Hidden counting machine damage!

Insider2 · January 22, 2019 3:16PM

This SLQ looks like a 64 to 65 coin. Many won't like the toning but without it the scrape damage on the head and letters around the circumference of the piece would be more obvious.

Insider2 · January 22, 2019 3:17PM

AUandAG · January 22, 2019 3:33PM

Wrapping damage.....

bob

abcde12345 · January 22, 2019 3:38PM

Step back with the camera my dudes so we can see all of the coin.

chesterb · January 22, 2019 4:38PM

How do you know it's from a counting machine and not just a form of other friction? Is there a diagnostic to look for?

OldEastside · January 22, 2019 4:41PM

That could be from those small short surfer dudes using it as a Frisbee at Pebble Beach

Steve

Insider2 · January 22, 2019 4:47PM

I call it counting wheel damage. many believe It occurs when the coins are rolled after being counted. When you see a circular gouge around the inner rim of a coin, that's what happened. Most of the time the damage is only on one part of the coin. I've even seen this on 19th Century Liberty nickels all the way up to modern coins and SE. Perhaps they had coin wrapping machines in the late 1800's.

jesbroken · January 22, 2019 5:03PM

I've bought several with this damage and have skipped bidding on many others. Most damages are evident, while some are not. On ebay, if the coins cannot be enlarged, you run the risk of missing some coins with wrapping machine damage or counting wheel damage. Thanks for posting this I2, as it may help others from missing this damage.
Jim

Namvet69 · January 22, 2019 5:09PM

I don't like that type of damage at all.

AUandAG · January 22, 2019 5:43PM

@Insider2 said:
I call it counting wheel damage. many believe It occurs when the coins are rolled after being counted. When you see a circular gouge around the inner rim of a coin, that's what happened. Most of the time the damage is only on one part of the coin. I've even seen this on 19th Century Liberty nickels all the way up to modern coins and SE. Perhaps they had coin wrapping machines in the late 1800's.

They did not have coin wrapping machines in the 1800's, don't try to get one over on me, Insider2!

The coins you have seen it on were wrapped in the last 50 years, most likely.

bob

RogerB · January 22, 2019 5:56PM

The US Mint did not use automatic counting machines until the 1930s.

Insider2 · January 22, 2019 6:18PM

@AUandAG said:

@Insider2 said:
I call it counting wheel damage. many believe It occurs when the coins are rolled after being counted. When you see a circular gouge around the inner rim of a coin, that's what happened. Most of the time the damage is only on one part of the coin. I've even seen this on 19th Century Liberty nickels all the way up to modern coins and SE. Perhaps they had coin wrapping machines in the late 1800's.

They did not have coin wrapping machines in the 1800's, don't try to get one over on me, Insider2!

The coins you have seen it on were wrapped in the last 50 years, most likely.

bob

Why would these marks appear on type coins dating in the 1800's? I've seen half dimes and even Trimes as this. Coins were not counted by machines back then - or wrapped. Bottom line, I don't really care what caused these marks. I posting what "we" called them in the 70's and I never bothered to ask the opinion of anyone working at the mint.

This has become interesting. I like the coin wrapper for moderns. What about the oldies? What about the real oldies?

chesterb · January 22, 2019 6:22PM

Thanks for posting this as I will be on the look-out for this type of damage in the future.

abcde12345 · January 22, 2019 8:39PM

Whole coin photos please (and please remove that gold Instagram type filter).

ChrisH821 · January 22, 2019 9:41PM

Is this a "details" coin or does it just get netted down some?

CuKevin · January 22, 2019 11:38PM

@Insider2 said:
I call it counting wheel damage. many believe It occurs when the coins are rolled after being counted. When you see a circular gouge around the inner rim of a coin, that's what happened. Most of the time the damage is only on one part of the coin. I've even seen this on 19th Century Liberty nickels all the way up to modern coins and SE. Perhaps they had coin wrapping machines in the late 1800's.

This is not a wheelmark or counting wheel damage.
It is coin wrapper damage, as you later call it.

Insider2 · January 24, 2019 6:12PM

@ChrisH821 said:
Is this a "details" coin or does it just get netted down some?

@CuKevin said:

@Insider2 said:
I call it counting wheel damage. many believe It occurs when the coins are rolled after being counted. When you see a circular gouge around the inner rim of a coin, that's what happened. Most of the time the damage is only on one part of the coin. I've even seen this on 19th Century Liberty nickels all the way up to modern coins and SE. Perhaps they had coin wrapping machines in the late 1800's.

This is not a wheelmark or counting wheel damage.
It is coin wrapper damage, as you later call it.

It is post mint damage. It should go into a "detailed" slab. Unfortunately, this type of damage may be missed. On a beautiful MS coin as this, some may just "net" its grade. I don't agree with this folly. The coin initially looked like a toned Uncirculated specimen in the 64 to 65 range. How low are you going to net grade it to reflect its value?

erwindoc · January 24, 2019 6:46PM

I have missed this type of damage on one coin from each of the last 3 batches of coins I have sent in. Two I found, after I got them back from the grading company. The other, Im still trying to figure out where the marks are hidden!

ChrisH821 · January 25, 2019 9:56AM

@Insider2 said:

@ChrisH821 said:
Is this a "details" coin or does it just get netted down some?

@CuKevin said:

@Insider2 said:
I call it counting wheel damage. many believe It occurs when the coins are rolled after being counted. When you see a circular gouge around the inner rim of a coin, that's what happened. Most of the time the damage is only on one part of the coin. I've even seen this on 19th Century Liberty nickels all the way up to modern coins and SE. Perhaps they had coin wrapping machines in the late 1800's.

This is not a wheelmark or counting wheel damage.
It is coin wrapper damage, as you later call it.

It is post mint damage. It should go into a "detailed" slab. Unfortunately, this type of damage may be missed. On a beautiful MS coin as this, some may just "net" its grade. I don't agree with this folly. The coin initially looked like a toned Uncirculated specimen in the 64 to 65 range. How low are you going to net grade it to reflect its value?

I agree that this should be in a detail holder, I guess my question is at what point does it become "too much"? Maybe if the wrapping machine had only hit one device? Two?

Insider2 · January 25, 2019 12:16PM

@erwindoc said:
I have missed this type of damage on one coin from each of the last 3 batches of coins I have sent in. Two I found, after I got them back from the grading company. The other, Im still trying to figure out where the marks are hidden!

Post an image!

@ChrisH821 said: "I agree that this should be in a detail holder, I guess my question is at what point does it become "too much"? Maybe if the wrapping machine had only hit one device? Two?"

I'm a very-strict, old school commercial grader. My peers humor me. This is damage. If a TPGS finalizer, coin dealer, or coin collector wishes to ignore it, that's a personal or business decision. My job is simply to find it and point it out.

clarkbar04 · January 25, 2019 12:20PM

I just returned a raw one on an otherwise GEM bu SLQ that had miss liberty's face polished up very pretty. I've seen another that was pretty severe. (I've also seen a pretty bad one in a straight graded holder!)

These must have been several horsepower motors attached to those machines, whatever they are called.

ctf_error_coins · January 25, 2019 12:21PM

I have seen so many cases of counting machine damage both raw and in holders

My type of coins tend to get stuck in machines

Insider2 · January 25, 2019 12:54PM

I got this in pocket change yesterday. Neat little die chips on the obverse in the hair and over the eye.

Hidden counting machine damage!

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