@ifthevamzarockin said:
I put anything I want in my SDB, it's not like they can open it to see if you are storing cash, diamonds, gold or guns.
I disagree. The bank can open you box anytime they want. Years ago my banker did just that as we were yakking and he just didn't think. Never took my key out of my pocket. When queried he said that the customer key is to prevent the wrong customer from opening the wrong box. His key was a master.....
Never had a box since I left that bank. Don't trust them
Now maybe things have changed since 1979. Maybe banks are all different. Maybe boxes are all different. Don't know.
bob
Mine would have to have the lock drilled indicating that they can't access it any ol time they want to.
That's what they commonly say, but I have always wondered whether that is true.
@BillDugan1959 said:
'Les sol etait le coffre fort de nos ancetres' - Old French saying.
Sorry I can't do the accent marks in the proper places...
Translation?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said:
Is private insurance available for SDB's?
Definitely. Best place to get insurance is Hugh Woods through the ANA. Cheapest rates by far, very little recordkeeping, and they cover SDB's among other storage scenarios. Other insurance carriers offer insurance on SDB's as well through riders on homeowner policies. I have found those rates are nowhere near as good as Hugh Woods.
Going back to the topic at hand, the reason many banks don't "allow" people to keep large amounts of currency in SDB is because it goes against their core business. There are no laws against it, but it could be against company policy to do so, same with gold. Banks would prefer you deposit the currency into their institution, so they can lend it out and collect interest on the loans they make with your money(fractional reserve banking). If a bank thought that funny business was going on with their SDB, they COULD voluntarily submit a SAR, however, FinCEN excluded the use of safe deposit boxes from the “transaction definition" of a SAR. Not sure why a bank would care about gold, that must be due to a specific circumstance with a branch or Key bank.
@thebeav said:
This is at Key bank.
Collectible gold coins are ok, they just specify no bullion.
**2. Contents of the Box: You can no longer store gold bullion or non-collectible domestic or foreign currency in your Box. Key is not liable for any loss, damage, or theft or other casualty of gold bullion or non-collectible domestic or foreign currency for any reason. (Safe Deposit Box Agreement Section 11 - Content) **
OK... I'll play.
Which of the following are Collectible Gold coins?
a)1907 high relief ms 62
b)1904 au 58 Lib
c)1904 Ms 62 Lib
d)Chinese Panda 2008 ungraded
e)Canadian Maple Leafs 2004 ungraded'
f)American Buffalo's ms70 2018
g)Am Buffalo 2018 MS69
g)St Gaudens 1924 ms 61
h)None of the above
@thebeav said:
This is at Key bank.
Collectible gold coins are ok, they just specify no bullion.
**2. Contents of the Box: You can no longer store gold bullion or non-collectible domestic or foreign currency in your Box. Key is not liable for any loss, damage, or theft or other casualty of gold bullion or non-collectible domestic or foreign currency for any reason. (Safe Deposit Box Agreement Section 11 - Content) **
OK... I'll play.
Which of the following are Collectible Gold coins?
a)1907 high relief ms 62
b)1904 au 58 Lib
c)1904 Ms 62 Lib
d)Chinese Panda 2008 ungraded
e)Canadian Maple Leafs 2004 ungraded'
f)American Buffalo's ms70 2018
g)Am Buffalo 2018 MS69
g)St Gaudens 1924 ms 61
h)None of the above
Excluding all foreign gold.
The only PL I researched is for the Buff, PL 109-145 (see highlighted below):
TITLE II--BUFFALO GOLD BULLION COINS
SEC. 201. GOLD BULLION COINS.
Section 5112 of title 31, United States Code, is amended--
(1) in subsection (a), by adding at the end the following:
`(11) A $50 gold coin that is of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, weighs 1 ounce, and contains 99.99 percent pure gold.'; and
(2) by adding at the end, the following:
`(q) Gold Bullion Coins-
`(1) IN GENERAL- Not later than 6 months after the date of enactment of the Presidential $1 Coin Act of 2005, the Secretary shall commence striking and issuing for sale such number of $50 gold bullion and proof coins as the Secretary may determine to be appropriate, in such quantities, as the Secretary, in the Secretary's discretion, may prescribe.
`(2) INITIAL DESIGN-
(A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided under subparagraph (B), the obverse and reverse of the gold bullion coins struck under this subsection during the first year of issuance shall bear the original designs by James Earle Fraser, which appear on the 5-cent coin commonly referred to as the Buffalo nickel' or the `1913 Type 1'.
`(B) VARIATIONS- The coins referred to in subparagraph (A) shall--
(i) have inscriptions of the weight of the coin and the nominal denomination of the coin incused in that portion of the design on the reverse of the coin commonly known as the `grassy mound'; and
`(ii) bear such other inscriptions as the Secretary determines to be appropriate.
`(3) SUBSEQUENT DESIGNS- After the 1-year period described to in paragraph (2), the Secretary may--
`(A) after consulting with the Commission of Fine Arts, and subject to the review of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee, change the design on the obverse or reverse of gold bullion coins struck under this subsection; and
`(B) change the maximum number of coins issued in any year.
`(4) SOURCE OF GOLD BULLION-
`(A) IN GENERAL- The Secretary shall acquire gold for the coins issued under this subsection by purchase of gold mined from natural deposits in the United States, or in a territory or possession of the United States, within 1 year after the month in which the ore from which it is derived was mined.
`(B) PRICE OF GOLD- The Secretary shall pay not more than the average world price for the gold mined under subparagraph (A).
`(5) SALE OF COINS- Each gold bullion coin issued under this subsection shall be sold for an amount the Secretary determines to be appropriate, but not less than the sum of--
`(A) the market value of the bullion at the time of sale; and
`(B) the cost of designing and issuing the coins, including labor, materials, dies, use of machinery, overhead expenses, marketing, and shipping.
`(6) LEGAL TENDER- The coins minted under this title shall be legal tender, as provided in section 5103.
`(7) TREATMENT AS NUMISMATIC ITEMS- For purposes of section 5134 and 5136, all coins minted under this subsection shall be considered to be numismatic items.
`(8) PROTECTIVE COVERING-
`(A) IN GENERAL- Each bullion coin having a metallic content as described in subsection (a)(11) and a design specified in paragraph (2) shall be sold in an inexpensive covering that will protect the coin from damage due to ordinary handling or storage.
`(B) DESIGN- The protective covering required under subparagraph (A) shall be readily distinguishable from any coin packaging that may be used to protect proof coins minted and issued under this subsection.'.
The description or definition of "collectible USA gold coin" was answered back in 1934 (Gold Reserve Act) and then updated a couple times since, last time in the 1960's. David Ganz has written extensively on this. In short, anything pre-1933 US is a "coin of particular interest and rarity" (ie collectible). And the 1960's rewrite went on to include nearly all foreign gold coins. As far as the more modern 70's and later stuff, who knows.
The IRS for capital gains treatment has generally "thought" of collectible gold coins as those bringing a 15% premium or more (ie non-bullion). The Patriot Act took another step and defined a "gold bullion-related" item as anything that brings a price within 2X the intrinsic metal value. Ironically, that would make a PCGS MS66 as "bullion-related."
@ifthevamzarockin said:
Mine says in the agreement that you will pay for a damaged box because of overloading with heavy items.
this makes sense and maybe a safety factor but its really none of their business what I put in the box, jmo
It doesn't even have to be damaged. I imagine enough weight in the box might bow the bottom and interfere with the removal and insertion of the box below. Mine are a pretty tight fit, though I don't know how thick the metal between the boxes is.
If only I had this problem of too much gold bullion...
I wish more of us had that problem as well. just saying
This looks really good. Thank you! Does anybody use this?
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
On private insurance be sure that coins AND BULLION are covered.
Even though it's gonna be in a SDB, underwriters can get antsy with stuff like coins and guns.
This looks really good. Thank you! Does anybody use this?
m
Same question here. Particularly interested in how payouts are handled. Do you just get the full amount insured for, since they don’t require any knowledge of what’s inside?
@OriginalDan said:
To answer my own question, it looks like you submit a claim for replacement value up to the amount insured for.
No info on whether they can dispute replacement value.
I couldn’t find that part either. I probably need to hang onto the receipt for the 91 million dollar rabbit I was going to stuff into my box
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@PerryHall said:
Is private insurance available for SDB's?
Definitely. Best place to get insurance is Hugh Woods through the ANA. Cheapest rates by far, very little recordkeeping, and they cover SDB's among other storage scenarios. Other insurance carriers offer insurance on SDB's as well through riders on homeowner policies. I have found those rates are nowhere near as good as Hugh Woods.
Interesting. I found Hugh Woods to be to expensive. I found 3 companies with policies better and less expensive. Just switched insurance coverage to a second carrier after 15+ years with the first. Hugh Woods not even in the running. Maybe it has to do with size of the policy.
Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
What kind of a gold bug would ever put their gold in a bank safety deposit box when there are plastic pipes that can be buried, floor safes installed or wall cavities covered over by drywall?
@Stuart said:
Makes me wonder if this is the US Government’s first step in Banning private Gold Bullion ownership, or perhaps even worse, laying the groundwork for Gold Bullion Confiscation...
I certainly hope not!!👿
(Disclaimer:👇NOTmy collection!😇 LOL🤣
Any of those would look great in my toilet tank, my freezer or as a doorstop in my garage.
That Dwight is such a kook!
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
Just remember during WWII the government opened every SDB inHawaii to make sure nobody had any currency in the that WAS NOT stamped with the “Hawaii” overprint. They also perforated all bearer bonds and stocks with the letter “H”. They prosecuted anyone caught with more than the legal limit of unstamped currency. Names were published in the paper, with almost all being of Japanese extraction. Big brother can do it again.
@bkzoopapa said:
Just remember during WWII the government opened every SDB inHawaii to make sure nobody had any currency in the that WAS NOT stamped with the “Hawaii” overprint. They also perforated all bearer bonds and stocks with the letter “H”. They prosecuted anyone caught with more than the legal limit of unstamped currency. Names were published in the paper, with almost all being of Japanese extraction. Big brother can do it again.
With no allowance for collectible notes, of course.
They should have had an alternative whereby older notes could be overstamped with "HAWAII" in indelible ink while the owner stood by and waited, but that was probably too much trouble. Would have made for some interesting collectibles.
Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
There was an alternative. You could fill out a form including serial numbers and apply to the Governor for a permit to retain certain notes. There are a few of these in existence including a #9 on charter #5994 First National Bank of Wailuku $5 Brownback. ![](https://us.v-cdn.
@Elcontador said:
Most banks don't allow currency to be stored, because of potential money laundering issues. Some banks may now see gold bullion in this light. I asked my bank about this a number of years ago; no issues with rare coins, at least not where I bank.
This my assumption as well. I store some currency in mine but it's a nominal amount, a few thousand USD with about half in foreign currency when I travel. I used to store both gold and silver bullion, but sold it a few years ago.
I could also see many banks or at least branches within a bank eliminating it. I don't know the percentage rented out, but seems like the total profit will be a rounding error.
With the coins I collect, I wouldn't be able to replace many if stolen. The financial risk can be covered through insurance but that doesn't help me replace the coins.
Comments
That's what I was told at my bank.
And they are specifically authorized for inclusion in IRA's. Govt approved.
Translation?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Is private insurance available for SDB's?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
'The soil was the strong box of our ancestors'.
I somehow added an extra 's' too. Sloppy, or spellchecker.
Google will do this translating all day long too, for free.
Establish your own security.... layers, and stop gaps. It is not complicated, and help is available for those not versed in security. Cheers, RickO
Definitely. Best place to get insurance is Hugh Woods through the ANA. Cheapest rates by far, very little recordkeeping, and they cover SDB's among other storage scenarios. Other insurance carriers offer insurance on SDB's as well through riders on homeowner policies. I have found those rates are nowhere near as good as Hugh Woods.
Going back to the topic at hand, the reason many banks don't "allow" people to keep large amounts of currency in SDB is because it goes against their core business. There are no laws against it, but it could be against company policy to do so, same with gold. Banks would prefer you deposit the currency into their institution, so they can lend it out and collect interest on the loans they make with your money(fractional reserve banking). If a bank thought that funny business was going on with their SDB, they COULD voluntarily submit a SAR, however, FinCEN excluded the use of safe deposit boxes from the “transaction definition" of a SAR. Not sure why a bank would care about gold, that must be due to a specific circumstance with a branch or Key bank.
>
Sorry. The ocean just came out with new rules.
OK... I'll play.
Which of the following are Collectible Gold coins?
a)1907 high relief ms 62
b)1904 au 58 Lib
c)1904 Ms 62 Lib
d)Chinese Panda 2008 ungraded
e)Canadian Maple Leafs 2004 ungraded'
f)American Buffalo's ms70 2018
g)Am Buffalo 2018 MS69
g)St Gaudens 1924 ms 61
h)None of the above
Excluding all foreign gold.
The only PL I researched is for the Buff, PL 109-145 (see highlighted below):
TITLE II--BUFFALO GOLD BULLION COINS
SEC. 201. GOLD BULLION COINS.
Section 5112 of title 31, United States Code, is amended--
(1) in subsection (a), by adding at the end the following:
`(11) A $50 gold coin that is of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, weighs 1 ounce, and contains 99.99 percent pure gold.'; and
(2) by adding at the end, the following:
`(q) Gold Bullion Coins-
`(1) IN GENERAL- Not later than 6 months after the date of enactment of the Presidential $1 Coin Act of 2005, the Secretary shall commence striking and issuing for sale such number of $50 gold bullion and proof coins as the Secretary may determine to be appropriate, in such quantities, as the Secretary, in the Secretary's discretion, may prescribe.
`(2) INITIAL DESIGN-
(A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided under subparagraph (B), the obverse and reverse of the gold bullion coins struck under this subsection during the first year of issuance shall bear the original designs by James Earle Fraser, which appear on the 5-cent coin commonly referred to as the Buffalo nickel' or the `1913 Type 1'.
`(B) VARIATIONS- The coins referred to in subparagraph (A) shall--
(i) have inscriptions of the weight of the coin and the nominal denomination of the coin incused in that portion of the design on the reverse of the coin commonly known as the `grassy mound'; and
`(ii) bear such other inscriptions as the Secretary determines to be appropriate.
`(3) SUBSEQUENT DESIGNS- After the 1-year period described to in paragraph (2), the Secretary may--
`(A) after consulting with the Commission of Fine Arts, and subject to the review of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee, change the design on the obverse or reverse of gold bullion coins struck under this subsection; and
`(B) change the maximum number of coins issued in any year.
`(4) SOURCE OF GOLD BULLION-
`(A) IN GENERAL- The Secretary shall acquire gold for the coins issued under this subsection by purchase of gold mined from natural deposits in the United States, or in a territory or possession of the United States, within 1 year after the month in which the ore from which it is derived was mined.
`(B) PRICE OF GOLD- The Secretary shall pay not more than the average world price for the gold mined under subparagraph (A).
`(5) SALE OF COINS- Each gold bullion coin issued under this subsection shall be sold for an amount the Secretary determines to be appropriate, but not less than the sum of--
`(A) the market value of the bullion at the time of sale; and
`(B) the cost of designing and issuing the coins, including labor, materials, dies, use of machinery, overhead expenses, marketing, and shipping.
`(6) LEGAL TENDER- The coins minted under this title shall be legal tender, as provided in section 5103.
`(7) TREATMENT AS NUMISMATIC ITEMS- For purposes of section 5134 and 5136, all coins minted under this subsection shall be considered to be numismatic items.
`(8) PROTECTIVE COVERING-
`(A) IN GENERAL- Each bullion coin having a metallic content as described in subsection (a)(11) and a design specified in paragraph (2) shall be sold in an inexpensive covering that will protect the coin from damage due to ordinary handling or storage.
`(B) DESIGN- The protective covering required under subparagraph (A) shall be readily distinguishable from any coin packaging that may be used to protect proof coins minted and issued under this subsection.'.
The description or definition of "collectible USA gold coin" was answered back in 1934 (Gold Reserve Act) and then updated a couple times since, last time in the 1960's. David Ganz has written extensively on this. In short, anything pre-1933 US is a "coin of particular interest and rarity" (ie collectible). And the 1960's rewrite went on to include nearly all foreign gold coins. As far as the more modern 70's and later stuff, who knows.
The IRS for capital gains treatment has generally "thought" of collectible gold coins as those bringing a 15% premium or more (ie non-bullion). The Patriot Act took another step and defined a "gold bullion-related" item as anything that brings a price within 2X the intrinsic metal value. Ironically, that would make a PCGS MS66 as "bullion-related."
Yep. All they need to know is the financial institution and the last two digits of the SDB number.
They don’t ask what’s in the box, they just insure for the value on the policy. No inventory or additional paperwork.
https://safedepositboxinsurance.com/
I wish more of us had that problem as well. just saying
This looks really good. Thank you! Does anybody use this?
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Maybe this is why the Saddle Ridge Hoard found the original storage box... a hole in the ground.
On private insurance be sure that coins AND BULLION are covered.
Even though it's gonna be in a SDB, underwriters can get antsy with stuff like coins and guns.
GUNS especially.
Check the rates AND the specified coverage.
Same question here. Particularly interested in how payouts are handled. Do you just get the full amount insured for, since they don’t require any knowledge of what’s inside?
To answer my own question, it looks like you submit a claim for replacement value up to the amount insured for.
No info on whether they can dispute replacement value.
I couldn’t find that part either. I probably need to hang onto the receipt for the 91 million dollar rabbit I was going to stuff into my box
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
It doesn't look bad.....200/year for a hundred thousand worth......
Basically .002 of a percent cost.......
Interesting. I found Hugh Woods to be to expensive. I found 3 companies with policies better and less expensive. Just switched insurance coverage to a second carrier after 15+ years with the first. Hugh Woods not even in the running. Maybe it has to do with size of the policy.
What kind of a gold bug would ever put their gold in a bank safety deposit box when there are plastic pipes that can be buried, floor safes installed or wall cavities covered over by drywall?
Any of those would look great in my toilet tank, my freezer or as a doorstop in my garage.
That Dwight is such a kook!
There's a reason they invented Kitty Litter.
I knew it would happen.
Just remember during WWII the government opened every SDB inHawaii to make sure nobody had any currency in the that WAS NOT stamped with the “Hawaii” overprint. They also perforated all bearer bonds and stocks with the letter “H”. They prosecuted anyone caught with more than the legal limit of unstamped currency. Names were published in the paper, with almost all being of Japanese extraction. Big brother can do it again.
With no allowance for collectible notes, of course.
They should have had an alternative whereby older notes could be overstamped with "HAWAII" in indelible ink while the owner stood by and waited, but that was probably too much trouble. Would have made for some interesting collectibles.
There was an alternative. You could fill out a form including serial numbers and apply to the Governor for a permit to retain certain notes. There are a few of these in existence including a #9 on charter #5994 First National Bank of Wailuku $5 Brownback.
![](https://us.v-cdn.
This my assumption as well. I store some currency in mine but it's a nominal amount, a few thousand USD with about half in foreign currency when I travel. I used to store both gold and silver bullion, but sold it a few years ago.
I could also see many banks or at least branches within a bank eliminating it. I don't know the percentage rented out, but seems like the total profit will be a rounding error.
With the coins I collect, I wouldn't be able to replace many if stolen. The financial risk can be covered through insurance but that doesn't help me replace the coins.
My property insurance covers me, I just keep good pics and records. That is, if I actually kept "something" somewhere in my home or business...
I have a SDB that BofA gave me in '91, but I've never used it. Always seemed unwise to me!