Here are some key points (IMO):
1. It's not if CAC agrees the grade is accurate, but does CAC feel it is SOLID for the grade (A or B, not C)?
2. There are 253 in that AU58 grade (74 by PCGS, 179 by NGC). Only 24 have a CAC (less than 10%). As we know from your case though, there are some of the 253 that have not been submitted to CAC.
3. Without a CAC, they seem to sell for $4,500 - $6,500, depending on eye appeal. According to the research reported in the March 2019 issue of Mark Ferguson's CAC Market Values, with a CAC they sell for $7,000 - $9,000.
4. The most important question is, based on the above, at this price level, why in the world would one not spend $14.50 plus round trip shipping to give it a shot, even though the odds are less than 50/50? @blackhorse360, you absolutely made the right decision to give it a shot. I wish you luck. Regardless of the outcome, you have a very lovely and special coin!
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
@winesteven said:
Here are some key points (IMO):
1. It's not if CAC agrees the grade is accurate, but does CAC feel it is SOLID for the grade (A or B, not C)?
2. There are 253 in that AU58 grade (74 by PCGS, 179 by NGC). Only 24 have a CAC (less than 10%). As we know from your case though, there are some of the 253 that have not been submitted to CAC.
3. Without a CAC, they seem to sell for $4,500 - $6,500, depending on eye appeal. According to the research reported in the March 2019 issue of Mark Ferguson's CAC Market Values, with a CAC they sell for $7,000 - $9,000.
4. The most important question is, based on the above, at this price level, why in the world would one not spend $14.50 plus round trip shipping to give it a shot, even though the odds are less than 50/50? @blackhorse360, you absolutely made the right decision to give it a shot. I wish you luck. Regardless of the outcome, you have a very lovely and special coin!
Congratulations! NGC and cac agree with one another; as usual some of the pundits were not right on this one.
As an aside, I have owned several 1866 $20s and they are important coins, first year type II, nice design, hair on Miss Liberty is more aesthetic. One I bought as an MS60, NGC looked better; another MS60 was Anacs that looked nice, but baggy. I showed it to Salzberg at the Baltimore show as I had tried to cross it at both NGC and PCGS, no luck. I asked Mark why? He said it it not Unc., I should have asked him the basis for their rejection than just taking him at his word. Where is the wear, why did Anacs call it 60 and not the other graders? Then I walked it over to the Anacs table and Randy Campbell and he said he liked it as a 60 or 61. So not only did he see it as good for grade but even better. Later I was unable to sell it at Teletrade with a reserve level and ended up selling it back to the chiropractor in Arkansas, "Oxford Co." taking a $1000 loss. Maybe I should have tried ebay.
@logger7 said:
Congratulations! NGC and cac agree with one another; as usual some of the pundits were not right on this one.
As an aside, I have owned several 1866 $20s and they are important coins, first year type II, nice design, hair on Miss Liberty is more aesthetic. One I bought as an MS60, NGC looked better; another MS60 was Anacs that looked nice, but baggy. I showed it to Salzberg at the Baltimore show as I had tried to cross it at both NGC and PCGS, no luck. I asked Mark why? He said it it not Unc., I should have asked him the basis for their rejection than just taking him at his word. Where is the wear, why did Anacs call it 60 and not the other graders? Then I walked it over to the Anacs table and Randy Campbell and he said he liked it as a 60 or 61. So not only did he see it as good for grade but even better. Later I was unable to sell it at Teletrade with a reserve level and ended up selling it back to the chiropractor in Arkansas, "Oxford Co." taking a $1000 loss. Maybe I should have tried
Congratulations! I read the entire thread for the first time today, and was pleasantly surprised (especially after all of the definitive posts telling you the coin would not pass muster) when I got to your recent post saying your coin got the sticker.
@logger7 said:
Congratulations! NGC and cac agree with one another; as usual some of the pundits were not right on this one.
As an aside, I have owned several 1866 $20s and they are important coins, first year type II, nice design, hair on Miss Liberty is more aesthetic. One I bought as an MS60, NGC looked better; another MS60 was Anacs that looked nice, but baggy. I showed it to Salzberg at the Baltimore show as I had tried to cross it at both NGC and PCGS, no luck. I asked Mark why? He said it it not Unc., I should have asked him the basis for their rejection than just taking him at his word. Where is the wear, why did Anacs call it 60 and not the other graders? Then I walked it over to the Anacs table and Randy Campbell and he said he liked it as a 60 or 61. So not only did he see it as good for grade but even better. Later I was unable to sell it at Teletrade with a reserve level and ended up selling it back to the chiropractor in Arkansas, "Oxford Co." taking a $1000 loss. Maybe I should have tried
What do you think it’s worth with the CAC sticker
You could ask cac what they would pay and then extrapolate from that. Greysheet is a good indicator of cac bid sometimes.
Here is another 1866 $20 story. I had one I sent along to "Coin Restoration Service" with two other coins around 20 years ago, I don't remember why. Mr. Stockton obviously did something, I was upset when it came back. I then sent it to Anacs where it graded AU58 and I got good money for it from a major buyer.
@Cougar1978 said:
Increase in value -no. Will it sticker - could care less - would not waste my money or risk it in mail just for that. Appears to be a very nice AU58.
Wrong.
Should OP decide to sell the coin he will get more money for it with the CAC sticker so the value of the coin has increased.
congrats! i like it. you should get todd at blucc ( @blu62vette ) to photo it, or some other professional photographs. i don't think the photos you have are doing it justice.
@Cougar1978 said:
Increase in value -no. Will it sticker - could care less - would not waste my money or risk it in mail just for that. Appears to be a very nice AU58.
Wrong.
Should OP decide to sell the coin he will get more money for it with the CAC sticker so the value of the coin has increased.
Wrong. The value of the plastic has increased. The coin is still the coin and remains unchanged.
@Cougar1978 said:
Increase in value -no. Will it sticker - could care less - would not waste my money or risk it in mail just for that. Appears to be a very nice AU58.
Wrong.
Should OP decide to sell the coin he will get more money for it with the CAC sticker so the value of the coin has increased.
Wrong. The value of the plastic has increased. The coin is still the coin and remains unchanged.
Wrong Again. Look at auction results. I’m Just simply asking how much it increased in value with the CAC sticker. I don’t understand why you have to teach us all a lesson on the obvious. Of course the coin remains unchanged but with a CAC sticker it’s worth more. How much? That’s the question I’m asking
The value of a coin with the sticker rests with the end user - the person who will bid the highest in the country. The end user has always existed even before CAC. I do have CAC coins I regard as exceptionally PQ.
For me the sticker means one guy thinks it’s a nice coin an opinion I may or not agree with. Now I do see him as being a top grader. I may pay around a few bucks extra for a CAC coin buying it below the CAC bid in the sheet but never some 50- 100 pct premium - that’s for me at this time. The few I have their bid in the sheet is about 10-20 pct over non CAC and even at that I have buyer resistance on the bourse and these not priced over CPG. The online store has done better with CAC sales.
Everybody knows we are in a down, slightly south of steady market. Good luck in getting that huge CAC premium. Take the money and run.
Certainly the sticker may increase the marketability of the plastic but the real value of the coin is unchanged - CW Trends, TPG MV. In a down market like a planetary atmosphere being blown away by the solar wind that extra marketability diluted. I wish they (CAC) would do sticker svc at shows / buy stickered coins at their bid (sheet).
Let’s say somebody published a book - Investing in CAC Classic Commems complete with price guide both CAC and non CAC, pop rarity analysis, some commentary about the issue, CAC pct certified, graphs, etc. A real analytical gem of a work. Would u pay around $35 for it? I would.
@Cougar1978 said:
Increase in value -no. Will it sticker - could care less - would not waste my money or risk it in mail just for that. Appears to be a very nice AU58.
Wrong.
Should OP decide to sell the coin he will get more money for it with the CAC sticker so the value of the coin has increased.
Wrong. The value of the plastic has increased. The coin is still the coin and remains unchanged.
Wrong Again. Look at auction results. I’m Just simply asking how much it increased in value with the CAC sticker. I don’t understand why you have to teach us all a lesson on the obvious. Of course the coin remains unchanged but with a CAC sticker it’s worth more. How much? That’s the question I’m asking
A premium coin will fetch a premium in the absence of a sticker. Imputing all of the value to the sticker is misleading.
@Cougar1978 said:
Increase in value -no. Will it sticker - could care less - would not waste my money or risk it in mail just for that. Appears to be a very nice AU58.
Wrong.
Should OP decide to sell the coin he will get more money for it with the CAC sticker so the value of the coin has increased.
Wrong. The value of the plastic has increased. The coin is still the coin and remains unchanged.
Wrong Again. Look at auction results. I’m Just simply asking how much it increased in value with the CAC sticker. I don’t understand why you have to teach us all a lesson on the obvious. Of course the coin remains unchanged but with a CAC sticker it’s worth more. How much? That’s the question I’m asking
A premium coin will fetch a premium in the absence of a sticker. Imputing all of the value to the sticker is misleading.
No one is saying all the value is in the sticker. What I’m saying is that 1866 Double Eagles that are graded by NGC or PCGS and have a CAC sticker bring more money then one that does not have a CAC sticker period.
@Cougar1978 said:
Increase in value -no. Will it sticker - could care less - would not waste my money or risk it in mail just for that. Appears to be a very nice AU58.
Wrong.
Should OP decide to sell the coin he will get more money for it with the CAC sticker so the value of the coin has increased.
Wrong. The value of the plastic has increased. The coin is still the coin and remains unchanged.
Wrong Again. Look at auction results. I’m Just simply asking how much it increased in value with the CAC sticker. I don’t understand why you have to teach us all a lesson on the obvious. Of course the coin remains unchanged but with a CAC sticker it’s worth more. How much? That’s the question I’m asking
A premium coin will fetch a premium in the absence of a sticker. Imputing all of the value to the sticker is misleading.
No one is saying all the value is in the sticker. What I’m saying is that 1866 Double Eagles that are graded by NGC or PCGS and have a CAC sticker bring more money then one that does not have a CAC sticker period.
The last piece that shows as NGC-CAC in Coin Facts is $7600. If you are selling, you might want to give John a call or email. His offers are usually very fair.
From what I see online and from my table on the bourse if they don’t like the coin or it’s considerably more expensive than say CW Trends or TPG price guide sticker will not sell the coin period. Now I can’t attest to ultra expensive coins for billionaires lol. The rich guy paying 10,000 for a stickered coin where pg price 6000 that’s like the average person buying a burger and beer at a gourmet restaurant vs drive thru lol.
Sure send it to some guy that will pay a lot more but pray they will not go bankrupt (leaving your material in limbo) and when u get the money take it and run.
Analyze (1) what is CDN bid on coin in question - what is the CAC bid in the sheet if any (2) what is his offer. Remember auction prices can be the whale high buyer or end user. The
I have no problem buying slabbed DE I find attractive but I am primarily chasing nice slabbed material (no hazy dull losers or thumbed / spotted coins) I buy sight seen close to melt and occasionally I might pay $25 or $50 more for stickered coin but that’s it. Over that simply not a deal for me.
One 1866 $20 AU58 CAC (ref in CF) - nice Pcgs one which went for $5520 at Heritage in Nov 2018. PCGS PG is $7500. A lot of bargaining room for dealer assuming one picked it up, not a bad deal.
Comments
Here are some key points (IMO):
1. It's not if CAC agrees the grade is accurate, but does CAC feel it is SOLID for the grade (A or B, not C)?
2. There are 253 in that AU58 grade (74 by PCGS, 179 by NGC). Only 24 have a CAC (less than 10%). As we know from your case though, there are some of the 253 that have not been submitted to CAC.
3. Without a CAC, they seem to sell for $4,500 - $6,500, depending on eye appeal. According to the research reported in the March 2019 issue of Mark Ferguson's CAC Market Values, with a CAC they sell for $7,000 - $9,000.
4. The most important question is, based on the above, at this price level, why in the world would one not spend $14.50 plus round trip shipping to give it a shot, even though the odds are less than 50/50? @blackhorse360, you absolutely made the right decision to give it a shot. I wish you luck. Regardless of the outcome, you have a very lovely and special coin!
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Thank You my Friend!
It got a CAC sticker! Just wanted to let you guys know.
Congrats!
Congratulations! NGC and cac agree with one another; as usual some of the pundits were not right on this one.
As an aside, I have owned several 1866 $20s and they are important coins, first year type II, nice design, hair on Miss Liberty is more aesthetic. One I bought as an MS60, NGC looked better; another MS60 was Anacs that looked nice, but baggy. I showed it to Salzberg at the Baltimore show as I had tried to cross it at both NGC and PCGS, no luck. I asked Mark why? He said it it not Unc., I should have asked him the basis for their rejection than just taking him at his word. Where is the wear, why did Anacs call it 60 and not the other graders? Then I walked it over to the Anacs table and Randy Campbell and he said he liked it as a 60 or 61. So not only did he see it as good for grade but even better. Later I was unable to sell it at Teletrade with a reserve level and ended up selling it back to the chiropractor in Arkansas, "Oxford Co." taking a $1000 loss. Maybe I should have tried ebay.
What do you think it’s worth with the CAC sticker
It's gotta be worth more with a sticker. What's it worth cracked out ?
Congrats! I’m very happy to have been wrong.
Congratulations. The only person who knows if a coin will CAC is JA. Otherwise we’re all guessing.
Congratulations!
Congrats! Gotta say I am pretty surprised but good for you!
Latin American Collection
Likewise.. my excuses are your photography and my age
Congrats on getting the CAC sticker on your gold.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
Congratulations! I read the entire thread for the first time today, and was pleasantly surprised (especially after all of the definitive posts telling you the coin would not pass muster) when I got to your recent post saying your coin got the sticker.
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
It doesn't need to be exceptional. It needs to be solid.
You could ask cac what they would pay and then extrapolate from that. Greysheet is a good indicator of cac bid sometimes.
Here is another 1866 $20 story. I had one I sent along to "Coin Restoration Service" with two other coins around 20 years ago, I don't remember why. Mr. Stockton obviously did something, I was upset when it came back. I then sent it to Anacs where it graded AU58 and I got good money for it from a major buyer.
Congrats on the sticker. Static photos can only show so much detail and really say very little about luster, subtle manipulation, etc.
Thanks Everyone!
Increase in value -no. Will it sticker - could care less - would not waste my money or risk it in mail just for that. Appears to be a very nice AU58.
Wrong.
Should OP decide to sell the coin he will get more money for it with the CAC sticker so the value of the coin has increased.
congrats! i like it. you should get todd at blucc ( @blu62vette ) to photo it, or some other professional photographs. i don't think the photos you have are doing it justice.
Congrats!
My YouTube Channel
Wrong. The value of the plastic has increased. The coin is still the coin and remains unchanged.
Congratulations !!!
Wrong Again. Look at auction results. I’m Just simply asking how much it increased in value with the CAC sticker. I don’t understand why you have to teach us all a lesson on the obvious. Of course the coin remains unchanged but with a CAC sticker it’s worth more. How much? That’s the question I’m asking
About 1/7 NGC coins in this grade passed muster with cac.
Here is one that sold not long ago: https://coins.ha.com/itm/a/1251-7089.s $7637 with the juice.
The value of a coin with the sticker rests with the end user - the person who will bid the highest in the country. The end user has always existed even before CAC. I do have CAC coins I regard as exceptionally PQ.
For me the sticker means one guy thinks it’s a nice coin an opinion I may or not agree with. Now I do see him as being a top grader. I may pay around a few bucks extra for a CAC coin buying it below the CAC bid in the sheet but never some 50- 100 pct premium - that’s for me at this time. The few I have their bid in the sheet is about 10-20 pct over non CAC and even at that I have buyer resistance on the bourse and these not priced over CPG. The online store has done better with CAC sales.
Everybody knows we are in a down, slightly south of steady market. Good luck in getting that huge CAC premium. Take the money and run.
Certainly the sticker may increase the marketability of the plastic but the real value of the coin is unchanged - CW Trends, TPG MV. In a down market like a planetary atmosphere being blown away by the solar wind that extra marketability diluted. I wish they (CAC) would do sticker svc at shows / buy stickered coins at their bid (sheet).
Let’s say somebody published a book - Investing in CAC Classic Commems complete with price guide both CAC and non CAC, pop rarity analysis, some commentary about the issue, CAC pct certified, graphs, etc. A real analytical gem of a work. Would u pay around $35 for it? I would.
A premium coin will fetch a premium in the absence of a sticker. Imputing all of the value to the sticker is misleading.
No one is saying all the value is in the sticker. What I’m saying is that 1866 Double Eagles that are graded by NGC or PCGS and have a CAC sticker bring more money then one that does not have a CAC sticker period.
The last piece that shows as NGC-CAC in Coin Facts is $7600. If you are selling, you might want to give John a call or email. His offers are usually very fair.
From what I see online and from my table on the bourse if they don’t like the coin or it’s considerably more expensive than say CW Trends or TPG price guide sticker will not sell the coin period. Now I can’t attest to ultra expensive coins for billionaires lol. The rich guy paying 10,000 for a stickered coin where pg price 6000 that’s like the average person buying a burger and beer at a gourmet restaurant vs drive thru lol.
Sure send it to some guy that will pay a lot more but pray they will not go bankrupt (leaving your material in limbo) and when u get the money take it and run.
Analyze (1) what is CDN bid on coin in question - what is the CAC bid in the sheet if any (2) what is his offer. Remember auction prices can be the whale high buyer or end user. The
I have no problem buying slabbed DE I find attractive but I am primarily chasing nice slabbed material (no hazy dull losers or thumbed / spotted coins) I buy sight seen close to melt and occasionally I might pay $25 or $50 more for stickered coin but that’s it. Over that simply not a deal for me.
One 1866 $20 AU58 CAC (ref in CF) - nice Pcgs one which went for $5520 at Heritage in Nov 2018. PCGS PG is $7500. A lot of bargaining room for dealer assuming one picked it up, not a bad deal.