Help! Spot on MS64 Saint Gaudens, buy it or pass?

jimineez1 · June 5, 2019 1:13PM

I have a chance to pick up this coin at a good price, what do you think of it? Concerned about the spot on the Obv to the right of her head:

Pickwickjr · June 5, 2019 1:15PM

If it’s cheap I would buy it, I’m not crazy about the coin myself( the spot/ dirt). But if it’s cheap there’s not much of a down side.

Gazes · June 5, 2019 1:16PM

Not my series but in general spots don't bother me on gold if they are not prominently located. This one would bother me because my eye goes straight to it. Also, the coin itself does not impress me although I can't really comment on the grade from a pic.

HighRelief · June 5, 2019 1:18PM

Could be a copper spot.

BillDugan1959 · June 5, 2019 1:24PM

If a coin doesn't appeal to you at your first glance, or at your second closer glance, one should really move along to another piece. Coins are mass-produced objects, and you will have other opportunities.

You haven't detailed the price concession, so the rest of us cannot factor that in.

Pass. Lots of this stuff on the market right now.

jimineez1 · June 5, 2019 1:31PM

Thanks for the input!
FWIW, it involves a trade, but I'd have less than $50 above it's melt value into the deal if I converted to cash.... call it $1,335 +/- cash
I can't find another 64 near that .... any leads?
Don't love the spot, but thinking about going for it for such a small premium.

Swampboy · June 5, 2019 1:32PM

Agree with @BillDugan1959 100%.

You'll never 'unsee' that spot

ricko · June 5, 2019 1:33PM

In reference to the price... How 'good' is 'good'?.....As a collector piece, I would pass on this... for stacking, if the price is right, grab it. Cheers, RickO

PerryHall · June 5, 2019 1:38PM

You're buying gold at near melt value. I wouldn't be real picky. If you have the money suggest you buy it.

Walkerfan · June 5, 2019 1:41PM

Pass. It is a common date that is readily available.

Pickwickjr · June 5, 2019 1:41PM

I would take it for $1335, hardly any down side. Also not sure what your trading but gold is very liquid. What you are trading might not be as liquid.

PerryHall · June 5, 2019 1:44PM

@Walkerfan said:
Pass. It is a common date that is readily available.

Not at that price.

coinpalice · June 5, 2019 1:45PM

if you can get the coin for 50 dollars over spot, I would jump on it. there are no deals on gold on e bay right now because spot gold has jumped up about 50 dollars per ounce this past week

jwitten · June 5, 2019 1:46PM

Pretty darn good deal on a 64. I would take it.

coinbuf · June 5, 2019 1:46PM

If your thinking about this one as a flip I think it will be a tough sell unless gold moves up a fair bit. If your stacking then you may want to do it.

Insider2 · June 5, 2019 2:03PM

That is not a "spot." It appears to be a "strike-thru." If it is removed it will leave a depression on the coin.

MFeld · June 5, 2019 2:18PM

Unless you KNOW you can flip it for a quick and worthwhile profit, I’d definitely pass. Otherwise, there are so many others from which to choose, it makes no sense to settle for one that (for whatever reason) you don’t like.

matt_dac · June 5, 2019 2:42PM

Not for me with so many marks.

Kove · June 5, 2019 2:48PM

At that price I'd go for it. The downside is all related to the price of gold.

The spot is a little annoying, but the frost looks good. For a 64, it has issues as well as redeeming qualities.

291fifth · June 5, 2019 4:45PM

Pass. Overgraded with poor eye appeal.

BustDMs · June 5, 2019 4:46PM

Pass. Too easy to find a nice one.

CommemKing · June 5, 2019 5:11PM

Pass. There are millions out there that are nicer.

BryceM · June 5, 2019 5:16PM

If you already have a buyer and can immediately flip it, sure. If not....... why even consider it?

blitzdude · June 5, 2019 5:48PM

I'd certainly buy it at spot even with the spot. If you can get at that price do it.

jmlanzaf · June 5, 2019 5:48PM

I would buy it because carbon spots don't bother me. If it bothers you, don't buy it. No one's opinion but yours matters.

Gazes · June 5, 2019 5:52PM

@jmlanzaf said:
I would buy it because carbon spots don't bother me. If it bothers you, don't buy it. No one's opinion but yours matters.

lol--'he asked for others opinions

jmlanzaf · June 5, 2019 6:01PM

@Gazes said:

@jmlanzaf said:
I would buy it because carbon spots don't bother me. If it bothers you, don't buy it. No one's opinion but yours matters.

lol--'he asked for others opinions

LOL Gee, thanks, I don't read very well.

My point is that only he knows if that coin is worth his money.

Is there any point in asking @ricko if you should buy a rainbow Morgan?

morgandollar1878 · June 5, 2019 7:42PM

If you are getting it somewhere around spot price, then who cares? If it is considerably more than spot then I would pass.

cameonut2011 · June 5, 2019 8:20PM

Forget about the spot - that is one ratty looking 64! It's a hard pass for me.

roadrunner · June 5, 2019 9:02PM

Melt value on that coin today is $1287. They are more than an ounce but at only 90% gold.

Before the market for these crashed to nearly nothing a single spot like that was a -$25 deduction....multiple spots was -$50 or so. While it is more like 63 quality, it's not a bad play on the price of gold. These do trade sight-unseen. Better to get one unspotted for $25-$50 more. Down the road, the problem free ones that are solidly graded may expand their premium to melt a lot faster than scruffy ones. Look for some real nice PQ 64's at not much more money. They still show up from old time collections hitting the coin shops.

I'd buy that at $1335 if only that Rarcoa and Heritage probably pay at least that for them. Their wholesale sells on XF raw Saints is in that range. I ran into a gold buyer last month when gold was $1280 who was trying to buy decent raw sliders for spot money (not melt)....and he couldn't find any....and now gold is $50 higher. It's in a holder and it's not terrible. Good spec on price gold imo. But there is a $50 difference in the sight-unseen price of unspotted 63 to 64 Saints. Even a 63 at that price is not bad at all.

It's a Saint....not a Morgan dollar or Walker. They are graded differently.

ReadyFireAim · June 6, 2019 3:56AM

I have a spot coin also.
If it doesn't bother you, buy it

Kkathyl · June 6, 2019 3:57AM

It’s bullion and cheap. I would buy

REALGATOR · June 6, 2019 4:17AM

I rate it as ok: Middle of the road at best with the "black spot" and contact marks. If you're in a hurry then buy it.

Cougar1978 · June 6, 2019 6:52AM

Pass

asheland · June 6, 2019 9:48AM

I'd wait... Because they can look like this if you are patient:

ColonelJessup · June 6, 2019 2:36PM

Whatever the label says is at this point meaningless
1) Over-graded - purely on marks MS63- and poor lustre for date and type
2) Lady MacBeth may moan but @insider2 cautions the "divot" could release a witch's curse
3a) John Albanese calls this "fancy bullion".
3b) Walter Breen called this "junque"
3c) The bullion traders call this "basal state value".
3d) The spreads will murder anyone.
3e) If your name is "Tommy" and you think you play a mean enough pin-ball, buy this.. otherwise...

DennisH · June 6, 2019 3:03PM

Pass.
There are too many out there and this does not look like a 64.

csdot · June 6, 2019 3:10PM

1924 is by far one of the most common dates you can find for Saints. Pass, and get a less common issue.

Insider2 · June 6, 2019 3:29PM

@ColonelJessup said: "Over-graded - purely on marks MS63..."

I was waiting for someone to post this. After looking at the label and then looking at the obverse I would have never even turned the slab over to see the spot!

ColonelJessup · June 6, 2019 3:55PM

That was "Overgraded - purely on marks MS63 minus"

MFeld · June 6, 2019 3:56PM

@Insider2 said:
@ColonelJessup said: "Over-graded - purely on marks MS63..."

I was waiting for someone to post this. After looking at the label and then looking at the obverse I would have never even turned the slab over to see the spot!

I’m extremely impressed. You just confirmed rumors I’d heard, that you could see a coin’s reverse without turning it over.😮

ColonelJessup · June 6, 2019 4:34PM

@MFeld said:

@Insider2 said:
@ColonelJessup said: "Over-graded - purely on marks MS63..."

I was waiting for someone to post this. After looking at the label and then looking at the obverse I would have never even turned the slab over to see the spot!

I’m extremely impressed. You just confirmed rumors I’d heard, that you could see a coin’s reverse without turning it over.😮

Veterans such @MFeld and @MrEureka will recall this ability has previously been attributed to one and only one numismatist, coin dealer Robert L. "Bobby" Hughes. There was an urban legend that Bobby could look at twice as many coins because he never looked at the reverses.

Bobby went broke a lot. :'( :'(

Was it spelled Neytronix?

BillJones · June 7, 2019 4:30AM

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48009467156_16c89a1171_b.jpg

The strike looks really weak to me when you look at it in this photo. For that reason I would pass. I won't be happy with the coin in the long run.

Compare it with this one. or most any St. Gaudens $20 gold.

Insider2 · June 7, 2019 8:46AM

@MFeld said:

@Insider2 said:
@ColonelJessup said: "Over-graded - purely on marks MS63..."

I was waiting for someone to post this. After looking at the label and then looking at the obverse I would have never even turned the slab over to see the spot!

I’m extremely impressed. You just confirmed rumors I’d heard, that you could see a coin’s reverse without turning it over.😮

I've heard a similar rumor. A professional TPGS employee told his grading students to speed grade the coins using the obverse only to reach an opinion! LOL.

Your post is also funny but remember there are lots of folks here who may miss the humor. As most of us know, there is a VERY BIG DIFFERENCE between grading a coin for an auction/class/post/etc. and buying one. When a person is considering buying a coin they can rule it out in a few seconds if they don't like the first thing they see. So why turn it over?

MFeld · June 7, 2019 9:18AM

@Insider2 said:

@MFeld said:

@Insider2 said:
@ColonelJessup said: "Over-graded - purely on marks MS63..."

I was waiting for someone to post this. After looking at the label and then looking at the obverse I would have never even turned the slab over to see the spot!

I’m extremely impressed. You just confirmed rumors I’d heard, that you could see a coin’s reverse without turning it over.😮

I've heard a similar rumor. A professional TPGS employee told his grading students to speed grade the coins using the obverse only to reach an opinion! LOL.

Your post is also funny but remember there are lots of folks here who may miss the humor. As most of us know, there is a VERY BIG DIFFERENCE between grading a coin for an auction/class/post/etc. and buying one. When a person is considering buying a coin they can rule it out in a few seconds if they don't like the first thing they see. So why turn it over?

That’s an excellent point. And it reminds me of the biggest transition I had in becoming a grader. Prior to that, if I didn’t like the look of a coin, I simply passed on it and moved on to the next one. But as a grader, I had to either put a number on each coin or give a reason why it shouldn’t be given a number. I couldn’t just skip the ones that didn’t appeal to me.

ColonelJessup · June 7, 2019 9:19AM

@Insider2 said:

@MFeld said:

@Insider2 said:
@ColonelJessup said: "Over-graded - purely on marks MS63..."

I was waiting for someone to post this. After looking at the label and then looking at the obverse I would have never even turned the slab over to see the spot!

I’m extremely impressed. You just confirmed rumors I’d heard, that you could see a coin’s reverse without turning it over.😮

I've heard a similar rumor. A professional TPGS employee told his grading students to speed grade the coins using the obverse only to reach an opinion! LOL.

Your post is also funny but remember there are lots of folks here who may miss the humor. As most of us know, there is a VERY BIG DIFFERENCE between grading a coin for an auction/class/post/etc. and buying one. When a person is considering buying a coin they can rule it out in a few seconds if they don't like the first thing they see. So why turn it over?

DISAGREE - We've taught a class together and our educational methods differ.
Neither of us has taught at ANA for a while, and their teaching format may have morphed under Rod Gillis, the new Education Director at ANA/Florence Shook, but his format for teaching grading likely hasn't changed much. He still loves the classroom and he knows his students. And how they learn. And I agree.

If I have twenty newbies and intermediates who are afraid they know nothing and are afraid to show it., a speed-grading drill is great for
a) breaking the ice.
b) demonstrating that a student's perceptions, even if untrained, are useful.
The speed itself is useful for desensitizing a student's embarrassment for making mistakes. Everyone's entitled to get it wrong when you're a non-pro with only 10 seconds to get it right.

Got your glass?
Obverse only, grade these 5 Morgans. No plus grades.
You have 75 seconds.
Exhale, and pass the stack to the guy on your right.

It's like flash cards. Gestalt awareness and integration has been used for a long time.
After 50 coins a strong majority will hit 80%. if you're grouping the coins to increasingly tend towards the higher grades some are uncomfortable "climbing to" at first.

Your point about a potential buyer not needing to turn the coin over is valid.
However, notwithstanding and nevertheless, please do not embarrass yourself further than you've already done by trying to distract us from your blindness to your blindness.

ReadyFireAim · June 7, 2019 9:19AM

BTW...24's are silky and cabinet friction will make the light bounce in a different direction.
There is no way that it looks as bad as the picture.
Mine is a 66+ that I can make look horrible at the wrong angle.

See where there is "friction" all over her dress?
If I blast it with a flash at an odd angle, it will make it look like the OP's coin.

The OP's coin looks like a solid 64 to me.
Sometimes bad pictures happen to good coins

Timbuk3 · June 7, 2019 1:15PM

Pass, copper spots are too distracting !!! :'(

Insider2 · June 7, 2019 1:30PM

Our teaching methods are very different. Nevertheless, I really wish I had taken a full weeks course from you! See PM.

lkenefic · June 7, 2019 2:49PM

I think it depends on why you're buying it. If you're stacking gold, then the number on the plastic is not too much of a concern. Buy... but, if you're looking for a type coin for a collection... I think it's sort of baggy with a weak strike and that very noticeable spot... 63, and I'd pass... but I'm more of a type collector.

jimineez1 · June 9, 2019 11:46AM

I appreciate all of your thoughts, thanks!
The seller ended up being a little flaky in our last email exchange, but I was ready to pass on it anyway thanks to some of your posts here. I found a pcgs 63+ instead that appears to be a better coin and was slightly cheaper to boot. I’ll have it in hand this week and expect it to meet my needs.

Help! Spot on MS64 Saint Gaudens, buy it or pass?

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