What is a good source and a good plan for Proof Sets
yspsales
Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭✭✭
Yeah, it's easier just to buy a graded coin and past coin shows seemed to show Proof sets are generally picked over.
I enjoy a treasure hunt and would like to buy to cherrypick for my own collection and improve my grading skills.
Dealers sometimes get rightfully frustrated with mishandling, cherrypickers who waste time and don't buy etc...
Was wondering what would be good options for obtaining Proof sets up to the 1970's?
Are there ways to buy in bulk from B&M's or dealers at shows ?
Is buying in quantity, ripping and grading even viable vs a targeted approach?
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"Is buying in quantity, ripping and grading even viable vs a targeted approach?"
No . You are likely to spend a lot more money than you will find in treasures. As you said, most of the sets have been looked over.
Are you cherrypicking for high grades, cameos, or die varieties? Ebay might be your friend depending on what you are looking for. BTW, modern's in general are the worst place to park your money. Easy to buy, a bitch to sell.
Welcome, and hang around here for a year before getting out your wallet. The information here is free and will make you a wiser Numismatist.
It is easy to make $1 million in proof sets.
Start with $2 million, buy and sell, and you will have $1 million left very quickly.
Most all proofs are money losers, with the RARE RARE exception of master eagle eyed long experienced people who know exactly what to look for and find the special needle in a hay stack of needles.
Most new people are overwhelmed by how nice proof coins really are, and start seeing all of them as Proof 70's. The problem is that either they are not Proof 70's, or for some years / coins, proof 70's can be bought for less than the grading fees, as they are so common.
You would be amazed how many proof sets ultimately get broken up and used as change.
If you have to fill the slots of your Proof set collection with cameo coins, the best way to do it is to buy the coins in the holders that you want. Trying put sets together by culling through hundreds or even a thousand sets for each year can get tedious. Buying hundreds of sets would be expensive and largely fruitless because many sets have been picked over.
One of the frustrations is the one sided cameo Proof coins. You see these pieces more times than you might think, and they don’t qualify for the cameo designation.
Another issue is grading consistency. I admit that I have never tried to get cameo Proof coins graded from the ‘50s and ‘60s, but from my experience with type coins, getting the Cameo designation is not as cut and dried as you might think that it is. I’ve seen more than a few coins that I thought were cameo pieces that didn’t get it, and few that left me scratching my head as why they did get it.
My attitude toward Proof sets is a bit different. Years ago I put together a set of Proofs from 1950 to date that were almost all in the original boxes. The 1950 was not in a box because it was something special. The story was a collector in the ’50s put together sets for his kids from the best coins he received from the mint. This 1950 set was made up of those pieces. It was exceptional quality for a 1950 set, which often comes with dull surfaces, although the coins were not cameo.
Although some collectors give mint packaging a bad rap, it’s been my experience that coins left in the mint packages, that were properly stored (not in an attic or a garage), are usually well preserved. The trouble comes when collectors take the coins out of the packages and start dipping and cleaning them. That starts and endless cycle of dipping and toning that usually results in second rate coins.
Another problem with this approach (when going for the ultra grades especially) is that it is maddeningly difficult to evaluate grades thru the OGP. So many times you will think you have found a PR69 only to find it has some small defects you missed because you didn't see flaw thru the cello.
The best paln is to NOT buy them.
calling @SanctionII
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
I've bought and sold thousands of sets over the years in hopes of scoring nice cameo and varieties.
Here are a few thoughts:
I had good luck with dealers allowing me to look thru their inventory. In general, proof sets are a dog for dealers and they are more than happy to unload some. Of course, like all cherrypicking, be courteous and try not to hog the whole table so the dealer can still sell to others. When you run into a dealer that wants to show you one set at a time or won't let you look thru the sets. Just pass.
Most dealers have looked thru their sets for nice cameos, but rarely for varieties. They just don't have the time or don't care. Varieties are far easier to find than great cameos.
Finding early to mid '50s deep cameos was always tough. Old inventory has been picked over many times.
Try to find new inventory if possible as this yields better results. Sometimes lots on eBay are a good source.
Keep in mind that if you accumulate a bunch of extra sets, you eventually have to sell. What is your game plan when nobody will give you a decent offer for them? Be prepared to sell at a deep discount.
Also, what do you do with all the singles you will generate? I gave many cents and nickels to YN's - kept the silver in rolls.
Watch out for repackaged silver sets.
Good luck - the hunt is a lot of fun.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Just why do you want to fool around with proof sets? Your best move would probably be to avoid them entirely.
To me, the question might be, do you have a plan to get rid of lots of proof sets? Once you have that plan in place you can search for sources where you can buy quantity. Ideally you can find sets that have been locked away in collections.
When I started roll searching I quickly understood that I would need a place to get rid of my rejects if I wanted to step up my volume. Once I had that in place I was off to the races.
Ditto what Cameonut said.
I have collected 1970 and earlier proof sets and SMS for a long time.
I look for mostly raw sets and singles containing Cameo or DCAM coins, varieties and attractively toned coins.
These coins are hard to find in the wild, but with persistence you can find the and purchase them for modest money.
Buying a set containing 5 coins to get one special coin results in duplicates and extras accumulating. I assemble complete sets with these extra coins and sell them for back of bid to recoupe money.
When my collection is sold I hope to break even and maybe make a few bucks.
Here is a photo of my current best sets from 1950 to 1970. Upgrading this set is getting harder to do.
Its nice sometimes to see sets of coins in set holders.
That is a sharp way to display them.
I usually check for specific years and look for the variety... For example, the Accented Hair Kennedy ...I have found several by checking dealer tables at shows... also asking if they had any sets not on the table....Most frequently, I found them at small dealers tables... many do not have a B&M shop, but work out of home.... especially at small shows. Searching at shows can save you money and the accumulation of sets. Cheers, RickO
To more accurately respond to the OP:
If you can spare the time, stop by local coins shops, pawn shops, antique stores/malls, garage sales, gun stores and snoop. You never know what you will find.
Go to coins shows and browse the bourse, also check out auctions happening at the show and if their are odd lots of OGP and after market proof sets do to view them in hand at lot viewing. You never know what you will find.
Look at EBay listings. You never know what you will find (though many collectors cherry pick off of EBay and when a photo of a proof set is good quality and shows a winner the bidding will be very spirited).
Develop a good eye for quality and learn the subject matter (get the book from Rick Tomaska on 1950-1970 Cameo proof and SMS coinage, the information in the book is very helpful).
If you see a proof set with a coin that meets your criteria, ask for the asking price. If the price quoted is around bid (many dealers view proof sets as widgets not worthy of looking closely at) agree to the dealer's price. Do not haggle to save a dollar or two. If you are a repeat buyer for this material the dealer will value you as a customer. You can possibly develop an ongoing relationship with the dealer. He will know what you are looking for and will possibly bird dog proof sets for you and give you first opportunity to buy from him when he has new inventory.
At times a collection that has been off the market for 50+ years surfaces. In the collection may be a run of proof sets (i.e. 25 1958 proof sets) purchased from the mint. These 25 sets may be from the same production run. If the production run consisted of a fresh set of dies, you may find that a run of Cameo coins (i.e. 1958 half dollars) are present in these sets [this happened to me last September when I picked up 6 1965 SMS sets containing a run of 6 gorgeous Cameo nickels].
Resist the urge to buy unopened sets. The chances of finding cherries in them are small, pricing for unopened sets is high (the hidden treasure aspect of things) and you may end up with nothing but ugly coins.
Buying large amounts of these sets, unsearched by you prior to the purchase, is a waste of time and money. A large majority of these sets have been searched multiple times over for Cameos, toned coins, and varieties. You will regret spending the money to purchase them and spending the time looking through them. Better to look before you buy.
Dealers may or may not welcome you as a customer. Avoid those who do not. Treat those who do welcome you with respect and loyalty. If you are allows to look through his inventory at a shop or show, if you do not find any coin you want to buy, make a token purchase anyway, even if it is just supplies. Having a good relationship with dealers will reward you in the end.
Put together your best sets for the years you collect, fill holes and upgrade. Over time your collection will become more complete and of high quality. Take photos and post your sets on the forums to share them with other collectors. Look at Registry Sets for these coins to determine what is and what is not quality for a give date and denomination.
Have fun.
Beautiful sets you have there. Wow! Looks like a lot of patients and hard work. Well done
Until it comes time to sell ... unfortunately.
Source: Any Dealer
Plan: Don't buy because no one wants them
Thank you for the comments...
Thank you for the feedback.
I am on an 18 month plan to recoup some baseball card investments and take the profits and found money and venture back into coins.
In my past forays into coins (and baseball cards), I have found it is easy to spend money stupidly.
Usually I end up overwhelmed with quantity and never have money for the quality.
Proof sets seem like fun direction to take a cheaper and fun way to collect.
Having been away a few years, I plan to spend money traveling to major shows, auctions, as well as taking the ANA courses.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
I have a run from 1956 to present. I’ll get the 2019s just to have them all, but they don’t bring me much enjoyment anymore.
Another point is that when you buy proof sets to obtain one coin, you have 4 extras that are probably bland and uninteresting. You should keep track of these extras and replace the one coin you removed with another coin that is run of the mill. You then have a complete set that you should sell back into the market to recoup a portion of your purchase price. In that manner you will have lowered your acquisition cost for the nice coin and parted with a proof set you do not want.
When you accumulate some nice coins you will eventually have duplicates. You can assemble proof sets that have all 5 coins being Cameos, or toned, etc. You can either keep these better sets, or try to sell them at a premium to collectors (usually not dealers unless they specialize in these coins/sets). If you hold onto them, you can enjoy them and dispose of them later (or pass them to your heirs).
For the really nice coins of the earlier dates you can also decide to slab them in the hope of getting a high grade and a designation that makes it valuable enough to justify spending the money to slab the coins.
Whether you will break even, take a loss, or make a profit when you sell your cherry picked proof sets is unknown. If your purchases are with discretionary cash and you enjoy the hobby then whether you take a profit or a loss is not that important, particularly since most of the raw proof and SMS sets from 1950-1970 are very inexpensive at this time. Only the 1950 to 1953 sets will set you back over $100.00 in today's market. 1954 through 1970 raw sets are very inexpensive, even those with DCAM coins.
If you do not want to buy raw examples of these coins, you can save time and you can save the expense of slabbing by simply looking for and buying high grade Cameo and DCAM examples of these coins that have already been slabbed. Some of these slabbed coins are very cheap, but some of them you will have to pay substantial dollars for.
I quit buying proof and mint sets back in 2006.
With the exception of the sets that contain silver, I find them to be nothing but clutter.
Be patient.
There are a lot more uncherried sets out there than most think. You have to catch them as they first come on the market from old estates.