a lesser price.

  • cardinalcardinal Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's the 1792 French version, with Libertas Americana replaced with Liberte Francoise:

    BTW, all three are the Maz-318a double weight version of the medal.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,301 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Which of the 2000 or 2004 gold medals is closer in size to the 2006 bronze & silver medals? I've wanted one of the golds ever since Cardinal posted his, way back when. :)

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting pick-up...congrats!

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug...
  • cardinalcardinal Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    Which of the 2000 or 2004 gold medals is closer in size to the 2006 bronze & silver medals? I've wanted one of the golds ever since Cardinal posted his, way back when. :)

    The 2000 gold medals are very close in size to the 2005/2006 bronze medals. The bronze medals are 47mm, and the 2000 gold medals are 46.8mm. The 2004 gold medals are 40mm.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,301 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The 2000 gold medals are very close in size to the 2005/2006 bronze medals.

    Thank you sir. That's a set I've always wanted to complete.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • ParadisefoundParadisefound Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I Liberated mine from the suffocated wraps :D

  • ParadisefoundParadisefound Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭✭✭

    <3

  • 23Pairer23Pairer Posts: 911 ✭✭✭

    Congratulations on a rare and beautiful medal! I have the "bug" as well.

  • ffcoinsffcoins Posts: 517 ✭✭✭

    I see a good portion of these (relatively, of course, since there aren’t many) that have sold have that copper plug in roughly, but not exactly, the same spot. Any idea why?

    @Kudbegud said:
    Not a re-strike, not Gold, not Silver. Not common, actual rarity. Population couldn't be any lower.
    From 1783. Tin with a Copper Plug.

    I was looking for a PCGS Gold Libertas, any re-strike year, but only found NGC. I don't have anything again'st NGC but want to keep grading slab consistency in my small collection of these. The uniqueness of this medal grabbed me and wouldn't let go. After several trips to the page and back I made an offer. The acceptance email was in my in-box when I awoke this AM. OK then. It's on it's way to me.

  • KudbegudKudbegud Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ffcoins said:
    I see a good portion of these (relatively, of course, since there aren’t many) that have sold have that copper plug in roughly, but not exactly, the same spot. Any idea why?

    No idea. I haven't seen but this one so I have nothing to compare positioning of the plug.
    Mine arrived Tuesday and it was bigger than I expected. About Silver Dollar size. The luster was also much better than the True View photo showed.


  • ffcoinsffcoins Posts: 517 ✭✭✭

    Interesting. Do a search on sold Libertas Americanas on Heritage, there were three or so with similar plus over the years.

    Definitely a cool thing to have!

    @Kudbegud said:
    @ffcoins said:
    I see a good portion of these (relatively, of course, since there aren’t many) that have sold have that copper plug in roughly, but not exactly, the same spot. Any idea why?

    No idea. I haven't seen but this one so I have nothing to compare positioning of the plug.
    Mine arrived Tuesday and it was bigger than I expected. About Silver Dollar size. The luster was also much better than the True View photo showed.

  • KudbegudKudbegud Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I found these 3


    The plug does seem to wander a little


  • ffcoinsffcoins Posts: 517 ✭✭✭

    @Kudbegud said:

    The plug does seem to wander a little

    Intriguing, isn’t it?

  • KudbegudKudbegud Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes
    Why were little copper plugs inserted?
    How were they inserted?
    How were they placed?


  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2019 11:07PM

    The copper plug was inserted to attract corrosion and limit tin pest in the rest of the medal. Many tin tokens from the era have been destroyed by tin pest. The copper plug defeated this and is the reason why these medals look much better than other tin pieces of the time, say the American Plantations tokens.

  • KudbegudKudbegud Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks Zoins. That makes sense. Like the magnesium or zinc anode rod in your water heater. Sacrifice the easier corroded metal to protect the important metal.

    I'm thinking the plugs were placed manually. See below for placement in reference to the foot.


  • ffcoinsffcoins Posts: 517 ✭✭✭

    The question is, were they placed after original production? I also saw some that don’t have them, but if you look at these plugs, they have details consistent with the design of the medal!

    That makes sense though, thanks for the info!

    @Zoins said:
    The copper plug was inserted to attract corrosion and limit tin pest in the rest of the medal. Many tin tokens from the era have been destroyed by tin pest. The copper plug defeated this and is the reason why these medals look much better than other tin pieces of the time, say the American Plantations tokens.

  • KudbegudKudbegud Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They would have to be placed before the strike for the details to show as you point out. The mint probably didn't go to the expense of making and utilizing a jig to insure consistent placement. But some procedure had to be in place for such a tiny copper plug to be inserted.


Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file