Brady is a Convicted cheater, served time. There's your proof. If he was innocent there would be no suspension, nor loss of draft pick.
Quit your whining. Children can never admit they are wrong, and live in denial, just like you.
MCMLVTopps you are nothing more than a childish, unknowledgeable bandwagon fan.
I couldn't let this go......"convicted cheater"! LMAO. He was not convicted by any court of law.....only by the IDIOT Commish.
The same IDIOT Commish that decided Elliot was guilty with no trail.......because the woman made the whole thing up and wouldn't even go to trial because she knew the truth would come out. And why should she when the IDIOT Commish will play GOD for her!!!
Brady is a Convicted cheater, served time. There's your proof. If he was innocent there would be no suspension, nor loss of draft pick.
Quit your whining. Children can never admit they are wrong, and live in denial, just like you.
MCMLVTopps you are nothing more than a childish, unknowledgeable bandwagon fan.
I couldn't let this go......"convicted cheater"! LMAO. He was not convicted by any court of law.....only by the IDIOT Commish.
The same IDIOT Commish that decided Elliot was guilty with no trail.......because the woman made the whole thing up and wouldn't even go to trial because she knew the truth would come out. And why should she when the IDIOT Commish will play GOD for her!!!
the same commish that swept the ray rice thing under the rug when he thought no one was paying attention then over reacted in the other direction.
My post was directed at hammer1, not intended to generate more discussion on deflatgate, nor do I care to discuss it further. hammer1 was way out of line (IMO) in his post to DIMEMAN, and I spoke up. We should all be here to share comments and disagreements in a mature and gentlemanly manner...we all are entitled to our opinions, but not to slam another poster with some childish BS. Hopefully he got the message and will fade away, as he should, he contributes nothing to this thread.
Truth hurts huh? lol
Brady is a Convicted cheater, served time. There's your proof. If he was innocent there would be no suspension, nor loss of draft pick.
Quit your whining. Children can never admit they are wrong, and live in denial, just like you.
MCMLVTopps you are nothing more than a childish, unknowledgeable bandwagon fan.
The suspension was for not turning over his phone not "cheating".
Might as well face it Patriots fans...Patriots haters are now in a similar mode with Yankees haters of the past. Remember that a very popular Hollywood movie and Broadway play was called "Damn Yankees" in which the basic premise of the story was about hating the New York Yankees.
Let's call out some of those Yankees players who instilled that hate, shall we? Names such as Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, Maris, Berra, Ford, etc, etc, etc. Individually thought of by most people as class acts. However collectively over the years as a team, because of taking championships away from other cities, they were hated for that.
The Patriots are receiving this same sort of hate now. Despite the fact that Robert Kraft, Bill Belichick, Tom Brady, etc. etc, etc, are class acts by any reasonable definition, they are scorned and ridiculed by many who are jealous because of their winning.
With some haters, the hate for the Patriots actually goes much deeper because of underlying personal reasons such as these Patriots being friendly with our current president.
Steve I 100% agree and I faced those facts a very long time ago. You have read me posting “Jealous Pats Haters” a bunch of times over the years and I have always stood by that as facts. Like the saying goes here in NE “They hate us because they ain’t us”
Gosh you guys are such prolific debaters. When faced with an irrefutable fact your response is to gang up and say "he's a Pats hater." What a childish, weak rebuttal. Put on your big boy pants and try to give me an adult response,
he got suspended because the nfl can suspend a player any time it wants. They needed to support the narrative.
We also got a good taste of the fake news thats sweeping the country now. ESPN story full of nonsense which is later proven to be wrong but ESPN never feels the need to retract any of it, they just leave it all lying out there.
If it had happened 2 years later they would be claiming Putin was behind it
Robert Kraft has enough money to debunk that theory, why didn't he do it? Kraft isn't going to throw away draft picks, a million bucks and have his star QB sit 4 games. Right he did try to prove it wasn't true, and it went to court. The judge said evidence of ball tampering was "compelling, if not overwhelming." Maybe he's part of the conspiracy too, right? Another Pats hater. LMAO
Cone on bronco, I asked for a real explanation. That doesn't get it.
Cone on bronco, I asked for a real explanation. That doesn't get it.
He was supposedly suspended for not turning over a phone. So 4 games for that equates not turning a phone in to beating the crap out of a woman. Its literally the same offense.
I always assumed they screwed with the balls , I just feel that every team does it all the time and the league turned a blind eye to it. Every once in a while though they decide to make an example and hilarity ensues.
I think if tom had turned the phone in , the NFL would have covered up for the pats by saying there was nothing on it. But because he dug his heels in they were able to lay the wood on him for non compliance so it looked like they were strong on the subject. After the string of failures they were having it was an attempt to regain control of the narrative that they were tough on things.
Another example of the league corruption is PED's . This year Edeleman got popped for 4 games . Do I think he was innocent? No I think everyone that goes to Brady's guru is on PED's nonstop and either they slipped up with whatever they mask them with and Julian threw a positive or they all did and they had to offer up a scapegoat and he drew the short straw.
I think you guys are all crazy to care one way or another about it. Football is not real life , its entertainment and it doesn't matter what they do as long as I am entertained. I don't think there is anything pure or noble about football , there is nothing inherently moral about how a sport is conducted , sports is not important. Entertain me personally right now or go die in a fire and I'll watch something else.
I see you failed at contributing an adult response. You aren't very entertaining either. Perhaps their is a Pats fan who can debate the facts like an adult.
Let's stick to the facts, are you up for that?
Kraft and Brady spent millions trying to overturn the ruling, but failed.
April 25, 2016: Brady's suspension is reinstated.
May 23, 2016: Brady files an appeal for a second hearing by the Second Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals in regard to his four-game suspension.
July 13, 2016: The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals denies Brady's appeal in regard to his four-game suspension imposed by the NFL.
July 15, 2016: Brady announces he will not appeal his four-game Deflategate suspension to the U.S. Supreme Court.
@hammer1 said:
I see you failed at contributing an adult response. You aren't very entertaining either. With your level of intelligence you should really not be posting, it would truly be better for the world. Perhaps their is a Pats fan who can debate the facts like an adult.
Let's stick to the facts, are you up for that?
Kraft and Brady spent millions trying to overturn the ruling, but failed.
April 25, 2016: Brady's suspension is reinstated.
May 23, 2016: Brady files an appeal for a second hearing by the Second Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals in regard to his four-game suspension.
July 13, 2016: The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals denies Brady's appeal in regard to his four-game suspension imposed by the NFL.
July 15, 2016: Brady announces he will not appeal his four-game Deflategate suspension to the U.S. Supreme Court.
My conclusion is correct , and I won here because I tricked you into googling nonsense in an attempt to refute my gibberish.
You put supreme court and deflategate in the same sentence , so in that sense we all lost as a country.
@hammer1 said:
Gosh you guys are such prolific debaters. When faced with an irrefutable fact your response is to gang up and say "he's a Pats hater." What a childish, weak rebuttal. Put on your big boy pants and try to give me an adult response,
Why did Brady get suspended?
For selling Girl Scout cookies?
Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.
LOL
Your the one who can’t do a simple search here on CU. I already told you that your a dollar short and a day late to that party, it was addressed at length yet you want to drag the topic out again and look for all of us to repeat the same stuff we already typed out. I do understand that you must be extremely upset over whatever crappy team you root for and the tremendous amount of success that Tom Brady and the Pats have had but hey it is what it is, the sooner you accept it the healing for you will begin.
Let's tell it straight. The Yankees hating was at least understandable. For decades they far outspent other teams for players. That is a much more realistic definition of a rigged outcome than some minor deflated footballs.
So that being said, as a football fan, how can anyone other than for the reason previously mentioned relating to our current president, not like the Patriots?
The Patriots do everything the right way...thru intelligence, planning and hard work. Kraft hires Belichick who turns into the GOAT head coach, and Belichick drafts Brady who arguably is the GOAT quarterback. How can you not admire and respect that?
Belichick every off season, cleverly and skillfully seems to weed out the players from his team who he feels got too full of themselves after winning a championship and aren't as motivated, and keeps and finds the right players out there who are hungry to do it again or win it for the first time. That is an art at the highest level, figuring out human behavior in athletes, and then coaching them up and motivating them to win championships.
While other dead head GM's pay the latest free agent players too much money coming off individual record seasons, and then wonder why the player under performs the next season for their team, Bill Belichick consistently finds the right players, pieces together a very complex puzzle, to form teams that win football games.
Nothing was given to the Patriots under Belichick and Brady. They earned those championships, and my hats off to them.
If they win more championships that's fine with me, just as long as it's not against my Eagles.
@stevek said:
Let's tell it straight. The Yankees hating was at least understandable. For decades they far outspent other teams for players. That is a much more realistic definition of a rigged outcome than some minor deflated footballs.
So that being said, as a football fan, how can anyone other than for the reason previously mentioned relating to our current president, not like the Patriots?
The Patriots do everything the right way...thru intelligence, planning and hard work. Kraft hires Belichick who turns into the GOAT head coach, and Belichick drafts Brady who arguably is the GOAT quarterback. How can you not admire and respect that?
Belichick every off season, cleverly and skillfully seems to weed out the players from his team who he feels got too full of themselves after winning a championship and aren't as motivated, and keeps and finds the right players out there who are hungry to do it again or win it for the first time. That is an art at the highest level, figuring out human behavior in athletes, and then coaching them up and motivating them to win championships.
While other dead head GM's pay the latest free agent players too much money coming off individual record seasons, and then wonder why the player under performs the next season for their team, Bill Belichick consistently finds the right players, pieces together a very complex puzzle, to form teams that win football games.
Nothing was given to the Patriots under Belichick and Brady. They earned those championships, and my hats off to them.
If they win more championships that's fine with me, just as long as it's not against my Eagles.
I wasn't going to post in this thread any longer as it had become too childish, but your post is worth replying to.
I certainly agree with most of what you said. However the Patriots have been caught breaking the rules and that is also part of the story. They don't do EVERYTHING right.
I have congratulated them on their victories. Some here seem to think they are flawless and anyone who points out that fact is a "hater". I am absolutely not a "hater", merely pointing out that they are not perfect.
I have never once said they only win because they cheat. Belichick, Brady and now Edelman have all been penalized for breaking the rules. You can make all the excuses you want, but those are facts.
Making childish personal attacks on people who point that out doesn't help your case.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@JoeBanzai, look I am a unbiased fan of the Patriots we all know this and yes I will agree that they have done a ton of shady things over the years but I grow tired of the haters that dismiss their success because of “Cheating” I mean let’s be real here, all professional sports teams do a million things that could be considered “Cheating” and right wrong or indifferent it goes with the territory of magnifying it when it comes to winners, nobody cares if the Buffalo Bills or the Detroit Lions do something scretchy am I right? I certainly think so. The Patriots are not squeaky clean by no means I admit that but again they are not the only team and not every player is a role model for every little thing. They paid their dues two fold and still win. Appreciate their long tradition of success or not it really don’t matter because at the end of the day they are a winning franchise in an ugly dirty business
@perkdog said: @JoeBanzai, look I am a unbiased fan of the Patriots we all know this and yes I will agree that they have done a ton of shady things over the years but I grow tired of the haters that dismiss their success because of “Cheating” I mean let’s be real here, all professional sports teams do a million things that could be considered “Cheating” and right wrong or indifferent it goes with the territory of magnifying it when it comes to winners, nobody cares if the Buffalo Bills or the Detroit Lions do something scretchy am I right? I certainly think so. The Patriots are not squeaky clean by no means I admit that but again they are not the only team and not every player is a role model for every little thing. They paid their dues two fold and still win. Appreciate their long tradition of success or not it really don’t matter because at the end of the day they are a winning franchise in an ugly dirty business
Wow, that was a pretty honest post. Except the part about being unbiased, I think we all have a little/lot of bias when it comes to "our" favorite teams.
The only reason I bring up the cheating is when Patriot fans want to anoint their team as perfection.
I have the same debate with the Packer fans here in Minnesota. If the Vikings beat the Packers or have a better record for the previous season and I dare to mention it, they are completely unable to admit it. They go off on their "How many Super Bowls have the Vikings won?" rant.
I don't dismiss either the Packers or the Patriots successes. When it begins to feel like you're "rubbing it in", you better have a clean record or you are going to hear about it.
Unfortunately, I am again this year forced to say what us Vikings fans always do "Wait 'til next year". ;-)
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
I would agree with the basic premise that most if not all teams cheat in some sort of way. If it's not on the football field, then it's in "bending" the salary cap rules or something else. Technically, it's all cheating.
Perhaps the Patriots accusations could be compared to horse racing. I think in most if not all states that run thoroughbred racing, the winning horse gets tested for drugs. I think in some states it may be the second place finisher as well.
The horse that ran say fifth, that trainer might have also cheated, but he doesn't get investigated for it. IE: Nobody has been investigating the Cleveland Browns for possible cheating, even if possibly they have been, because they've been losers. The Patriots get investigated because they've been winners.
@stevek said:
I would agree with the basic premise that most if not all teams cheat in some sort of way. If it's not on the football field, then it's in "bending" the salary cap rules or something else. Technically, it's all cheating.
Perhaps the Patriots accusations could be compared to horse racing. I think in most if not all states that run thoroughbred racing, the winning horse gets tested for drugs. I think in some states it may be the second place finisher as well.
The horse that ran say fifth, that trainer might have also cheated, but he doesn't get investigated for it. IE: Nobody has been investigating the Cleveland Browns for possible cheating, even if possibly they have been, because they've been losers. The Patriots get investigated because they've been winners.
If your team cheated and went 0-16 then the universe has already had its way with them an investigation at that point would just be mean spirited.
Cheating unsuccessfully is ok as the result is more damaging than any possible penalty . How bad can you hurt an 0-16 team ? they can't go below 0 % win percentage
@stevek said:
I would agree with the basic premise that most if not all teams cheat in some sort of way. If it's not on the football field, then it's in "bending" the salary cap rules or something else. Technically, it's all cheating.
Perhaps the Patriots accusations could be compared to horse racing. I think in most if not all states that run thoroughbred racing, the winning horse gets tested for drugs. I think in some states it may be the second place finisher as well.
The horse that ran say fifth, that trainer might have also cheated, but he doesn't get investigated for it. IE: Nobody has been investigating the Cleveland Browns for possible cheating, even if possibly they have been, because they've been losers. The Patriots get investigated because they've been winners.
If your team cheated and went 0-16 then the universe has already had its way with them an investigation at that point would just be mean spirited.
Cheating unsuccessfully is ok as the result is more damaging than any possible penalty . How bad can you hurt an 0-16 team ? they can't go below 0 % win percentage
There have been test studies done on this...that young children who lie and cheat, actually have higher IQ's than truthful, honest children. That's because it takes more brain power to formulate a lie or a cheat that could work, rather than not think about anything and just tell the truth and be honest.
These folks operating sports teams worth billions of dollars, certainly are in a top tier of intelligence. I doubt if any of them grew-up totally forthright. And certainly they are not going to stop with their behavior when billions of dollars are at stake...they just lie and cheat in a more professional manner.
@stevek said:
I would agree with the basic premise that most if not all teams cheat in some sort of way. If it's not on the football field, then it's in "bending" the salary cap rules or something else. Technically, it's all cheating.
Perhaps the Patriots accusations could be compared to horse racing. I think in most if not all states that run thoroughbred racing, the winning horse gets tested for drugs. I think in some states it may be the second place finisher as well.
The horse that ran say fifth, that trainer might have also cheated, but he doesn't get investigated for it. IE: Nobody has been investigating the Cleveland Browns for possible cheating, even if possibly they have been, because they've been losers. The Patriots get investigated because they've been winners.
If your team cheated and went 0-16 then the universe has already had its way with them an investigation at that point would just be mean spirited.
Cheating unsuccessfully is ok as the result is more damaging than any possible penalty . How bad can you hurt an 0-16 team ? they can't go below 0 % win percentage
There have been test studies done on this...that young children who lie and cheat, actually have higher IQ's than truthful, honest children. That's because it takes more brain power to formulate a lie or a cheat that could work, rather than not think about anything and just tell the truth and be honest.
These folks operating sports teams worth billions of dollars, certainly are in a top tier of intelligence. I doubt if any of them grew-up totally forthright. And certainly they are not going to stop with their behavior when billions of dollars are at stake...they just do it in a more clever manner.
I would say if they built a successful team then they are genius level . If the inherited it from a rich family member then usually they are stupid and the team is doomed. It might take 2 generations to get all the way to stupid but its inevitable
@perkdog said: @JoeBanzai, look I am a unbiased fan of the Patriots we all know this and yes I will agree that they have done a ton of shady things over the years but I grow tired of the haters that dismiss their success because of “Cheating” I mean let’s be real here, all professional sports teams do a million things that could be considered “Cheating” and right wrong or indifferent it goes with the territory of magnifying it when it comes to winners, nobody cares if the Buffalo Bills or the Detroit Lions do something scretchy am I right? I certainly think so. The Patriots are not squeaky clean by no means I admit that but again they are not the only team and not every player is a role model for every little thing. They paid their dues two fold and still win. Appreciate their long tradition of success or not it really don’t matter because at the end of the day they are a winning franchise in an ugly dirty business
Wow, that was a pretty honest post. Except the part about being unbiased, I think we all have a little/lot of bias when it comes to "our" favorite teams.
The only reason I bring up the cheating is when Patriot fans want to anoint their team as perfection.
I have the same debate with the Packer fans here in Minnesota. If the Vikings beat the Packers or have a better record for the previous season and I dare to mention it, they are completely unable to admit it. They go off on their "How many Super Bowls have the Vikings won?" rant.
I don't dismiss either the Packers or the Patriots successes. When it begins to feel like you're "rubbing it in", you better have a clean record or you are going to hear about it.
Unfortunately, I am again this year forced to say what us Vikings fans always do "Wait 'til next year". ;-)
I meant that I’m biased as far as the Pats go, meaning I love them regardless. And as far as Packers fans go they love to think they are a major player in the NFL, truth is they are the most overrated and Aaron Rodgers is a a crybaby. Since the Super Bowl era the Packers are no where near the top as far as the best franchises go regardless of what people in Green Bay think
The only thing I’d like to add as a fact to this discussion is that the Patriots no doubt remarkable success has also been enabled by the incompetence and often directionless approach of the other three teams in their division.
To be clear, the Patriots have had their up and down years; having followed along with good friends of mine who I talk to and the board musings here of Pats fans, part of what made this year extra special is that it was a bit of a surprise (in as much as any Patriot title can really be considered a surprise, they’ve won so dang many) because most felt they were a little undermanned and susceptible this year (insert personal doubt here) and KC being so good, etc. They were 6-4 outside of division and earned a home game after a bye thanks in some part due to a 5-1 record against the Jets, Bills and Dolphins, the last of which earned a win in MIRACLE fashion (otherwise it’s 6-0 and 12-4).
I am not going to go year by year but you see the point and anyone can look it up if you should have doubt.
I don’t mean this as an indictment of the Patriots in any way but rather something else to consider and certainly a contributing factor to their incredible success. An extra week off to heal, plan, prepare and be home can’t be understated for a team entering the playoffs.
I’ll also point out that this is not the only team ever to benefit from it. Look at the other teams with loads of titles and when they won them - think about the Steelers have had so many terrible incarnations of the Bengals and Browns over the last thirty year period...
High level of competence against total incompetence will produce the same desirable outcome for the former 90+ percent of the time...
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
@stevek said:
I would agree with the basic premise that most if not all teams cheat in some sort of way. If it's not on the football field, then it's in "bending" the salary cap rules or something else. Technically, it's all cheating.
Perhaps the Patriots accusations could be compared to horse racing. I think in most if not all states that run thoroughbred racing, the winning horse gets tested for drugs. I think in some states it may be the second place finisher as well.
The horse that ran say fifth, that trainer might have also cheated, but he doesn't get investigated for it. IE: Nobody has been investigating the Cleveland Browns for possible cheating, even if possibly they have been, because they've been losers. The Patriots get investigated because they've been winners.
If your team cheated and went 0-16 then the universe has already had its way with them an investigation at that point would just be mean spirited.
Cheating unsuccessfully is ok as the result is more damaging than any possible penalty . How bad can you hurt an 0-16 team ? they can't go below 0 % win percentage
There have been test studies done on this...that young children who lie and cheat, actually have higher IQ's than truthful, honest children. That's because it takes more brain power to formulate a lie or a cheat that could work, rather than not think about anything and just tell the truth and be honest.
These folks operating sports teams worth billions of dollars, certainly are in a top tier of intelligence. I doubt if any of them grew-up totally forthright. And certainly they are not going to stop with their behavior when billions of dollars are at stake...they just lie and cheat in a more professional manner.
Maybe we need to value character more and IQ less?
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@stevek said:
I would agree with the basic premise that most if not all teams cheat in some sort of way. If it's not on the football field, then it's in "bending" the salary cap rules or something else. Technically, it's all cheating.
Perhaps the Patriots accusations could be compared to horse racing. I think in most if not all states that run thoroughbred racing, the winning horse gets tested for drugs. I think in some states it may be the second place finisher as well.
The horse that ran say fifth, that trainer might have also cheated, but he doesn't get investigated for it. IE: Nobody has been investigating the Cleveland Browns for possible cheating, even if possibly they have been, because they've been losers. The Patriots get investigated because they've been winners.
If your team cheated and went 0-16 then the universe has already had its way with them an investigation at that point would just be mean spirited.
Cheating unsuccessfully is ok as the result is more damaging than any possible penalty . How bad can you hurt an 0-16 team ? they can't go below 0 % win percentage
There have been test studies done on this...that young children who lie and cheat, actually have higher IQ's than truthful, honest children. That's because it takes more brain power to formulate a lie or a cheat that could work, rather than not think about anything and just tell the truth and be honest.
These folks operating sports teams worth billions of dollars, certainly are in a top tier of intelligence. I doubt if any of them grew-up totally forthright. And certainly they are not going to stop with their behavior when billions of dollars are at stake...they just lie and cheat in a more professional manner.
Maybe we need to value character more and IQ less?
Good point.
Some of the most horrific criminals in history were geniuses. It takes a very high IQ to overcome various circumstances and become a malevolent dictator.
@stevek said:
I would agree with the basic premise that most if not all teams cheat in some sort of way. If it's not on the football field, then it's in "bending" the salary cap rules or something else. Technically, it's all cheating.
Perhaps the Patriots accusations could be compared to horse racing. I think in most if not all states that run thoroughbred racing, the winning horse gets tested for drugs. I think in some states it may be the second place finisher as well.
The horse that ran say fifth, that trainer might have also cheated, but he doesn't get investigated for it. IE: Nobody has been investigating the Cleveland Browns for possible cheating, even if possibly they have been, because they've been losers. The Patriots get investigated because they've been winners.
If your team cheated and went 0-16 then the universe has already had its way with them an investigation at that point would just be mean spirited.
Cheating unsuccessfully is ok as the result is more damaging than any possible penalty . How bad can you hurt an 0-16 team ? they can't go below 0 % win percentage
There have been test studies done on this...that young children who lie and cheat, actually have higher IQ's than truthful, honest children. That's because it takes more brain power to formulate a lie or a cheat that could work, rather than not think about anything and just tell the truth and be honest.
These folks operating sports teams worth billions of dollars, certainly are in a top tier of intelligence. I doubt if any of them grew-up totally forthright. And certainly they are not going to stop with their behavior when billions of dollars are at stake...they just do it in a more clever manner.
I would say if they built a successful team then they are genius level . If the inherited it from a rich family member then usually they are stupid and the team is doomed. It might take 2 generations to get all the way to stupid but its inevitable
Good point.
I've worked for three owner's sons who were bosses. All were incompetent. One of whom wound up running a division of the company that i worked for. He got the position for no other reason than the owner was his father. It's the only time I was ever fired, mainly because I kept telling him what he was doing wrong, and he wouldn't listen, and he would usually give me the eye roll or an angry stare.
Getting fired was fine with me. I went on to make more money in another job, and his company went bankrupt about a year later.
The only thing I’d like to add as a fact to this discussion is that the Patriots no doubt remarkable success has also been enabled by the incompetence and often directionless approach of the other three teams in their division.
To be clear, the Patriots have had their up and down years; having followed along with good friends of mine who I talk to and the board musings here of Pats fans, part of what made this year extra special is that it was a bit of a surprise (in as much as any Patriot title can really be considered a surprise, they’ve won so dang many) because most felt they were a little undermanned and susceptible this year (insert personal doubt here) and KC being so good, etc. They were 6-4 outside of division and earned a home game after a bye thanks in some part due to a 5-1 record against the Jets, Bills and Dolphins, the last of which earned a win in MIRACLE fashion (otherwise it’s 6-0 and 12-4).
I am not going to go year by year but you see the point and anyone can look it up if you should have doubt.
I don’t mean this as an indictment of the Patriots in any way but rather something else to consider and certainly a contributing factor to their incredible success. An extra week off to heal, plan, prepare and be home can’t be understated for a team entering the playoffs.
I’ll also point out that this is not the only team ever to benefit from it. Look at the other teams with loads of titles and when they won them - think about the Steelers have had so many terrible incarnations of the Bengals and Browns over the last thirty year period...
High level of competence against total incompetence will produce the same desirable outcome for the former 90+ percent of the time...
Thanks Tim for the kind words. I cannot dispute your points, the AFC East aside from the Patriots is an absolute joke without question but really I can’t say that any other division in the NFL is a bitterly contested battleground between top teams really, most of the time it’s a battle of who is “the best mediocre one and done in the playoffs” team. The bye week absolutely helps but that cannot be or shouldn’t be held against them since they earned it right? It’s the system and set of rules they play by. But hey at the end of the day there are variables to most everything, one thing I will say is there isn’t much variables to consistency and you will not find another team as consistent as the Patriots
I don't take anything away from them because they are in a "weak" division. They still get to the SB almost every year and win it more often than not playing against the best teams.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
Comments
I couldn't let this go......"convicted cheater"! LMAO. He was not convicted by any court of law.....only by the IDIOT Commish.
The same IDIOT Commish that decided Elliot was guilty with no trail.......because the woman made the whole thing up and wouldn't even go to trial because she knew the truth would come out. And why should she when the IDIOT Commish will play GOD for her!!!
the same commish that swept the ray rice thing under the rug when he thought no one was paying attention then over reacted in the other direction.
People that support that stupid deflategate witch-hunt support that idiot Goodell, the guy is incompetent and his decisions are a coin toss
The suspension was for not turning over his phone not "cheating".
Might as well face it Patriots fans...Patriots haters are now in a similar mode with Yankees haters of the past. Remember that a very popular Hollywood movie and Broadway play was called "Damn Yankees" in which the basic premise of the story was about hating the New York Yankees.
Let's call out some of those Yankees players who instilled that hate, shall we? Names such as Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, Maris, Berra, Ford, etc, etc, etc. Individually thought of by most people as class acts. However collectively over the years as a team, because of taking championships away from other cities, they were hated for that.
The Patriots are receiving this same sort of hate now. Despite the fact that Robert Kraft, Bill Belichick, Tom Brady, etc. etc, etc, are class acts by any reasonable definition, they are scorned and ridiculed by many who are jealous because of their winning.
With some haters, the hate for the Patriots actually goes much deeper because of underlying personal reasons such as these Patriots being friendly with our current president.
Steve I 100% agree and I faced those facts a very long time ago. You have read me posting “Jealous Pats Haters” a bunch of times over the years and I have always stood by that as facts. Like the saying goes here in NE “They hate us because they ain’t us”
Gosh you guys are such prolific debaters. When faced with an irrefutable fact your response is to gang up and say "he's a Pats hater." What a childish, weak rebuttal. Put on your big boy pants and try to give me an adult response,
Why did Brady get suspended?
For selling Girl Scout cookies?
Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.
LOL
he got suspended because the nfl can suspend a player any time it wants. They needed to support the narrative.
We also got a good taste of the fake news thats sweeping the country now. ESPN story full of nonsense which is later proven to be wrong but ESPN never feels the need to retract any of it, they just leave it all lying out there.
If it had happened 2 years later they would be claiming Putin was behind it
Oh, so it was a conspiracy.
Robert Kraft has enough money to debunk that theory, why didn't he do it? Kraft isn't going to throw away draft picks, a million bucks and have his star QB sit 4 games. Right he did try to prove it wasn't true, and it went to court. The judge said evidence of ball tampering was "compelling, if not overwhelming." Maybe he's part of the conspiracy too, right? Another Pats hater. LMAO
Cone on bronco, I asked for a real explanation. That doesn't get it.
He was supposedly suspended for not turning over a phone. So 4 games for that equates not turning a phone in to beating the crap out of a woman. Its literally the same offense.
I always assumed they screwed with the balls , I just feel that every team does it all the time and the league turned a blind eye to it. Every once in a while though they decide to make an example and hilarity ensues.
I think if tom had turned the phone in , the NFL would have covered up for the pats by saying there was nothing on it. But because he dug his heels in they were able to lay the wood on him for non compliance so it looked like they were strong on the subject. After the string of failures they were having it was an attempt to regain control of the narrative that they were tough on things.
Another example of the league corruption is PED's . This year Edeleman got popped for 4 games . Do I think he was innocent? No I think everyone that goes to Brady's guru is on PED's nonstop and either they slipped up with whatever they mask them with and Julian threw a positive or they all did and they had to offer up a scapegoat and he drew the short straw.
I think you guys are all crazy to care one way or another about it. Football is not real life , its entertainment and it doesn't matter what they do as long as I am entertained. I don't think there is anything pure or noble about football , there is nothing inherently moral about how a sport is conducted , sports is not important. Entertain me personally right now or go die in a fire and I'll watch something else.
I see you failed at contributing an adult response. You aren't very entertaining either. Perhaps their is a Pats fan who can debate the facts like an adult.
Let's stick to the facts, are you up for that?
Kraft and Brady spent millions trying to overturn the ruling, but failed.
April 25, 2016: Brady's suspension is reinstated.
May 23, 2016: Brady files an appeal for a second hearing by the Second Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals in regard to his four-game suspension.
July 13, 2016: The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals denies Brady's appeal in regard to his four-game suspension imposed by the NFL.
July 15, 2016: Brady announces he will not appeal his four-game Deflategate suspension to the U.S. Supreme Court.
My conclusion is correct , and I won here because I tricked you into googling nonsense in an attempt to refute my gibberish.
You put supreme court and deflategate in the same sentence , so in that sense we all lost as a country.
Your the one who can’t do a simple search here on CU. I already told you that your a dollar short and a day late to that party, it was addressed at length yet you want to drag the topic out again and look for all of us to repeat the same stuff we already typed out. I do understand that you must be extremely upset over whatever crappy team you root for and the tremendous amount of success that Tom Brady and the Pats have had but hey it is what it is, the sooner you accept it the healing for you will begin.
@bronco2078 said:
Wrong Brady took it to the SC, not me. So you see Brady made us lose as a country.
Unfortunately your responses are worth about the same as Dimeman's, and perkdogs. Bandwagon, childish responses with no merit.
Brady, you, Dimeman,, perkdogs and the other bandwagon fans lose.
The truth wins. Deal with it.
ya we lost 3 out of 9 superbowls and won the other six 2 of which were against the rams
Little boy: "Mommy there's a man on the internet, and he hurt my feelings with the truth about Tom Brady."
Mother: "That's okay sonny, don't cry, if anyone tells you the truth, and it upsets you, just call him a "Pats Hater."
More like “Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa The Patriots Won again! Not fair they cheated”. 🙄
Let's tell it straight. The Yankees hating was at least understandable. For decades they far outspent other teams for players. That is a much more realistic definition of a rigged outcome than some minor deflated footballs.
So that being said, as a football fan, how can anyone other than for the reason previously mentioned relating to our current president, not like the Patriots?
The Patriots do everything the right way...thru intelligence, planning and hard work. Kraft hires Belichick who turns into the GOAT head coach, and Belichick drafts Brady who arguably is the GOAT quarterback. How can you not admire and respect that?
Belichick every off season, cleverly and skillfully seems to weed out the players from his team who he feels got too full of themselves after winning a championship and aren't as motivated, and keeps and finds the right players out there who are hungry to do it again or win it for the first time. That is an art at the highest level, figuring out human behavior in athletes, and then coaching them up and motivating them to win championships.
While other dead head GM's pay the latest free agent players too much money coming off individual record seasons, and then wonder why the player under performs the next season for their team, Bill Belichick consistently finds the right players, pieces together a very complex puzzle, to form teams that win football games.
Nothing was given to the Patriots under Belichick and Brady. They earned those championships, and my hats off to them.
If they win more championships that's fine with me, just as long as it's not against my Eagles.
I wasn't going to post in this thread any longer as it had become too childish, but your post is worth replying to.
I certainly agree with most of what you said. However the Patriots have been caught breaking the rules and that is also part of the story. They don't do EVERYTHING right.
I have congratulated them on their victories. Some here seem to think they are flawless and anyone who points out that fact is a "hater". I am absolutely not a "hater", merely pointing out that they are not perfect.
I have never once said they only win because they cheat. Belichick, Brady and now Edelman have all been penalized for breaking the rules. You can make all the excuses you want, but those are facts.
Making childish personal attacks on people who point that out doesn't help your case.
@JoeBanzai, look I am a unbiased fan of the Patriots we all know this and yes I will agree that they have done a ton of shady things over the years but I grow tired of the haters that dismiss their success because of “Cheating” I mean let’s be real here, all professional sports teams do a million things that could be considered “Cheating” and right wrong or indifferent it goes with the territory of magnifying it when it comes to winners, nobody cares if the Buffalo Bills or the Detroit Lions do something scretchy am I right? I certainly think so. The Patriots are not squeaky clean by no means I admit that but again they are not the only team and not every player is a role model for every little thing. They paid their dues two fold and still win. Appreciate their long tradition of success or not it really don’t matter because at the end of the day they are a winning franchise in an ugly dirty business
Paul,
Check your PM
Al
Got it bud 🍻
Wow, that was a pretty honest post. Except the part about being unbiased, I think we all have a little/lot of bias when it comes to "our" favorite teams.
The only reason I bring up the cheating is when Patriot fans want to anoint their team as perfection.
I have the same debate with the Packer fans here in Minnesota. If the Vikings beat the Packers or have a better record for the previous season and I dare to mention it, they are completely unable to admit it. They go off on their "How many Super Bowls have the Vikings won?" rant.
I don't dismiss either the Packers or the Patriots successes. When it begins to feel like you're "rubbing it in", you better have a clean record or you are going to hear about it.
Unfortunately, I am again this year forced to say what us Vikings fans always do "Wait 'til next year". ;-)
I would agree with the basic premise that most if not all teams cheat in some sort of way. If it's not on the football field, then it's in "bending" the salary cap rules or something else. Technically, it's all cheating.
Perhaps the Patriots accusations could be compared to horse racing. I think in most if not all states that run thoroughbred racing, the winning horse gets tested for drugs. I think in some states it may be the second place finisher as well.
The horse that ran say fifth, that trainer might have also cheated, but he doesn't get investigated for it. IE: Nobody has been investigating the Cleveland Browns for possible cheating, even if possibly they have been, because they've been losers. The Patriots get investigated because they've been winners.
If your team cheated and went 0-16 then the universe has already had its way with them an investigation at that point would just be mean spirited.
Cheating unsuccessfully is ok as the result is more damaging than any possible penalty . How bad can you hurt an 0-16 team ? they can't go below 0 % win percentage
There have been test studies done on this...that young children who lie and cheat, actually have higher IQ's than truthful, honest children. That's because it takes more brain power to formulate a lie or a cheat that could work, rather than not think about anything and just tell the truth and be honest.
These folks operating sports teams worth billions of dollars, certainly are in a top tier of intelligence. I doubt if any of them grew-up totally forthright. And certainly they are not going to stop with their behavior when billions of dollars are at stake...they just lie and cheat in a more professional manner.
I would say if they built a successful team then they are genius level . If the inherited it from a rich family member then usually they are stupid and the team is doomed. It might take 2 generations to get all the way to stupid but its inevitable
I meant that I’m biased as far as the Pats go, meaning I love them regardless. And as far as Packers fans go they love to think they are a major player in the NFL, truth is they are the most overrated and Aaron Rodgers is a a crybaby. Since the Super Bowl era the Packers are no where near the top as far as the best franchises go regardless of what people in Green Bay think
I like that maturity has come back to the thread.
@perkdog
@JoeBanzai
impressive once again
The only thing I’d like to add as a fact to this discussion is that the Patriots no doubt remarkable success has also been enabled by the incompetence and often directionless approach of the other three teams in their division.
To be clear, the Patriots have had their up and down years; having followed along with good friends of mine who I talk to and the board musings here of Pats fans, part of what made this year extra special is that it was a bit of a surprise (in as much as any Patriot title can really be considered a surprise, they’ve won so dang many) because most felt they were a little undermanned and susceptible this year (insert personal doubt here) and KC being so good, etc. They were 6-4 outside of division and earned a home game after a bye thanks in some part due to a 5-1 record against the Jets, Bills and Dolphins, the last of which earned a win in MIRACLE fashion (otherwise it’s 6-0 and 12-4).
I am not going to go year by year but you see the point and anyone can look it up if you should have doubt.
I don’t mean this as an indictment of the Patriots in any way but rather something else to consider and certainly a contributing factor to their incredible success. An extra week off to heal, plan, prepare and be home can’t be understated for a team entering the playoffs.
I’ll also point out that this is not the only team ever to benefit from it. Look at the other teams with loads of titles and when they won them - think about the Steelers have had so many terrible incarnations of the Bengals and Browns over the last thirty year period...
High level of competence against total incompetence will produce the same desirable outcome for the former 90+ percent of the time...
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Maybe we need to value character more and IQ less?
Good point.
Some of the most horrific criminals in history were geniuses. It takes a very high IQ to overcome various circumstances and become a malevolent dictator.
Good point.
I've worked for three owner's sons who were bosses. All were incompetent. One of whom wound up running a division of the company that i worked for. He got the position for no other reason than the owner was his father. It's the only time I was ever fired, mainly because I kept telling him what he was doing wrong, and he wouldn't listen, and he would usually give me the eye roll or an angry stare.
Getting fired was fine with me. I went on to make more money in another job, and his company went bankrupt about a year later.
Thanks Tim for the kind words. I cannot dispute your points, the AFC East aside from the Patriots is an absolute joke without question but really I can’t say that any other division in the NFL is a bitterly contested battleground between top teams really, most of the time it’s a battle of who is “the best mediocre one and done in the playoffs” team. The bye week absolutely helps but that cannot be or shouldn’t be held against them since they earned it right? It’s the system and set of rules they play by. But hey at the end of the day there are variables to most everything, one thing I will say is there isn’t much variables to consistency and you will not find another team as consistent as the Patriots
I don't take anything away from them because they are in a "weak" division. They still get to the SB almost every year and win it more often than not playing against the best teams.