High coin prices.
ironmanl63
Posts: 1,974 ✭✭✭✭✭
Has anyone been able to find what you would consider a deal on any coins? Personally I have not payed under PCGS price guide in quite a while. It seems like in the past I was able to find nice coins for under price guide.
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Not much anymore. Too many dealers forget to "farm" their inventory and rotate the crop and replant with what there's a market for.
No. Anything I buy is instantly 20% underwater. Ebay is where I used to buy the majority of my coins, now it is where I buy 0% of my coins.
Except for very rare instances, eBay has become totally worthless to me. Fifty percent over sheet is normal; 100% is not unusual. Only about 5% of the listings that come up in my main search are auctions, and only about 30% of those have bids. Current example: 20,792 listings, of which just 357 have bids. Heritage and Great Collections are looking better and better.
Well, that's not good. As someone who hasn't bought in a long time, and might want to again, I was thinking eBay would have been a good choice. Maybe there are some other online auction places less popular than eBay, where deals still can be found??? Otherwise, time to hunt garage sales, estate sales, collectible shops, or pawn shops???
Rocking my "shiny-object-syndrome"!!!
For coins that I have looked at, ebay is high... guess they have to cover fees etc.. Most other places are also at the high end....I keep hearing about a tight market, but prices may be what is keeping it tight. Of course, it may just be my champagne taste and beer pocket book....
Cheers, RickO
Obvious it depends on what coins you're interested in.
Right now, I have a top-pop 1941-S
non- fullstep Jefferson Nickel (pop=4) listed on eBay as a BIN for $425.
PCGS price guide lists it at $900.
So far no takers.
It's a finicky world out there on eBay.
They're either eventually getting what they ask, or they don't want to sell anything. At least for what I've been looking at. Anything where bidders can actually set the value is crap. I contacted one seller and said, hey, you're asking more than price guide and it's in an ICG slab, how about at least putting Make Offer on it? Wouldn't budge. 3 months later, it's still relisted, over and over. I don't get it.
I think market at point for many if can’t get asking price not for sale. I have no trouble getting what I ask. It may take awhile.
Here’s an example:
PCGS price guide: $2150.
This coin sold for $1800 on ha 3/19 & is listed in fleece bay BIN for $2495 + $25, shipping
Yeah. There are deals out there. They require patience and a lot of time.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
On the 17-S obv 50c PCGS 55 CDN bid is 1800.
No the seller is not going to give a really nice key coin like that away. A 40 pct markup over bid is par for the coin business. 1.40 x 1800 = 2520. The coin is fairly priced IMO. I would sell it at that myself or even push price to $2600 if really PQ.
I’ve paid like double on eBay for something that was picked up on Heritage. I still wanted it so it was ok, but because I’m essentially buried, I limit what I buy to things I won’t generally upgrade. If a lot of people do this, it may impact the prices of upgradeable coins.
There can be fun in the hunt
I agree!! I have a complete set of Buffalo 5c on there now with key dates that I thought would clear $2200. Opening bid reduced to $1600 with no takers yet! Funny because a similar complete set without the key dates sold for $1900!!
https://www.ebay.com/str/brandbonez
This is what I have up for sale.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/showcase/6602
Wait a minute!!!
PCGS price guide: $2150.
Coin sold for $1800 at Heritage Auctions March of 2019 & is now listed on E Bay "Buy It Now" for $2495 + $25, shipping.
Let's assume we are all sophisticated collectors here. We all have access to Coin Dealer Newsletter (Greysheet) and PCGS Price Guide. Why would one pay $2520 for a non CAC coin that one would end up selling at a similar auction for $1500 plus 20% Buyer Commission or $1800 and would net $1500 less seller's 17.5% commission or $1237.50?
But, I guess that makes sense after all. In the old days we used to think of normal retail markup as being 100% of cost and getting around that by selling at an auction where there was a 20% seller's commission and no buyer's commission.
On the other hand, $1800 is probably today's true market value for the coin. Hopefully, it will not drop in value in the future.
I don’t agree with the poster to whom you responded that a 40% markup is “par for the coin business.” It might be for some dealers, but I believe that the average markup in the industry is much less than that.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
i got my best deals on e bay when a seller just lists a coin and i'm one of the first to look at it, and it's way under gray sheet, I hold my breath and hit the buy it now hoping I get the payment through before someone else does
as a seller, the only way I can compete with dealers like ampex is when they have the sell any priced item for a flat rate $10 dollar flat rate final value fee or want to break even
I agree and hopefully, the average markup among coin dealers is much less than 40%.
However, from a collector's point of view, buying a coin at auction for $1500 plus a 20% Buyer Commission or $1800 net and then later hoping to breakeven by later selling it at auction for $1500 less the seller's 17.5% commission or $1237.50 net works out to be a 45% loss for the collector.
Hopefully, it would sell for $1800 net again the second time around?
i sell 99.9% of my coins at many % back of pc price guide
In the example he gave, the coin resells for $1500 (hammer price implied), which amounts to $1,800 with the buyer’s premium. However, I doubt that many sellers pay a 17 1/2% seller’s commission.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
My understanding is that many sellers pay 20%, but if you are a big name seller or have great coins you can negotiate less of a seller’s commission, like 104% of hammer which is 16.8% seller’s commission.
I was referring specifically to the seller’s commission, as distinct from the buyer’s premium.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
How does seller's commission work then? My understanding, and what has been discussed here, is that the seller gets a negotiated rate based on hammer, e.g. 100% of hammer, 104% of hammer, etc. I then calculate the seller's commission by taking the difference from percent of hammer and the total price.
<<< No the seller is not going to give a really nice key coin like that away. A 40 pct markup over bid is par for the coin business. >>>
A ridiculous and completely untrue statement.
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
The buyer’s premium is fixed. On the other hand, the seller’s commission varies, based on the auction company and the particulars of the consignment. Yes, the seller typically gets a rate, based upon the hammer price.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Operating on eBay has certain costs based on my experience.
15 of percent sales as a ballpark number - eBay selling cost. This includes shipping.
If the seller wants to make a commission of 10 pct of sales plus add 5 percent to cover fixed non eBay overhead this adds to a 30 pct margin or 1.43 markup over sales.
YES in my view 40 pct markup over bid appears my best estimate par for the coin business. One large NN advertiser around 50 pct. Various analysis of dealer ads in numismatic publications I have performed confirms this plus the eBay analysis above, not to mention many of my fellow sellers set up on the bourse. A high volume big ticket show seller (gold bullion dealer) most likely may be able do this for less but not much if travel factored in. If you add employees and Brinks for a show Expense adds up further.
For me (show) goal (selling markup over cdn bid) 10 pct for wholesale 20 pct for retail. Here one is paying a fixed bourse fee not variable selling expense.
I made a mistake in my earlier calculation. A 104% seller rate against a 20% BP would be a 13.33% seller commission.
The calculation is:
Seller Commission = 1 - ( Seller Hammer Rate / (1+ Buyer's Premium) )
So for 104% Seller Hammer Rate and 20% PB we would have:
Seller Commission = 1 - ( 1.04 / 1.20 ) = 13.33%
I think markup depends on the value of the coin and how readily you can sell it. A 5% markup may be the norm for a 1913 Liberty Head nickel that is probably sold after the first phone call. For $100-ish common stuff that will takes months or years to find a buyer, 40% may be necessary to make it worth the dealer's time to list it for sale and/or drag it to shows.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
I am glad I am not the only one who has paid through the nose. My collection is probably under water now after years in the black.
The last five PCGS AU55s auctioned by Heritage have sold for:
$1,800
$1,800
$2,640
$2,340
$1,800
Maybe $2,495 is not unreasonable, after all?
That’s an average price realized of $2076. Based on that and the fact that the collective bidders arrived at a price of $1,800 for the coin in question, $2495 sounds quite high to me.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Which goes to show auctions are often not the final arbiter of coin values.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Price guides are just that...guides. They are not set in stone. Ultimately it is what the buyer is willing to pay. Eye appeal is one indicator that moves the needle in either direction. Supply & demand. Timing. It really is a slippery slope.
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The collective bidders at that time and place did indeed arrive at a price of $1,800 but there's no reason to conclude that a different group of bidders in another venue would likewise agree on that value, is there? As $2,495 is within the range of prices paid for the similarly graded coins listed, it doesn't appear to be an unreasonable price, based on price alone, IMO.
It depends on what you're selling. I don't think many people are paying a 40% mark-up on five, six, and seven figure coins. I have seen large national dealers sell some coins for under 5% markup as their initial asking price.
With an average of $2,100, if he added eBay fees (10%) + PayPal fees (3%), it would come out to $2,413.79. I think many sellers are pricing their coins at full retail + overhead. It isn't a realistic business model.
I just sold a coin on eBay for 2x catalog that I bought at auction for half catalog. The coin was listed with the "Make offer" option but sold for full BIN price about 12 hours after being listed. Granted, the price levels (my coin and the WL half) aren't even in the same ballpark, but I don't think it's possible to make a blanket statement about what's realistic and what's not. Different segments of the market function well with different models.
How many would you like?
None. I don't collect US coins, but thanks for asking.
I find eBay prices largely have gone nuts and a large percentage of the auctions are for junk.
And that's how one makes money with their hobby. Collect something in a field with limited information.
In answer to your question, no. I’m not looking at just the asking price and the other results. Right or wrong, I’m placing a good amount of emphasis on the previous price realized for the particular example being discussed.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Ok- thanks.
Personally, I've never attended a coin show in my life. So I don't really get any deals.
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Why? Are there none near where you live or do you just don't like coin shows?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I've been fortunate, most of what I've gotten is between 75 and 90% of CDN. Occasionally I'll pay full or bid or slightly over, but not often. I have a few friends who are coin dealers I work in the industry so it helps when I buy stuff. Very rarely do I buy coins online...
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I'm from Oklahoma City. So no FUN shows for me. In addition, I'm a college student. I currently don't have time to attend the local shows, let alone the national shows.
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