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Hidden counting machine damage!

Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

This SLQ looks like a 64 to 65 coin. Many won't like the toning but without it the scrape damage on the head and letters around the circumference of the piece would be more obvious.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

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    AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,544 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wrapping damage.....

    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
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    abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Step back with the camera my dudes so we can see all of the coin.

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    chesterbchesterb Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How do you know it's from a counting machine and not just a form of other friction? Is there a diagnostic to look for?

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    OldEastsideOldEastside Posts: 4,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That could be from those small short surfer dudes using it as a Frisbee at Pebble Beach

    Steve

    Promote the Hobby
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I call it counting wheel damage. many believe It occurs when the coins are rolled after being counted. When you see a circular gouge around the inner rim of a coin, that's what happened. Most of the time the damage is only on one part of the coin. I've even seen this on 19th Century Liberty nickels all the way up to modern coins and SE. Perhaps they had coin wrapping machines in the late 1800's.

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    jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,329 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've bought several with this damage and have skipped bidding on many others. Most damages are evident, while some are not. On ebay, if the coins cannot be enlarged, you run the risk of missing some coins with wrapping machine damage or counting wheel damage. Thanks for posting this I2, as it may help others from missing this damage.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
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    Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,677 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't like that type of damage at all.

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    AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,544 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    I call it counting wheel damage. many believe It occurs when the coins are rolled after being counted. When you see a circular gouge around the inner rim of a coin, that's what happened. Most of the time the damage is only on one part of the coin. I've even seen this on 19th Century Liberty nickels all the way up to modern coins and SE. Perhaps they had coin wrapping machines in the late 1800's.

    They did not have coin wrapping machines in the 1800's, don't try to get one over on me, Insider2!

    The coins you have seen it on were wrapped in the last 50 years, most likely.

    bob ;)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The US Mint did not use automatic counting machines until the 1930s.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AUandAG said:

    @Insider2 said:
    I call it counting wheel damage. many believe It occurs when the coins are rolled after being counted. When you see a circular gouge around the inner rim of a coin, that's what happened. Most of the time the damage is only on one part of the coin. I've even seen this on 19th Century Liberty nickels all the way up to modern coins and SE. Perhaps they had coin wrapping machines in the late 1800's.

    They did not have coin wrapping machines in the 1800's, don't try to get one over on me, Insider2!

    The coins you have seen it on were wrapped in the last 50 years, most likely.

    bob ;)

    Why would these marks appear on type coins dating in the 1800's? I've seen half dimes and even Trimes as this. Coins were not counted by machines back then - or wrapped. Bottom line, I don't really care what caused these marks. I posting what "we" called them in the 70's and I never bothered to ask the opinion of anyone working at the mint.

    This has become interesting. I like the coin wrapper for moderns. What about the oldies? What about the real oldies? :)

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    chesterbchesterb Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for posting this as I will be on the look-out for this type of damage in the future.

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    abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Whole coin photos please (and please remove that gold Instagram type filter).

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    ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,341 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is this a "details" coin or does it just get netted down some?

    Collector, occasional seller

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    CuKevinCuKevin Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    I call it counting wheel damage. many believe It occurs when the coins are rolled after being counted. When you see a circular gouge around the inner rim of a coin, that's what happened. Most of the time the damage is only on one part of the coin. I've even seen this on 19th Century Liberty nickels all the way up to modern coins and SE. Perhaps they had coin wrapping machines in the late 1800's.

    This is not a wheelmark or counting wheel damage.
    It is coin wrapper damage, as you later call it.

    Choice Numismatics www.ChoiceCoin.com

    CN eBay

    All of my collection is in a safe deposit box!
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ChrisH821 said:
    Is this a "details" coin or does it just get netted down some?

    @CuKevin said:

    @Insider2 said:
    I call it counting wheel damage. many believe It occurs when the coins are rolled after being counted. When you see a circular gouge around the inner rim of a coin, that's what happened. Most of the time the damage is only on one part of the coin. I've even seen this on 19th Century Liberty nickels all the way up to modern coins and SE. Perhaps they had coin wrapping machines in the late 1800's.

    This is not a wheelmark or counting wheel damage.
    It is coin wrapper damage, as you later call it.

    It is post mint damage. It should go into a "detailed" slab. Unfortunately, this type of damage may be missed. On a beautiful MS coin as this, some may just "net" its grade. I don't agree with this folly. The coin initially looked like a toned Uncirculated specimen in the 64 to 65 range. How low are you going to net grade it to reflect its value?

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    erwindocerwindoc Posts: 4,927 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have missed this type of damage on one coin from each of the last 3 batches of coins I have sent in. Two I found, after I got them back from the grading company. The other, Im still trying to figure out where the marks are hidden!

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    ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,341 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:

    @ChrisH821 said:
    Is this a "details" coin or does it just get netted down some?

    @CuKevin said:

    @Insider2 said:
    I call it counting wheel damage. many believe It occurs when the coins are rolled after being counted. When you see a circular gouge around the inner rim of a coin, that's what happened. Most of the time the damage is only on one part of the coin. I've even seen this on 19th Century Liberty nickels all the way up to modern coins and SE. Perhaps they had coin wrapping machines in the late 1800's.

    This is not a wheelmark or counting wheel damage.
    It is coin wrapper damage, as you later call it.

    It is post mint damage. It should go into a "detailed" slab. Unfortunately, this type of damage may be missed. On a beautiful MS coin as this, some may just "net" its grade. I don't agree with this folly. The coin initially looked like a toned Uncirculated specimen in the 64 to 65 range. How low are you going to net grade it to reflect its value?

    I agree that this should be in a detail holder, I guess my question is at what point does it become "too much"? Maybe if the wrapping machine had only hit one device? Two?

    Collector, occasional seller

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erwindoc said:
    I have missed this type of damage on one coin from each of the last 3 batches of coins I have sent in. Two I found, after I got them back from the grading company. The other, Im still trying to figure out where the marks are hidden!

    Post an image!

    @ChrisH821 said: "I agree that this should be in a detail holder, I guess my question is at what point does it become "too much"? Maybe if the wrapping machine had only hit one device? Two?"

    I'm a very-strict, old school commercial grader. My peers humor me. This is damage. If a TPGS finalizer, coin dealer, or coin collector wishes to ignore it, that's a personal or business decision. My job is simply to find it and point it out.

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    clarkbar04clarkbar04 Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I just returned a raw one on an otherwise GEM bu SLQ that had miss liberty's face polished up very pretty. I've seen another that was pretty severe. (I've also seen a pretty bad one in a straight graded holder!)

    These must have been several horsepower motors attached to those machines, whatever they are called.

    MS66 taste on an MS63 budget.
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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2019 12:22PM

    I have seen so many cases of counting machine damage both raw and in holders :o:o:o

    My type of coins tend to get stuck in machines B)B)B)

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I got this in pocket change yesterday. Neat little die chips on the obverse in the hair and over the eye.

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