Should I buy this? 5 ounce gold round
burlguy
Posts: 71 ✭✭✭
There is a 2005 5 ounce gold $100 union on Ebay right now. They struck 300 in 2005. The US treasury is said to have stopped them from including $100 Dollars on the reverse in the years that followed.
The New York mint which is now Gov mint was trying to buy all the 2005 strikes up and called me this last year asking if I would like to sell mine back to them.
Considering how many they struck, how many have been melted down as bullion, and how many where returned to the mint, is this a sleeper that I shouldnt pass up?
Will this be worth more than a bullion strike considering the controversy?
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@burlguy
That is a nice looking piece! Five ounces of gold to boot.
IMO. Based on current spot, $6921.50 does not appear to much of a premium for five ounces and it’s encapsulated.
Snapshots of the pics.
a 5 ounce gold coin would be almost impossible to sell. the Pirth mint struggles to sell their 2 ounce gold coins with a population of 500. they almost never sell out. stick with the most popular size 1/2 ounce $10 dollar
@burlguy - so you have one already or did you sell to Gov Mint?
It's a small premium over bullion so you have to want it to buy it. I agree with @coinpalice that it has a limited market when you try to sell it. You might do better to get a couple rare slabbed gold coins. It is nice though.
Yea, I dont get it. You're asking us if you should buy one and talking about the company trying to buy one back from you?
Are you acquiring a duplicate 5oz??
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I have a silver !!!
How much was their buyback offer?
I think he is saying that he has one, and the private mint that made it has offered to buy it back because of the problem the private mint had with the U.S. Treasury.
Meanwhile, here is one on eBay so you can see what he is talking about.
To OP: If my guess is correct, a question: How much is the private mint offering you relative to spot gold? What about the shipping? Something like this needs to go Registered Mail, and it is going to cost you around $45 to ship.
TD
Thank you for reading my post.....
I do have one.
They did not offer me a price but rather asked me what I needed for it. It was a strange conversation, almost like they needed to acquire it. I told them I would get back to them with a price but later decided that I wanted to keep it.
The 5 ouncers commonly sell but you dont see the 2005 issues much at all. Most of them have likely been reclaimed.
If everyone thinks its not a good buy and the population has been getting less and less maybe I should jump on it?
Could be a good sleeper in 30 years. Its not a bad markup over spot, $100 an ounce or so.
On another possible sleeper first year issues of the 2.5 ounce 2008 Agustus Humbert Commemorative. Of the 350 struck theres a remaining population around 200. People that bought them sold them back to the mints and the commemoratives where destroyed. Got this info from the horses mouth.
It is a medal with considerable gold content. It is not a coin. The addition of the designation UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS probably makes it subject to confiscation. Do counterfeiting laws cover this type of thing?
If I recall correctly, the original private mint had some sort of deal with the Smithsonian on these. If so, then the likelihood of confiscation would be minimal, even if the project may have been in technical violation of the law at the time of issue (if indeed it was).
That said, you have a decision to make. Did you buy it from the private mint itself? If so, how much over spot did they sell it at? It seems to me that if they NEED one for whatever purpose they should be willing to pay you your original premium over spot.
And please edit the title of the thread to something that reflects what you actually meant to say.
You can spend that at my table for a hundred bucks anytime you want!
How about... Should I buy this 5 ounce gold round?
I fail to see what should be changed..... or why.
In fact with the ongoing conversation that is happening I should buy it and thats why I started this thread.
As Bongo Bongo so eloquently said 10 years ago:
IF YOU BUY WHAT YOU LIKE, AT A PRICE YOU CAN AFFORD AT THE TIME, THEN THINGS WILL BE EASIER.
IF YOU BUY WHAT OTHER PEOPLE LIKE, BORROW TO FUND IT AND EXPECT MULTIPLES OF RETURN, THEN YOU ARE LIKELY TO BE UNHAPPY.
BONGO SAY NEARLY EVERYTHING DEPRECIATES OVER TIME.BONGO WOULD NOT PAY $500 FOR A SILVER BELL THIS XMAS AND EXPECT IT TO BE WORTH $550 NEXT YEAR. BUT BONGO KNOW A SILVER BELL IS NOT OLD COIN.
OR IS IT.
BONGO MAYBE NOT SURPRISED THAT OLD COIN IS LIKE ANY OTHER LIMITED NON ESSENTIAL COMMODITY AND SUBJECT TO THE WHIMS OF TASTE AND MARKET.
PUT THE COIN IN BOOK AND ENJOY IT.
IF IT IS WORTH MORE WHEN YOU COME TO SELL IT, WELL DONE
IF NOT, THEN YOU HAVE HAD ENJOYMENT OUT OF IT.
REMEMBER THAT OLD COIN IS ONLY WORTH FEW DOLLARS IN PHYSICAL MATERIAL VALUE - THIS IS WHY VALUE IS AN ESOTERIC CONCEPT IN MANY WAYS AND IT MAY BE VULGAR TO ASSIGN ANY MONETARY VALUE TO OLD COIN
UNLESS YOU ARE A RUSSIAN OLIGARCH OR CHINESE SHODDY GOODS FACTORY OWNER
Who struck these?
Note that it is likely not be violation of counterfeit laws as it does not include "In God We Trust."
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
I believe if you read the scroll above the eagle on the reverse you might find it there.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
It says "In GOD We Trust" in the scroll above the eagle.
The New York Mint struck them in association with the Smithsonian Institute back in 2005 until they where bought out and merged into the Govmint.... If the Smithsonian had not been involved there would have been a likely confiscation or buy back mandate, and there may still be a buy back mandate. They removed $100 from all future years.
I'm a little bit confused by the term "sleeper" here. In my experience, a "sleeper" in US numismatics is an issue that is far tougher than most realize and that will be harder to find in the proper condition or with the proper look when a set is built. I expect you are using the term the same way, but I must ask a simple question. That is, how many folks are putting together sets or 5-ounce bullion rounds minted from private mints? I would expect that number to be vanishingly small and, as such, the demand (and, hence, upwards price pressure due to the demand) to be small, as well. It is a heck of a chunk of change to have reserved for private mint speculation.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
It is a beautiful looking coin / medal in my estimation. It is about $400 over spot - all things considering, that isn't so bad. If you went to buy 5 K-rands or 5 Eagles you would be paying about $100 over spot for the five with a dealer
Because it is not a known bullion coin, you may have trouble finding a dealer willing to take it off your hands the same way they would if it were a government or reputable private bullion issuer.
Personally, I love the design, the size and the metal content. If I knew I could sell it for close to spot with some dealer down the road in the future, I would have no issue paying the $400 over spot for the enjoyment of owning the coin.
The NGC stamp of approval also adds a lot of legitimacy and ease for future sell.
Since it has no stated gold content and was NOT struck by the US MINT it is likely to be a tough sell down the road. Bullion buyers want to see weight and content stated clearly on non-coin issues. I would expect most bullion buying dealers would offer well below melt for a medal like this if they were willing to buy it at all.
As long as it’s not our money 😵😱
The TPG authentication is good for potential resale, however, the market is so small for such a large gold medal, that liquidity will always be an issue. I believe you would be better off with five gold Buffalo coins... Cheers, RickO
Bongo Bongo has spoken.
I knew it would happen.
I would sell it to Gov mint and get 5 oz of 1 oz coins or bars. I would prefer having the ability to part with one at a time rather then sell one down the road. That’s my opinion but if money not a worry keep it and enjoy.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
Yes I would buy it
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
if burlguy doesn't buy it, this coin will be still listed a year from now
Me too!
How about "Should I buy this? Or sell mine?"
I would spend that money on a real coin, but that's me.
As will 98.4% of all the other coins currently listed on Ebay.
If someone is buying these up to melt them, it might be worth keeping one or two. I like the 5oz gold because that’s about the size a real one would be.
I have about 5 of the silver ones with the “One Hundred Dollars” denomination and will occasionally pick up another when it’s available for a reasonable price. I cracked 2 out of their slabs and they are nice and hefty raw in hand.
The original question was “would this be more worth than bullion”?
Not to me.
I would never pay more than spot for that coin and as of others of said, I would not consider anything other than 1 ounce or’s, anyway. Way too hard to dispose of.
I'd buy it if I thought I'd get $500 worth of enjoyment in owning it. I've done worse with "real coins".
I knew it would happen.
Your rationale for considering this purchase is one of speculation.
Unless you already have a well diversified portfolio, you should not be speculating so the answer is no, you should not buy it.
If you do have a well diversified portfolio and can accept the downside risk of speculation, then the answer is yours alone.
@BurlGuy If you’re referring to the coin pictured below, I’m pleased to hear that since I own one. — It’s a beautifully detailed Ron Landis restrike...👍😁
1852 Augustus Humbert $50 Gold Commemorative (2008) - Ron Landis Proof Restrike
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
As pictured the imaginary $100 Union is a counterfeit. The piece purports to be a coin issued by the United States and lacks the legally required word "COPY."
If you already have one and the primary motive is potential appreciation from future demand down the road I would pass and diversify into something else.
Agree -- maybe cow chips, or frozen cow parts....
I am pretty sure this is the case...... It generates a ton of interest whenever one is posted. It is a Mint Design and had been very close to production and there are some references that it could have been struck but there are no surviving specimens to prove it.
Will this curiosity amount to an appreciation in 20-30 years......?
Disagree. How can a coin that has never existed be a counterfeited? It's considered to be a "fantasy coin".
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@ Original poster:
If this private-issue gold medal was an outstanding opportunity, why hasn't somebody else bought it during the two days that you have been dithering?
Doesn't that tell you anything?
This smells a lot like spam...Greater fool?
They dropped their price. It's about 7% over melt value.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
another point, nobody is watching the auction, if there was interest, there would be watchers
Anything that purports to be a US coin and which is not issued by the United States is, by definition, a counterfeit. The phony $100 token clearly says "United States of America" and has a denomination of "One Hundred Dollars." Those two statements - in and of themselves - are a legal representation that the piece is legal money. That is all that is necessary. (If the manufacturer of these counterfeits has substituted "Five Ounces Gold" then it would not be a counterfeit.)
The public must have faith in their currency/money and must be able to trust that a piece that looks like money and purports to be money, is in fact, a legal tender. A problem like this is clearly implied in your statement: "How can a coin that has never existed be a counterfeited?" You call it a "coin" even though you clearly understand it is a worthless (as money) token.
Slugs and other false pieces are also covered by the counterfeiting statutes - and they are often blank.
The Hobby Protection Act provides the ONLY exception by REQUIRING the word "COPY" be stamped on all replicas, fantasy pieces or anything else that might possibly be confused with a legal coin.
IMO this is one of the more attractive 5 Oz Gold Bullion Rounds... But the 5 Ounces of Gold cost of entry is a very high hurdle for most collectors.
I own the 1 Oz & 2 Oz similar design versions, which were purchased around the year 2000 when gold prices were Below $300/Oz — Much more affordable...👍😁
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
I'd rather have the Johnson Matthey piece myself...
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I may be spamming it a little.... I am using the forum to determine where the possible value will be in the future. I am considering all the input. I am not rich and have a limited budget annually to invest with, I gamble a little and it has paid off for me.
Burlguy, as a fellow gold lover and gold stacker, a 5 oz. piece in any form (bar or round) and any subject matter makes me nervous. Such a limited audience to sell to if you ever needed to move it quickly. That’s just my opinion, your results may vary. Good luck with whatever you decide!
98% of melt. In the long run, hhow many of these medallic issues eith high intrinsic value have any collectible value?
What will melt value be in 30 years?
If we are trying to base future value on past gold commemorative strikes I cant lose. But is this something that a couple generations from now will look upon with interest?.....
My questions and theories that have been raised by everyones input.
1.How many will want a 5 ounce counterfeit $100 Union Issued by the Smithsonian?
It seems like there is a real intrinsic and collector value present here. If they continue to destroy them the market will only need to support a handful of collectors as thats all that will remain.
2.What would need to change to make this desirable to the collectors market?
More of a customer base aware of the convoluted and controversial history of the $100 union counterfeit. It really does appear to meet all the criteria for a counterfeit. Smithsonian involvement or not.
3.Perhaps a forced buyback?
This may be occurring and not generally known.
4.Destruction of all 2005 issue as they where deemed unauthorized by the treasury?
I know this is happening from the buyback attempt and follow up conversations. They are being melted into new bullion.
5.Will there be a dozen people in the collectors market with pockets deep enough to pay the fair market value?
There always is...... Either through auction house or Fleabay.
I know that I am partially blind and have my own agenda but this is what I see.