Sweet merciful creator, a 1964 Kennedy just sold for $87,187.50!
DCW
Posts: 7,644 ✭✭✭✭✭
It is a 1964 "SMS" Half dollar.
Thoughts?
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
8
Comments
I am shocked..........................
Such a rare coin, and unusual to have two in the same grade offered within two weeks at auction. I suspect the spot on the obverse put some bidders off this example, although, look at the # of trackers - 95! - A lot for a Kennedy Half Dollar!
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
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The spot over the "I" held the price back...
Smitten with DBLCs.
I'm speechless (but laughing on the inside) and would need a box of crayons to try and make sense of this?
Don't get me started on the 1964 SMS coins! The fact that they are required in the MS sets is totally outrageous! They should be in the Proof sets like the 65-67 SMS coins!
The cent went for $13,000 with fees...
WS
Wow!
I can't even go to the trouble of typing out the Latin...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whom_the_gods_would_destroy
To each his own I suppose...
I’m happy for the consignor.
I fully thought it was a $100K coin without that spot on the obverse. These certainly don't come up often. For that reason, I'm by no means shocked at the ending price realized.
Well, except this month where you could've had two in the same grade, right?
The jury is still out on these 1964 SMS sets. I would be scared as hell to buy in at this level without some kind of documentation that they are what they are being advertised as. Experimental strikes and not just very early strikes as has been suggested by forumites like @RogerB
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Guess there are some die-hard Kennedy collectors out there. Probably good news for the hobby as a whole.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
I can think of many other coins I’d rather have at that price.
As Yakoff Smirnoff says, "Coin collecting.What a hobby."
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
It’s great that everyone doesn’t collect the same or has the same tastes
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
A Satin proof P$ 5-8 minted, can be had for less than that. Crazy
What are the diagnostics? Congratulations to Great Collections and the consignor!
A few weeks ago one in the same grade sold at the Central States Heritage Auction for $108k. The one that sold tonight looks like the better piece to me. Not saying that this one tonight didn't sell for crazy money though.
Really? Where? $87k for a proof Peace Dollar sounds incredibly cheap (i.e. as in it might be "hot"/stolen property or counterfeit).
Yes. It gives us all hope.
What makes this a specimen and not just a regular 1964 half?
The coin market doesn't look weak from this perspective!
I don't understand why CAC will sticker Ikes but not early Kennedy halves.
From coin facts:
Jaime Hernandez: Plain and simple, the 1964 Special Strike Kennedy Half's are not suppose to exist. However, there are about a dozen or so examples which have surfaced in the past 15 years. Therefore, it is the scarcest non error or variety Kennedy Half Dollar in existence.
The 1964 Special Strike Kennedy Half dollars display very unique characteristics unseen on any other coins of the era. First of all, the strike is very sharp as it displays very clear details on both the obverse and the reverse. The coins also contain a smooth satin like appearance with the rims being very square and sharp. There are die polishing lines throughout the coins surfaces. These coins also tend to lack contact marks unlike business strike coins, indicating that they were struck and handled under extreme care. Furthermore, the coins do not display the reflective surfaces that are usually encountered on proof coins.
These 1964 Special Strike Kennedy Half’s were first noticed in 1993 when they appeared in a Stacks auction. Apparently, the coins originated from Lester Merkin who was a well known coin dealer. His collection was later consigned to Stacks. It is also believed that Lester Merkin initially acquired the coins from a Mint employee or Eva Adams who was former Director of the U.S. Mint.
Coincidentally, there are also other Special Strike coins in different denominations that exist for this date. These include the Lincoln cent, Jefferson nickel, Roosevelt dime and the Washington quarter. There is also about one or two dozen sets believed to exist for each of these denominations.
In numismatics there are also other coins which are not supposed to exist, such as the 1933 Saint Gaudens double eagles and the 1913 Liberty nickels. It also took years before some of these coins ever surfaced, and the entire circumstances in how they eluded the U.S Mint is also a complete mystery. Although, the 1964 Special Strike coins are not necessarily in the same league as other classic rarities, they do tend to have the same mysterious history behind them. The fact there are also very little examples of these coins in existence and much cheaper than other legendary coins, only makes them much more desirable to a lot of collectors.
As of September 2009, PCGS has only certified 12 examples of the 1964 Special Strike Kennedy Half Dollars in all grades combined. In conclusion, this also makes it the scarcest of all the 1964 Special Strike coin denominations produced.
Ron Guth:
One of the interesting diagnostic features of the Specimen Strike 1964 Half Dollars is a small, raised defect that appears to hang from the crosslet of the 4. This defect has been seen on all examples except one. In an admittedly rare hypothtical situation where one of these remarkable coins was spent, the defect can be used to confirm the original status of the coin.
I wonder who picked this up. I didn't see one in Hansen's set.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/half-dollars/kennedy-half-dollars-specialty-sets/kennedy-half-dollars-complete-variety-set-proof-1964-present/alltimeset/185409
Or silver Roosevelt Dimes or pre-1965 Jefferson Nickels or proof 1950-1964 Washingtons, etc.
I get John only has an interest in making markets in certain fields, but Ikes would be low down on my priority list.
Hmm... This could be any number of business strike pieces.
So many better coins than a Kennedy half dollar to spend that kind of money on.
And this week’s winner in the create a category is....
Paging Roger Burdette...Roger Burdette to the thread...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I can see the bat signal in the Gotham skyline...
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
All of my '64 mint sets are accented hair, so no need for me to go check them...
Cheers, RickO
$10,000 buyers fee
Wow
Must nice to have and Extra 10k to throw around.
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
Well -- those collectors that can afford them and want them are free to buy them. And they will continue to be
controversial for a long long time -- Just ask Roger Burdette!!
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Previous discussions have stated - very clearly - the nature of so-called "1964 SMS" coins. No need to repeat it.
The Kennedy half in the OP is a nice $8.00 coin. Imagine what could be learned if the premium paid, $87,179.50 [$87,187.50 minus $8], were applied to meaningful research, or simple digitization of manuscript documents.
everyone is quick and witty when it comes to a critique of what others do and spend their money on. maybe it's better to just keep quiet and enjoy your own pursuits, but that's part of what makes the Hobby interesting. this coin is not something I would buy but it is legitimate and if memory serves me correctly it is going up in price. pity the poor fool who makes money on this expenditure.
I think you recognize that as a high price for a coin and more so considering 'it's a 1964 Kennedy'. I don't believe the OP started the topic expecting members to "STFU" and quite expectedly shared their thoughts on the unique sale and price. This reminds me of the Lowell W auction thread some weeks ago.
Matt, the gist of some replies is that the buyer is foolish.
I'm surprised you believe that a coin collected by millions with a mintage under "20" is an $8 coin.
Can you explain your logic, please?
Not nearly so many people collect bust dollars yet the 1804 goes for millions.
...And it's much more common...
He has posted previously that (and I'm paraphrasing here) he doesn't think the 1964 SMS coins were specially made. And if one doesn't think the coins were specially made, the $8 figure might make sense.
Edited to add - actually, he has stated as fact that the coins were not specially made. Here is a post of his from another thread: "The bogus "1964 SMS" coins are simply very early strikes off new dies. Compare with the documented piece in the Smithsonian. They are part of the normal range of coins struck from production dies. Nothing more."
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Maybe when all collectors who were born between 1930 and 1980 are long dead the view of the majority of those participating in the hobby towards US Coinage made between 1934 and 1999 will change.
I assume disdain for currently circulating US Coinage has been present in the hobby since the hobby took hold in the USA in the mid 19th century (i.e. Barber Coinage).
The above said, I would not be a buyer of 1964 SMS Coins at the prices that they are bringing today for two reasons. #1. Not an area that I devote my hobby attention to; and #2. Do not want to tie up, for me, large amounts of money in any coin.
Those with the passion for these coins and who choose to purchase same at today's prices may end up being very wise ten years down the road. Of course they may also end up being not very smart.
I favor the Garrett '95 $10 MS66+ CAC at $2.5M over the Eliasberg '13 5c PR66 CAC at $4.5M because the former melts for more, not because it's a bigger shinier bauble. Not because it oozes historicity rather than notoriety. Not because it is esthetically superior. I just like to say it because it makes me feel smarter
Specie is Specie. The rest is narcissistic self-aggrandizement. Why should specie, unless it's a 1933 $20, need paperwork?
BTW, I consider both over-graded. 1) 65+, scratch in front of the face. 2) Dull striated "mirrors" with eye appeal of a 64.
It's a matter of taste. not bibliographic cross-referencing.
Now ask me if I think this (only some think it's special) intrinsically valued eight buck coin will perform better over the next 5 years than a 1907 HR $20 66 CAC?
I consider both over-rated.
1984 - the first 30 seconds I saw the (raw) KOS 1804 $1 (now 67 no CAC) I graded it 65-
2000 -The first 0.3 seconds I saw the (holdered) Childs' 1804 $1 PR68 (no CAC) I graded it 66-
I hope my snobbery is clearly manifest.
I have the biases of a dinosaur.
Notwithstanding that, I am sufficiently curious about coins and the coin market to now, caring not the least about its technical characteristics nor bona fides, to study the price structure of these SMS pieces. In addition to being a coin geek, I'm a math geek. I want to see what Fibonacci has to say about the series. He can't grade them either.
To (sort of?) paraphrase @keets, I get off on seeing what floats other peoples' boats, sometimes in ways they themselves might not appreciate.
However, modern deconstructionist theory simply classifies you and I as geeks
As @homerunhall used to say "Have fun with your nuances books coins"
I bet my dinosaur can beat up your dinosaur (and it might be even more heavily fossilized).
!964 SMS can be identified without a great deal of learning.
I had reason to believe I could pick up a complete set of these back in '93 for a few thousand. I probably would have done it if I had the chance to choose the set.
The nickel sold for $23,500.
OK.
I've never actually seen one so I can't gainsay it.
It is true that fresh strikes off new dies have a different appearance and it is similar to the SMS '64 coins as I've seen in photos.
I like the look a lot and it was very "rare" before the advent of mint sets in 1965. Only ten or twelve strikes have this appearance so finding them among the other half million made by each die is difficult. But mint sets after 1964 employ lots of new dies used under higher pressure so nearly . 03% have the new die appearance.
50
Cent piece ?
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5