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Buying obviously damaged, but ultra rare varieties...
Hallco
Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭✭✭
You know up front that they won't grade. They have pmd, graffiti or have otherwise been altered in one way, shape or form...but you don't see them offered frequently. Do you have a strategy when it comes to a no reserve auction?
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Without knowing specifically which ones you're talking about,
I'd say that any variety worth $100 or less, or thereabouts,
should be put up for .99 cent opening, with hope that someone
buys a problem coin, at almost any price.
Your normal Variety collector, in most cases, will not want
a problem coin like you described.
Life is short. Buy what you like. I picked this up a couple years ago.
Thank you. I needed to see this!
@Coinstartled That’s cool. Nice and simple deep stamps. What does the reverse look like?
Edit to add:
I see... and it sure was a heavy handed punch. The “puncher” made sure those numbers would stand the test of time.
Ever wonder why someone would punch 0 thru 10, at first I thought 1 thru 12 and maybe a clock face for outside then saw it started at 0.
Interesting
Bob Sr CEO Fieldtechs
Over the years,I have advised anyone who would listen NOT TO BUY DAMAGED COINS!
I have proven to be wrong by several full time and part time dealers who make a great living buying/slabbing (or not)/selling damaged coins!
I feel better already.
You kind of have to assess the "market value" of the coin. If you are pretty sure that you are the ONLY one to want the coin....make sure you pay a trivial amount!
Since that is seldom the case, if we are talking about a truly rare coin or variety, you need to figure out what the market might USUALLY pay for that specific coin. Not an easy assessment to make.
For me, I try to mentally net grade the coin. "To me, that F-12 details coin is better than a G-4 perfect coin."....or some similar "logic". The reason I don't buy many problem coins is that they tend to sell for MORE than my personal assessment. (Which is probably good for me in the long run?)
It was used as a whist counter during the card-game craze of the time.
Pacific Northwest Numismatic Association
As a collector,if it's rare enough,I'll want to buy it even if it's in pieces! The strength of my bid for it in a no reserve auction would correspond directly to it's rarity (as best as I can determine).
I started this one on ebay @ $2499.99. Wanna guess what it sold for?
I initially agreed about buying "problem coins"... don't! But then, this is about the only way I'd ever get into a 1796 Sm Eagle quarter with any remaining detail!
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
I sold a couple marred rare Newcomb varieties for far less than I wanted.
Started both at .99 cents
Even had one guy ask me to stop the auction and sell one to him...
Turned down $70 and it closed at $15... Yee hah!
I hate problem coins, but glad it's going to a good home.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
Between TommyType and BryceM's posting efforts, and a few other very sharp collectors, I often get to use the Agree button instead of thinking and typing something similar in meaning but more poorly worded. Thanks guys!
I don't buy common coins with problems. For very rare coins, such as R5 and R6 early quarters, I want an example that displays the features of interest, and a Fair or AG doesn't have the details i want to see. I cannot afford (well, justify is a better word) a high grade problem-free coin, yet don't want to do without either.
For a similar price as a "nice" Poor or Fair, sometimes I'll bid on and win a Fine details-scratched, or VF details-holed coin, for example.
And be happy about it and enjoy the coin for what it is. Upon resale, I expect the eventual buyer will have to have a similar philosophy, and want a more complete, if imperfect, set.
I once knew a very average dude who would only be willing to date exceptionally Pretty Girls- he rarely went out, and he's probably still a virgin. But one with high standards!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
sold for 4K ???
I added the reverse on my earlier post.
(should have done that originally)
He became president.
Ah! Now the current game is Bid Whist. Thanks for this tidbit of info @carabonnair.
There are some rare varieties where the nicest coin in existence (of the known population) might have "damage" --> 1876-s DDO trade dollar as an example. My coin is graded PCGS au-55, with chop marks. Whereas, the second best is au-50 (without chopmarks).
Easy answer for me though, as I only collect chop marks.
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
I'm on a quest to collect all 187 Draped Bust Large Cent Sheldon varieties. Am I going to get there - on my budget - without slumming it on some of the rarest varieties? Of course not! There is certainly a market out there for banged up 1799s and S-217s.
I'll add that there seems to be greater tolerance for "damage" with early copper than with other coins in general.
Smitten with DBLCs.
This is a rare coin and as all the design elements still there and although it won't straight grade it is a desireable coin.
The Quarter shown by @Coinstartled isn't even a coin anymore to me. most of the design elements are gone including the date plus it is the damaged by punching numbers into it. This would make it worthless to me whereas the 1822 is still a desireable coin. I wouldn't pay over 20 bucks for that 1796 if even that.
Other than being cleaned the 1822 25 doesn't look too shabby.
Just curious, anyone else think this coin should be called "cleaned?"
I would say more ED than cleaned.
Looks like so many chopmarked Trade dollars -- why didn't it get a straight grade?
Actually, it is not even close to a chopmarked coin! Look closer. Somding missing. :'(
It's both. I bought the coin at least 15 years ago in a big deal when a dealer was selling out. The coin looked like it had been soaked in dip for a day. It was a grainy bright white low grade coin. It was in an old kraft envelope and I tossed it back and actually forgot about it! Fast forward over a decade and I started doing house cleaning...moving out stuff that has piled up for years. Would you believe I almost listed it as a Buy it now on ebay for $100! Man that wouldda been hard to stomach. Luckily I took a closer look and realized what it was! It sold for $5132.92 to an ecstatic buyer. It was the last variety he need to finish his Bust Quarter Variety set!
Both are mutilated. That is the first and only consideration. Having one rule for one type of coin and a different rule for another is inconsistent.
I know...I should get it stickered.
LOL, Tell that to the Large cent "net graders."
Furthermore, IMHO when one of this country's premier numismatists starts throwing around (misusing) a word such as "mutilated" to describe market acceptable and universally collected coins with chops, countermarks, and counter stamps, it is not helpful.
>
Almost as bad as throwing around and misusing a word such as "universally", huh?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I have an R.5 bust half that I bought about 10 years ago and paid $1000, net graded to VF from heavy cleaning but retoned. I didn't think I'd ever buy one in that grade for full price. Since then, I've seen damaged/cleaned R-5's sell all over the map from $200 to $1000 or more...I guess I'll find out what's worth if I ever sell it.
I'd probably pay a lot for a damaged 69-S DDO Lincoln, if one's out there.
Collector, occasional seller
Groan...
Smitten with DBLCs.
While not a variety in the true sense, I paid well into 6 figures for this genuine coin. Some would consider it a problem coin, not good enough for them, but I enjoyed owning it.
Well not so fast there. Look at the hair curls. Try finding such beauty in an AG3 example for more money. And the brave sole that "mutilated" in the early 1800's, had no more concern for the coin that would not get a pair of shoes cobbled, that you do for the cull Peace Dollar leveling your washing machine.
LOL, I was eating my lunch. Besides if you had any idea how many (just took the double "n" out of this word) corrections i need to make it would prove (just fixed "oprove") what a bad typist/proofreader I am! My fingers cannot keep up with my thoughts.
That's odd.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
Oh my,I love that quarter.
I would had a hard time not grabbing that !
The 'Ultra Rare' part of the title has me resisting details, as I have never played in that area........
Here are two coins that I bought in details holders as i just couldn’t afford a straight grade example. The 20c piece is one of my absolute favorites in my collection. It just has the right look. I have never regretted either purchase.
I will pay $25 sight unseen for any authentic mutilated 1792 cents or dismes.
Or is that dismesses?
Successful BST deals with mustangt and jesbroken. Now EVERYTHING is for sale.
If I recall correctly, and it's a big if given the length of time since I read the article, Legend had something like this regarding a bent '94(s) dime. The conclusion was that coins THAT rare would always have a market no matter how damaged.
Here is one of my favorite coins,
1797 half dime with 13 stars obv.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
There are buyers, somewhere, at some price, for all coins... Ebay is clear testament to that...
Cheers, RickO
Your not kidding. One that comes to mind I sold on ebay was a VG 1864 dime. It was crudely altered to make it 12 sided! Never the less it sold for almost $500!
No serifs E’s by any chance?
Your repeated attacks against my choice area of collection is both unprofessional and exhausting. Give it a rest man.
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
No one is "attacking" what you collect. Long ago, I, too, enjoyed chop marked Trade and Seated dollars.
I am pointing out one of the notable inconsistencies in ns for authentication and "blessing" them as acceptable. If mutilated Trade dollars are "gradable' then any other coin type with mutilated surfaces should also be "gradable." That is fair to ALL collectors regardless of what they like to collect.
I disagree with your choice word of 'mutilated'.. but okay. I see where you're coming from. It IS different, though, in many respects.
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
I understand your umbrage at "mutilated." Maybe if we could routinely read and understand Cantonese they would become more like merchant counterstamps on other coins. However, to treat analogous 3-rd party punches differently is inconsistent and unfair to other collectors who have equally valid interests.
It's late and truthfully, not making fun but I'm going to need to read this post a few times in the morning to understand what you wrote.