Two words that describe for me what's wrong with our coinage designs.
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
1). Politics.
2). Americans.
Why do Politicians even need to be involved in the designs and why does it seem like American artists are devoid of talent when it comes to inspiring, interesting designs?? There are only two current issue coins that "speak" to me with their design --- the Proof Sac Dollars that have changed the reverse every year, the Platinum issues that have lovely, changing designs every year. past that I couldn't care less, i should probably just have different size metal blanks with a number stamped on them.
I wonder when artistic talent, people who have imagination and solid artistic skill, left us?? Most everything designed nowadays looks like clip art. I think any bright, adept, computer skilled ninth grade graphic arts student could design our coins. Who would know, right?? Just search the internet for something that looks nice, cut/paste/size with a photoshop program and !!!SHAZZAM!!! look at my coin design. The SHQ program is probably the best example of this, I mean noone actually drew anything there, did they?? It's all clip-art.
Someone name me a classically trained designer who works in the US Mint, someone who is familiar with Greek, Roman, French, British and Italian art, someone who actually has skill. All hope has left, we are doomed with silly, pathetic representations until coins are no longer used. Make haste, please.
Al H.
--- while I'm at it, our Currency is no better. Since around 1915-1920 we have stupid, staid designs that are nothing but expensive paper. You know what it took to bring out the artists for Currency?? The VietNam War!!! A War is what it took for our silly Uncle to use color and lovely designs on paper money in the form of Military Payment Certificates, MPC's. Lunacy.........................
Comments
Too redundant
did I mention clip-art?? talk about redundant, check out Quarters from 1999-date, that's redundant. it's also clip-art, but I don't want to repeat myself.
For better or worse, politics and coins have been joined together for a long time.
https://www.trustedancientcoins.com/julius-caesar-roman-coins/
How about Joseph Menna, Chief Engraver at the US Mint?
https://www.usmint.gov/learn/artists/sculptors-joseph-menna
It’s cheaper and easier for a CNC machine to cut master dies than to make mechanical reductions from artistic works or to do hand engraving. The sheer volume of coinage today and human labor costs financially preclude any hand-work.
Still, I wholeheartedly agree that the plague of “atrocious hideousness” is again with us. If we scrapped the cent and nickel and produced coin denominations up to $10 and $20 it would make coins relevant again. Improved designs would perhaps follow.....
Not without being BAMMED! The largest and richest nation that
history has seen and we have that coinage the resides in our pockets,
except for the "cashless" crew. Embarrassing and shameful.
US Mint design commissions are less than 7% of what a top professional sculptor would accept - an insulting amount of money. Saint-Gaudens' commission was $5,000 for two coin designs in 1905. This sum would be roughly equivalent to $140,000 today, or $70,000 for both sides of one coin. "You get what you pay for."
The primary intrusion of politics into US coinage came from President Roosevelt. Although results were creative, interesting and often inspiring, they were also the opening to Congress and the Executive for meddling in details of coinage. Use of past presidential portraits as "a figure representative of Liberty" was innovative in 1909, 1932 and 1938. But politicians found it too easy to stick with these specific historical people, when attempts were made to re-introduce a conceptual Liberty.
Never change
Menomonee Falls Wisconsin USA
The department of redundancy department is very efficient
We've been complaining about the lack of artistic talent and moving away from political figures for years.
Nobody who can do anything about it cares.
I think some of the people who don't care (enough) to do anything may be collectors....
There has been activity by US Congress in the House of Representatives but I haven't heard of anyone writing their Congressmen and Congresswomen. See the following thread for more.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/971838/does-lady-liberty-have-a-better-chance-now#latest
The way Virginia politicians acted over the re-design of the nickel was childish. They think they own it.
Too many of the designs look nice in shaded drawings and 5 oz silver pucks, sometimes proof. But they look pretty poor in uncirculated business strikes.
ANA 50+ year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Author: 3rd Edition of the SampleSlabs book, https://sampleslabs.info/
Unfortunately, I think the Mint is prioritizing longevity over aesthetics for business strikes. I wonder if there's a way to do both.
One word: Relief.
Even good ideas, (and I think there have been some in the States/Parks coins), can't be made to look good using the flat relief being used today for circulated coinage.
Suppose the comeback is, "they have to be low relief due to the mintages, and modern mass production methods". Probably true...but that just means we've essentially given up on having high quality, artistic designs....which is sad.
Here's an example of the MPC that Al mentions. I have one of these.
That's pretty awesome. Do we know who did the engraving on these?
It would be nice to have a return to the pre dead president coinage
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923
To me, the question is whether it nice enough to write or call your Congressmen or Congresswomen. When Congress was talking about this 2013 I didn't see any collectors actually supporting the bill. I'm guessing as much as people say they want change, there may be too much inertia for most to even support efforts after they are started.
Here's an example of the $20 from the same series. All the notes from this series are very attractive.
Utilitarian crap
I agree with @TommyType 's comment about relief. Given the lack of relief there is no way to make even an interesting design look good on a planchet. I personally thought there were a variety of attractive State quarter designs, but the lack of relief made even the nicest designs look mediocre.
U.S. Type Set
We will never have any classic coinage again …….. sad but true.
Correct me if I’m wrong, I though we had Liberty on our coins because we don’t have kings and royalty on America. I love the concept. Then Lincoln was added and that cracked the seal....
I’m afraid most of the artists that can hand hew something without the aid of a computer have left the planet already. Sad, but I’m always hopeful for a revival.
It's a problem.
the generic use of "Politics" can be present without Politicians. it was in effect at the Mint all through the 19th Century and into the 20th Century as the various sides tried to be in control. I think our coinage designs had improved steadily from 1792 but around 1900 had reached a point where something new was needed. enter Teddy Roosevelt and a fresh group of designers. I think the biggest change at that time was the representations of the eagle: they looked stylistically real instead of a bird with a shield emblazoned on it's chest with feet holding arrows and olive branches, symbolic but not realistic. sadly, after only 30+ years it was back to the usual.
as Roger mentioned, Roosevelt influencing coinage was good but ended up setting a bad precedent. Politicians just can't help themselves. two things I don't believe to be true: the new way dies are produced means more attractive designs can't be used --- and --- low relief means attractive designs can't be used. they can on both accounts, but the will to do so isn't present.
I agree you will never get Lincoln, Kennedy, Washington off of coins unless we totally move to digital currency and get rid of cash altogether but i dream of what could have been if we let our coin designers make great work of art.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923
In one word: Bland.
An interesting approach to this issue may be to discuss what countries do have interesting coins today.
One series I can think of is the UK Queen's Beasts series which a lot of people seem to like.
Would the Buff, the Merc, the SLQ and the Walker been better in high relief? I think so. Are they better than what we have now? Again I think so.
POLITICAL CORRECTNESS= BLAND.
The Buffalo nickel, at least, WAS in high relief. Higher relief, IMO, would add greatly to our coin designs, provided, of course that it was a good design to begin with.
a bad design in any relief is still a bad design, a good design in any relief is still a good design. look at the Monroe Doctrine Half-Dollar, very flat, one of the lowest relief coins ever issued by the Mint. in truth, high relief would not have helped make it more appealing and there was no reason for that not to have happened. the issue only had 100K+ struck.
conversely, look at the Stone Mountain Half-Dollar, struck in much higher numbers right around the same time and in much higher relief. had that coin been issued in lower relief like the Monroe it would still be popular with collectors, it's a great design.
it's like a beautiful woman in a gunny sack, you can't cover it up!!
And yet I don’t see all “Classics” as beautiful or artful or inspiring.
Case in point, the Morgan’s.
When you have 'design by committee' and politics in the mixture, there will never be true art on our coins. The cost of minting and artist fees are just diversions... they are nothing compared to financial waste in government. We could have art on coins.... Get rid of committee's and prevent political influence....Yeah, like that will happen....
Cheers, RickO
And yet I don’t see all “Classics” as beautiful or artful or inspiring.
Case in point, the Morgan’s.
I would agree, there are designs I don't fully appreciate. here's the point --- I don't believe our coinage is meant to represent, honor, or celebrate any person. it is meant to represent, honor and celebrate our ideals as a Nation, principally Liberty. I can stand-under any coin that has an allegorical representation of Liberty.