Here is a toughie. Is this nickel an error or a variety ? Update from James Wiles in 1st post

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JRocco
JRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited March 6, 2019 9:35AM in U.S. Coin Forum

You guys were really helpful with the 84S Lincoln, well how about
this 83 D Jeff? I am asking because I know Jeff nickels can have some pretty
funky issues due to the metal involved. Some peripheral distortions, some almost
Longacre effects etc. But this nickel just screams something. I don't know what it's
screaming.....but it's screaming. I am going to get that Lincoln out to JW but should I
test him with this one too or is this just a weird form of die fatigue or something other than
a true DDR ? I have the coin in hand but only have old close-up pics of the area in question.
There are no listed DDR's for an 83D Jeff that I am aware of at this time.




Update from James Wiles...

"Not a DDR. Die Deterioration Doubling."

This surprised me a little but good to know die deterioration doubling can produce such strong split serifs.

Some coins are just plain "Interesting"

Comments

  • Aspie_Rocco
    Aspie_Rocco Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Wow! I have not seen one like that before. Very interesting!
    How does the rim look? Could it be a double struck coin? That is quite a spread.

    https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/

  • ifthevamzarockin
    ifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,915 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    From the photos it looks like a DDR.

  • JRocco
    JRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Best I can do at the moment. White balance is not set. This pic can be enlarged.

    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • davewesen
    davewesen Posts: 6,981 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    ST of STates sure looks double serif

  • OnWithTheHunt
    OnWithTheHunt Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Not my series but sure looks like a doubled die to me.

    Proud recipient of the coveted "You Suck Award" (9/3/10).
  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I must say, that certainly looks like a DDR... Look forward to some expert inputs here...Cheers, RickO

  • JRocco
    JRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thanks guys.
    I was really on the fence with this one.
    Anyone know if James Wiles will look at a pic attached to an email
    for a first thought ?

    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • mannie gray
    mannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Looks like a DDR to me.
    You are in a roll, @JRocco !

  • JRocco
    JRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Email sent to JW. I will update when I have more info.
    Thanks again. :)

    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • Browe
    Browe Posts: 236 ✭✭✭
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    I'll be more surprised if this isn't a doubled die reverse. I see clear separation, the areas are raised and not shelf like. What a terrific find.

    The Burbank Collection
  • Josh32
    Josh32 Posts: 138 ✭✭✭
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    Appears to be so, great find!

  • ChrisH821
    ChrisH821 Posts: 7,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Very interesting piece

    Collector, occasional seller

  • asheland
    asheland Posts: 24,545 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    It looks like a variety to me.

    My YouTube Channel

  • seanq
    seanq Posts: 8,834 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Looks like a doubled die to me, there is a similar one listed for 1981-D nickels.

    Sean Reynolds

    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • georgiacop50
    georgiacop50 Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭✭
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    DDR and a nice one!

  • JRocco
    JRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Update in first post.

    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • georgiacop50
    georgiacop50 Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭✭
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    "Not a DDR. Die Deterioration Doubling."

    This surprised me a little but good to know die deterioration doubling can produce such strong split serifs.

    Wow how about that! We have all been thinking such pronounced split serifs like that were an practically irrefutable hallmark of a true doubled die...

  • davewesen
    davewesen Posts: 6,981 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Did James Wiles see the coin? or just pictures?

  • JRocco
    JRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    He has the coin in hand now

    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • Insider2
    Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @JRocco said: "Update from James Wiles..."Not a DDR. Die Deterioration Doubling." This surprised me a little but good to know die deterioration doubling can produce such strong split serifs."

    I agree with the OP's comments and I disagree with the error specialist. Someone is going to need to post an example this extreme and sharp of worn die doubling that I have not seen before and I've seen plenty of it that resembles a doubled die under high magnification. Until then, Dr. Wiles has the "street cred." Believe him if you wish.

  • JRocco
    JRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thanks for your comments Insider2.
    I am just a coin geek and a variety hunter who can only rely on an "attributor" to attribute the coin and assign the variety before it would be recognized by a third party service. If I sent this coin in to a third party for the variety recognition they would ask me for the attribution number.
    A conundrum.

    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • Hemispherical
    Hemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @JRocco Thanks for posting the follow up. This thread has positive value for error/variety hunters.

  • davewesen
    davewesen Posts: 6,981 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    this pic does not really look like die erosion to me

  • JRocco
    JRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I agree and can't really apply my understanding of die erosion to this either.
    The separation is along the entire horizontal of the letter ??? But what can I say.

    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • Aspie_Rocco
    Aspie_Rocco Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Could the coin have been struck twice? I do not comprehend how Die erosion or a Longacre effect would cause distinct split serifs like that.
    Where are all the other eroded coins from this die?
    I am not challenging JW, I just want to know a LOT more about this phenomenon.

    https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/

  • cmerlo1
    cmerlo1 Posts: 8,075 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @JRocco said:
    Best I can do at the moment. White balance is not set. This pic can be enlarged.

    JW is definitely the expert here, but I will say this doesn't look like much of an eroded die to me.

    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
  • Insider2
    Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @JRocco said:
    Thanks for your comments Insider2.
    I am just a coin geek and a variety hunter who can only rely on an "attributor" to attribute the coin and assign the variety before it would be recognized by a third party service. If I sent this coin in to a third party for the variety recognition they would ask me for the attribution number.
    A conundrum.

    AFAIK, There are at least two third party authentication services that regularly holder "Discovery coins" w/o the excuse of needing another example. What the heck is a "discovery coin" anyway?

    PS I agree with several comments above but the "software" will not let me record them. Something about a JAVASCRIPT PROBLEM on this site only. Thought I was finally banned at first. :(

  • JRocco
    JRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Insider2 said:

    @JRocco said:
    Thanks for your comments Insider2.
    I am just a coin geek and a variety hunter who can only rely on an "attributor" to attribute the coin and assign the variety before it would be recognized by a third party service. If I sent this coin in to a third party for the variety recognition they would ask me for the attribution number.
    A conundrum.

    AFAIK, There are at least two third party authentication services that regularly holder "Discovery coins" w/o the excuse of needing another example. What the heck is a "discovery coin" anyway?

    PS I agree with several comments above but the "software" will not let me record them. Something about a JAVASCRIPT PROBLEM on this site only. Thought I was finally banned at first. :(

    PM sent :)

    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • davewesen
    davewesen Posts: 6,981 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Aspie_Rocco said:
    Wow! I have not seen one like that before. Very interesting!
    How does the rim look? Could it be a double struck coin? That is quite a spread.

    Many letters are 'funky'. Possibly double struck or counterfeit. Now am curious what other side looks like.

  • Lyndag
    Lyndag Posts: 99 ✭✭
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    I’m curios if this buffalo nickel is even worth sending in. I promised my son I wold ask. And yes I’m recently drafted and waiting for my Redbook to arrive.

  • Hemispherical
    Hemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Lyndag said:


    I’m curios if this buffalo nickel is even worth sending in. I promised my son I wold ask. And yes I’m recently drafted and waiting for my Redbook to arrive.

    @Lyndag

    Please start your own thread. You have hijacked threads before.... :/

    Smash the staples.

    Would need to grade 66+ to be worth the cost.

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