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It's not what a CAC sticker will add to the value of a coin
topstuf
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It's what the lack of one will subtract from the value.
At least that's my opinion and I'm seemingly seeing validation of that more and more.
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Yep. You see a nice coin now and wonder why it didn’t CAC. Reality is of course many have never been to CAC. But I agree 100%
Not one of my coins has a CAC sticker.
All of my coins are top shelf on their own.
I used to do that, too.
Not any longer. Questions on stuff I've sold support my opinion to a VERY large degree.
(However, if it's errors you're talking about I don't think it matters.)
Too many collectors are concerned with whether or not a coin has this sticker. Some will not purchase a coin for their collection if it doesn't have one. I have yet to understand why the opinion of one man is so important to so many people,
Well, yours are errors and not as fungible as non-error coins. Does CAC certify errors?
My top shelf exonumia don’t have stickers either but they also aren’t qualified for them.
BOY DO I AGREE WITH THAT !!
However...... as much as I wish they had never begun, I am simply seeing too much evidence that it is overtaking the hobby and being a huge factor.
Just like slabs were initially controversial and declared unnecessary, I see the same parallel in the stickers.
There's too much "assumption of failure to pass" to overlook.
CAC does not do errors, Thank God.
I believe I could pull off a sticker of my own but not sure if I want to go down that road.
The good thing about errors and exonumia is that they may be doctored a lot less and also cracked/upgraded a lot less.
I agree with this argument completely. The issue is the market value is higher with the sticker than not so that’s why I personally prefer my newps to have a sticker.
I can give you my answer why it is important:
1) his opinion (and the sticker) represents the opinon of one of the best graders in the world that the coin is solid or strong for the grade (and therefore you are not buying a coin at the bottom of the grade)--that counts for something
2) his opinion represents that the coins has not been doctored--a huge factor
3) it is now a fact that in the large majority of cases a CAC coin (and his opinion) increases the value of the coin
4) his opinion makes the coin more liquid in that there are more buyers and also he makes a market in coins with the CAC sticker
5) his opinion is a ratification of the TPG's opinion---in other words, more reassurance especially on a big investment.
Does this mean a CAC coin will match the price guide and a non-CAC is below price guide?
I have no idea. I do know that there's a coin I've been looking at at a dealer who sells top tier stuff and it remains available far longer than normal for his inventory. It has no sticker. It's 10 grand.
Which would you buy for 10k? A pretty coin with no sticker or a pretty coin WITH one?
I'd need to see the coins and how pretty they are. Many pretty coins don't look the same.
A green sticker just tells me that PCGS or NGC got it right? I don't think that helps me personally. A gold sticker would have me think about resubmitting however.
I saw some un-stickered stuff go for high money in the recent Heritage Long Beach auction.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
I like coins that are stickered obviously, but I certainly don't look down on a coin because it doesn't have a sticker.
A lot of my coins are in old holders from old collections that I'm relatively certain have never been sent and I am fine with that. Not to say that I won't possibly send them in myself at some point, but the lack of a sticker doesn't deter me one bit in my decision to buy a coin.
This one doesn't have a sticker, does anyone think that wouldn't pass if sent?
MS64
My YouTube Channel
Kind of. A green sticker means that PCGS and NGC got it right AND it meets CAC criteria AND it’s high end for the grade. An A or B coin for the grade.
I must say CAC has helped me as a collector. My first submission I went 4/20 on achieving stickers. I was really discouraged. I started to study more about coins and coin grading. I have continually received better results in my submissions. My last submission I went 5/5 and the sub before that I went 7/8. People can hate all they want. If they are not on board as seller. they may be leaving money on the table.
The CAC business seems short-sighted to me. While the man behind the business seemingly has few critics, he’s not going to live forever, so then what?
No chance, may as well sell it to me at a steep discount
Collector, occasional seller
I buy the coin and NOT the slab or the sticker on it. Mostly 65, 66, 67 and to me I like their eye appeal. I do not own a coin that has a CAC sticker. This is just my opinion on the matter and I like what Zoins said: "I'd need to see the coins and how pretty they are. Many pretty coins don't look the same."
PS: I pay PCGS to grade and evaluate the coin I send in. The day I start needing some other outfit to tell me PCGS got it right or wrong is the day I will stop submitting. I trust PCGS and NGC to get it as close to 'humanly' possible right and I have found no reason to doubt them yet. IMHO.
For the very same reason that one flavor of plastic is so very important to so many people here, hype and market perception. To listen to some posters here you would think the two top tpgs are as different as Bentley vs Yugo, when in reality the two companies are much more alike than different. So if you can understand the bias toward one brand of plastic (especially on this forum) then you can understand the CAC thing. And I have to agree with the op, any coin that looks high end without a sticker (in a dealer inventory) is suspect.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I like honey mustard
Your points about the higher prices and liquidity are valid because that is a reflection of the market.
I have not found your points numbers one and two to be true in all cases. I have been disappointed by CAC approved coins on more than a few occasions. I can go no further with this discussion because I would be banned for doing so.
I could show you a gold CAC approved coin that might get a "details" grade if I were to re-submit it. It was one of my big mistakes when CAC first came on the scene.
I think it has really made a change in the industry for the worst, I think to many people make a decision on the Sticker. on gold especially the inconstancy of what gets sticker has made it hard in gold. I had saved three coins all gold $2.5 Indians one had a CAC sticker The two the did not pass but where just incredible coins so I covered up all the grades only one person got it right out of about 30 people. The gentlemen said I picked the one thinking it would be the coin he thought would have not received a sticker since I said he would be surprised I did not say that to the others just told them to pick the coin. My second incident I had a beautiful toned Morgan in 66 a gentlemen said he love the coin and asked if it had been to CAC I said no which it had not been to CAC but I told him it would sticker. On the Morgans they sticker about anything that's is correct for the grade not like the game in the gold. He could not put the coin down trip after trip after trip to the table the last trip he made the coin had sold it then went to CAC and it did sticker now the guy that had original wanted the coin had us make an offer to the purchaser for $350 more then I was offering it to him it just seem silly.
No one is right in "all" cases. i do think CAC gets it right a large majority of times (just take a look at 20 st gaudens with half CAC and half not at the same grade). Your final line of defense when buying a coin that is PCGS and CAC is to confirm with your own eyes.
Well, here we go again. My 2 cents:
Because when you go to sell the coin that one mans opinion is very important.
Common sense to me is ...... CAC has to stick with their high standard qualifying for stickers otherwise too many CACs would make them more common and then what? CAC over CAC?
I am waiting for the cream to come up but my pocket may not be deep enough
Nothing really has changed. Before CAC, many had the same thoughts about slabbed coins. It used to be collectors and dealers wondered why a 'nice' raw coin was not in a slab. Now, to some, a 'nice' slabbed coin without a CAC sticker is suspect. Heaven help the lowly 'nice' coin without plastic or a sticker ... might as well spend it.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Funny, isn't all this why third party grading started in the first place?
Collector, occasional seller
If you haven't looked at a coin WITH a CAC and thought to yourself "how in the world did that thing get a sticker", then you are NOT looking at enough coins.
Thank goodness we have another CAC thread going! I can't wait to read all of the new, original comments!
Smitten with DBLCs.
Prices go up even more as they are now history?
Do you believe the same thing about what the lack of a PCGS grade/holder subtracts from the value of an NGC (or other grading company's) coin?
If not, why not?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Value is perceived, as always. Tweet that.
Buy the coin, not the holder or sticker.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
So, it's about the sell ! I got it, now.
Rightly or wrongly, yes I do.
It's again just market reality. "Buy the coin--not the slab/sticker/dealer" is still valid and a good policy.
I am NOT a fan of CAC.
I believe that they are harming the hobby but that's not the issue here.
All things equal, PCGS will BRING (if not warrant) a more consistent market share than will any other TPG.
Again.... market reality.
The point of this thread is to state MY opinion that if ANY coin comes up for sale, the sticker will either add or increase the market price and the lack of one will lead to uncertainty IN SOME CASES and even to discounting because of the uncertainty and ...growing... perception that the bean is the better coin.
All other factors equal. I could just as easily go the "it doesn't matter" route, but it wouldn't be what's happening.
Gotta slab it then CAC it then if its gold reslab hopefully at a higher grade then what ? Re CAC obviously
Sounds like a lot of work for some dealer to buy it after I drop dead for 20% of grey sheet. Oh that gold sticker doesn't mean anything kid
I'll just take more coins instead .
To simplify the concept, let's just ask whether on any given coin you have, IF you want to sell that coin you would rather have a bean on it or not.
Fair?
I will add one more reason why CAC's opinion is important to me. Consistency. I see so many threads discuss the lack of consistency in numismatics over the years (i.e gradeflation, changing grading standards, etc.). If you follow the CAC census, there is a remarkable amount of consistency. Take for example a 1912-S nickel. The TPG pop for this coin in MS-66 has exploded (and the prices have decreased). However, the CAC stickered pop for this coin is only 3. It was 2 for quite a while and third was recently stickered. Regardless CAC's standards seem consistent and in this case while overall population exploded, CAC stuck to its standards. Many other dates are very similar. WIth all the talk of gradeflation as an issue, I have not seen CAC change its standards over the years.
Thank you and I appreciate your consistency.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
At some point, "original" CAC-stickered coins will be collected just for the sticker
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Well, whether we agree or not, the market place has placed a higher premium on CAC stickered coins. We are all buying beans and plastic and hoping that the coin inside is enjoyable to look at.
I've done better walking into shows and out with a far larger checks on older holder graded material that wasn't stickered.
A sticker instantly psychologically hinders the thought of any possible upgrade potential.
Kinda like a + on a slab label will have a buyer spending more time wonder why it didn't make the next higher grade than why it got the plus.
No all of us. I love the coins I have, but I am virtually done with buying U.S. coins. The last piece I bought was a Columbian half dollar because it was in a leather pouch in which it was sold in 1893.
I will keep my Proof set string going and perhaps buy some modern commemoratives, but that will be it.
Wait -- wasn't the 1912-S 5c the coin at the center of that flap between some guys and PCGS a few years ago? There was this one grading company -- I want to forget which -- that attacked PCGS for supposed gradeflation, and brought up the census on that very coin as evidence. PCGS' response included the claim that, in fact, they recently received two rolls of these nickels, and that's why the population soared. So: isn't it likely that this cache of newly graded coins could have quickly found new homes without stopping at CAC?
My obligatory two zincolns: when I shop online and look at images of coins worth more than say $300-500, I usually note whether the sticker is there or not. If it isn't, no biggie, it just suggests that the imaged coin may be low-end for the grade. For the series I like and have spent time studying, I don't necessarily need the sticker; I've submitted some coins to CAC, and was rarely surprised by those that weren't approved (less than 10%, on about 50 coins). I also appreciated those learning experiences.
But when it comes to gold, where I'm just lucky to pick up an occasional type piece, I wouldn't buy an Unc coin if it doesn't have a sticker. I don't know much about gold-coin grading and alterations, and I don't think I should have to embark on a years-long learning curve -- with lots of coins bought and sold -- just to pick up a satisfactory type piece.