What would be your analysis of an eBay seller who did the following??

keets · May 24, 2019 3:51AM

1). Has good quality pictures of coins that are toned.
2). Never shows the capsule, only enlarged pictures of the coin.
3). Prices them at a steep premium over listed guide prices.
4). States "no returns" in their listing.
5). Answers e-mail requests for "pictures of the coin in the holder" but is always away from the location where the coin is, at a show, and never complies with the request.

I have been following listings by this particular seller for a few months now and can't seem to get any pictures of the holdered coin(s) from them, so despite their feedback ratings I have hesitated to make a purchase. Any thoughts or experience with this sort of behavior??

Thanks in advance.

Al H.

Aercus · May 24, 2019 3:59AM

4 and 5 indicate this is likely going to be a difficult person to deal with. However, as has been mentioned many times on here, there is no such thing as 'no returns' on eBay. If you can hammer out a fair price, and the coin is hard to find elsewhere, you could take a gamble.

PerryHall · May 24, 2019 4:00AM

Too many red flags. Pass.

OPA · May 24, 2019 4:04AM

If the coins are listed on ebay, and you like them, go ahead & bid. The coin category does not qualify as having the option of: "NO RETURNS," regardless of what the seller posts. ( if the coin is listed in the bullion category, then the NO RETURN would be applicable.) On the other hand, there are other sellers in the "big pond" who'd love your business.

winesteven · May 24, 2019 4:12AM

I have learned over the years that despite today’s technology of high resolution photos, a coin in the hand is often quite different than those photos - sometimes better, sometimes worse. As such, when buying on eBay, I would never buy a coin from a seller with a no return policy, despite the claims of @Aircus that on eBay there’s no such thing as “no returns”. Why get into that hassle? Is a coin really worth that stress?

With that said, most of my purchases are at auction, also with virtually no easy return policy. But with that, I have established positive relationships over the years with key HONEST, unbiased people at those firms, and I have them look at the coin in hand before I place any bids.

MFeld · May 24, 2019 4:21AM

One possibility is that perhaps the seller doesn't own the coins, but has permission from the owner to list them for sale.

Cameonut · May 24, 2019 4:31AM

Pass - not worth the drama.

keets · May 24, 2019 4:33AM

yeah, I understand that there is really a "return policy" in this case, but as winesteven has posted, do I really want that hassle?? the answer is "NO" which is why I haven't purchased the coin(s) yet(all auctions are BIN with no "offer" option). I suppose the best course of action is to hope for some pictures.

BTW, my reasoning for in-holder pictures is because it often gives a very good idea of actual color. we all know what an insert should look like so it can be possible to tell any manipulation.

giorgio11 · May 24, 2019 4:39AM

This sounds like a company I have encountered on eBay ... nice coins, never a slab, no returns, although I have never contacted them to ask for slab shots ... and I have never purchased from them either.

Kind regards,

George

astrorat · May 24, 2019 4:46AM

@OPA said:
If the coins are listed on ebay, and you like them, go ahead & bid. The coin category does not qualify as having the option of: "NO RETURNS," regardless of what the seller posts. ( if the coin is listed in the bullion category, then the NO RETURN would be applicable.) On the other hand, there are other sellers in the "big pond" who'd love your business.

I am not quite sure what you mean. Lots of coins are listed with "Seller does not accept returns" as one of the standard eBay return policy options. While filing an SNAD reason for a return may bypass the 'no returns' policy, sellers are offered a 'no returns' policy option when listing their coins.

291fifth · May 24, 2019 4:52AM

Pass.

ricko · May 24, 2019 5:06AM

For all the reasons you listed, I would pass....I just do not like hassle... life has enough hassles that occur despite caution. No need to add to the hassle heap. Cheers, RickO

Aercus · May 24, 2019 5:20AM

@winesteven said:
I have learned over the years that despite today’s technology of high resolution photos, a coin in the hand is often quite different than those photos - sometimes better, sometimes worse. As such, when buying on eBay, I would never buy a coin from a seller with a no return policy, despite the claims of @Aircus that on eBay there’s no such thing as “no returns”. Why get into that hassle? Is a coin really worth that stress?

With that said, most of my purchases are at auction, also with virtually no easy return policy. But with that, I have established positive relationships over the years with key HONEST, unbiased people at those firms, and I have them look at the coin in hand before I place any bids.

Yes, there are returns for "not as described" on every item. Sellers can list "no returns" all they want, but they have to accept a SNAD. eBay gives them literally no choice.

That being said, I agree with you that it's probably not worth the hassle. I recommended only to purchase if a) fair priced can be reached, which seems unlikely given the inflexible seller, b) if keets wanted to gamble. I personally would not bother unless the coin was a cherrypick.

On another note, I wish eBay would just remove "no returns". It confuses people and makes them distrust the platform. If you won't stand behind your item, why list? I have 30 day returns and have not had issues with buyers returning.

dpoole · May 24, 2019 5:26AM

I think their lack of response of any kind to your questions is a serious problem. It flags difficulty for any situation that may come up with them. Also, the routine "No Returns" stipulation says a great deal about their customer service mindset.

keets · May 24, 2019 5:37AM

just for clarity, they have responded to me as I stated but they just never provided pictures, just an excuse as to why there are none.

also, though I am not the "Giver of the POTD Awards" I think RickO begs consideration for coinage of the term Hassle Heap!!! that's a good one.

U1chicago · May 24, 2019 5:42AM

The part about not complying with the request is the most bothersome for me as it suggests that you cannot truly trust their word. If they don’t want to do it, they should just be upfront about it and save both parties some time.

I’m not a stickler about returns (unless something is misrepresented), but I do believe a full slab photo should always be included. I’ve run into sellers that only use the coin photo or only a TruView (maybe even the same seller that is mentioned in the OP) and I tend to pass on these unless the price is low enough to take a risk. As mentioned by @keets the full slab image can be very important in determining if the photo has been enhanced and it’s also nice to know if the slab is in decent shape (it’s not big, but I’d prefer not to have to deal with the costs and extra time needed to fix a scratched or broken slab).

winesteven · May 24, 2019 5:49AM

@U1chicago said:

I’m not a stickler about returns (I’m ok with factoring that into my risk tolerance), but I do believe a full slab photo should always be included. I’ve run into sellers that only use the coin photo or only a TruView (maybe even the same seller that is mentioned in the OP) and I tend to pass on these unless the price is low enough to take a risk. As mentioned by @keets the full slab image can be very important in determining if the photo has been enhanced and it’s also nice to know if the slab is in decent shape (it’s not big, but I’d prefer not to have to deal with the costs and extra time needed to fix a scratched or broken slab).

That's a good tip/valid point - something new I learned today! While I don't sell much on eBay, when I do, I use the photos of the auction house or dealer from whom I purchased the coin, and sometimes a photo of the coin in the holder is not provided. Going forward, I'll also include in an eBay listing my own amateur slab photo, explaining the difference in quality. Thanks for the tip!

derryb · May 24, 2019 5:50AM

@OPA said:
The coin category does not qualify as having the option of: "NO RETURNS," regardless of what the seller posts. ( if the coin is listed in the bullion category, then the NO RETURN would be applicable.)

This "option" applies only when a top rated seller wants to get an additional 10% FVF fee discount on a coin he is listing and has to choose between returns or no returns. Returns/no returns is a seller's choice, even with coins. As far as I know there is no ebay rule requiring a seller to take returns on coins. It remains optional when creating a listing.

Cougar1978 · May 24, 2019 5:52AM

2,3,4 make this no go for me

I question if he even wants move his material on eBay unless some big fish.

He’s moving them at shows (narrow spread to be competitive) using eBay trawl for big fish, high margin.

I won’t do business w seller who has no returns nor complete photo of the slab (it could be chipped, scratched).

As I am buyer only to flip at shows / online his prices would send me away. I think a lot of them have shills too as lately lost all auctions w this one large seller of graded notes where my bid should have taken it.

I reply promptly to buyers emails / offers many times meet them halfway on an offer. One fellow ended up buying 4 or 5 coins from me over a period of a few days.

eBay can cost seller 15 pct of sales or more shows have fixed table fee and travel cost if out of town.

keets · May 24, 2019 6:51AM

I reply promptly to buyers emails / offers many times meet them halfway on an offer. One fellow ended up buying 4 or 5 coins from me over a period of a few days.

such is the case here. the seller has two coins which are of interest to me with a not-too-high premium, the slab pictures being OK I would probably buy both of them.

ElmerFusterpuck · May 24, 2019 7:05AM

The "no returns" is a turn off for me. I've seen something similar from another Ebay seller; returns are allowed for slabbed coins, but not for raw. The raw ones are nicely toned Canadian coins, but with a steep premium. Steep BIN premiums are another no go, come to think of it.

DIMEMAN · May 24, 2019 7:12AM

@keets said:
yeah, I understand that there is really a "return policy" in this case, but as winesteven has posted, do I really want that hassle?? the answer is "NO" which is why I haven't purchased the coin(s) yet(all auctions are BIN with no "offer" option). I suppose the best course of action is to hope for some pictures.

BTW, my reasoning for in-holder pictures is because it often gives a very good idea of actual color. we all know what an insert should look like so it can be possible to tell any manipulation.

You can always "offer" even though there is not an offer button. Just contact seller and make an offer.

Broadstruck · May 24, 2019 7:25AM

@keets said:

such is the case here. the seller has two coins which are of interest to me with a not-too-high premium, the slab pictures being OK I would probably buy both of them.

Have you sent another message mentioning just that?

As that has to be incentive to get you slab pics unless the seller just doesn't care if the coins sell or not.

OPA · May 24, 2019 7:29AM

@derryb said:

@OPA said:
The coin category does not qualify as having the option of: "NO RETURNS," regardless of what the seller posts. ( if the coin is listed in the bullion category, then the NO RETURN would be applicable.)

This "option" applies only when a top rated seller wants to get an additional 10% FVF fee discount on a coin he is listing and has to choose between returns or no returns. Returns/no returns is a seller's choice, even with coins. As far as I know there is no ebay rule requiring a seller to take returns on coins. It remains optional when creating a listing.

I was referring to SNAD cases. ( I should have made that clear in my comment )

MasonG · May 24, 2019 7:30AM

@derryb said:

As far as I know there is no ebay rule requiring a seller to take returns on coins. It remains optional when creating a listing.

Let your buyer claim the item he received is "not as described" and see how far you get pointing out that there is no eBay rule requiring you to accept a return.

rawmorgan · May 24, 2019 7:37AM

Unless this is a coin or coins that you absolutely have to have......this isn't worth the trouble. You have asked for something specific, they have not provided it. Time to move on.

Coin Finder · May 24, 2019 7:40AM

So not going to play that game, especially now... Hard pass..

Bigbuck1975 · May 24, 2019 7:46AM

Let me guess T.B.C., drives me batty if it’s them

CRH4LIFE · May 24, 2019 7:46AM

I would make one purchase just to satisfy your need from the seller. Then move on as you already seem to know there are to many red flags.

CRH4LIFE · May 24, 2019 7:47AM

Given my response I gamble often. My money could be gone in the wind or spent on one purchase that turned sour. I could take a burn to ease my curiosity

YQQ · May 24, 2019 7:48AM

Many sellers have a NO return policy for certain types of coins. They simply want to get rid of the item!
Remember, NOBODY has to bid or buy!!
example: sharp and clear images are posted of G graded coins. All defects are visible and or described. simply said, these coins are "junk" and a buyer will have no choice but to see and read it.
there is NO way a coin like this will fit SNAD definition. What will the buyers excuse be when filing a claim? will he clearly say one of a few possible replies:
A: I did not see it or read it?
B: I was hoping for better coins?
C: I just do not like these as they are ugly?
or will he be honest and say: I wanted to check for Varieties and resell at a profit?
E: my young daughter was playing with my computer and accidentally pushed the right buttons?
any other choices?
Ebay will not allow a return!
Ebay will look at his previous record also

MasonG · May 24, 2019 9:03AM

@YQQ said:
there is NO way a coin like this will fit SNAD definition. What will the buyers excuse be when filing a claim? will he clearly say one of a few possible replies:

A: I did not see it or read it?
B : I was hoping for better coins?
C : I just do not like these as they are ugly?
D : or will he be honest and say: I wanted to check for Varieties and resell at a profit?
E : my young daughter was playing with my computer and accidentally pushed the right buttons?
any other choices?

Or maybe...
F : Item is not as described.

And when he does, eBay will not allow a return? Don't be so sure about that.

slider23 · May 24, 2019 9:25AM

Pass

keets · May 24, 2019 9:34AM

SNAD.

asheland · May 24, 2019 11:25AM

I'd pass, not worth the headache.

derryb · May 24, 2019 11:25AM

@MasonG said:

@derryb said:

As far as I know there is no ebay rule requiring a seller to take returns on coins. It remains optional when creating a listing.

Let your buyer claim the item he received is "not as described" and see how far you get pointing out that there is no eBay rule requiring you to accept a return.

While claiming SNAD gets one around a no return policy, it is clearly not the same as a seller honored return. Like I said, there is no ebay rule requiring a seller to take returns on coins. SNAD is a completely different animal.

Broadstruck · May 24, 2019 11:28AM

@keets Are the coins common or something you wouldn't see again for years if passed on?

Since if they are scarce that changes things as you might just have to bite the pillow

nencoin · May 24, 2019 11:57AM

I thought eBay required that coins listed as PCGS or NGC had to have a picture of the slab. Way back in the day we used to not provide slab images for our eBay listings until we were informed that we had to start doing so. I'd be surprised if this rule has changed.

AUandAG · May 24, 2019 11:59AM

After reading all the responses I ask you, does the seller post the cert number? If so be sure to look it up and see if it has sold at other venues or has a TV to go with. Perhaps he's the one toning them? That could be a good reason for not posting slab pics as then you'd have the cert number.

bob

MasonG · May 24, 2019 12:26PM

@nencoin said:
I thought eBay required that coins listed as PCGS or NGC had to have a picture of the slab.

They used to, but it appears it's not required anymore.

ChrisH821 · May 24, 2019 12:50PM

I would lean towards not dealing with this seller. I guess if you really want to know you can buy something inexpensive from them first.
To echo what @AUandAG said, it could be possible they don't want people to know what they paid if they bought previously at auction.

TomB · May 24, 2019 12:53PM

I expect that it is a seller who neither owns the coins nor has physical possession of them and, very likely, the true owners have no idea that their coins are being offered by this person. In my opinion, this is too similar to what I see a number of ebay sellers do and it irks me.

cameonut2011 · May 24, 2019 1:00PM

@PerryHall said:
Too many red flags. Pass.

This.

Dave99B · May 24, 2019 1:06PM

keets · May 24, 2019 1:36PM

thanks everyone for your perspective and words of wisdom. I think the best thing for me to do is pass.

kbbpll · May 24, 2019 9:05PM

If seller is never around the coins to photograph them, how are they going to ship them?

Seller is hiding something. Pass.

1Mike1 · May 25, 2019 2:55AM

Have you looked the coins up to see if they have sold in the past on eBay? Its possible someone else may have bought them and returned them. Usually in that case I assume there is a problem. If not, it might be worth a little hassle to get a couple of nice coins.

derryb · May 27, 2019 4:32PM

Latest ebay coin, currency and stamp policy

Hemispherical · May 27, 2019 4:58PM

@derryb said:
Latest ebay coin, currency and stamp policy

@derryb

Thanks, good info. Also, within your provided link there is a “Coins & Paper Money discussion board” and this is the link:
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Coins-Paper-Money/bd-p/28

What would be your analysis of an eBay seller who did the following??

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