U.K. WOMAN ARRESTED FOR FAILING TO REPORT COIN FOUND AS A CHILD
1630Boston
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Old news, but new to me 
U.K. WOMAN ARRESTED FOR FAILING TO REPORT COIN FOUND AS A CHILD
British treasure trove laws are a boon for numismatics - finders of buried artifacts must report them to authorities, but are compensated at fair market value if the treasure is purchased by a museum. But don't "forget" to report your find. If authorities get wind of it, you're in big trouble. A woman who found a rare coin in her garden as a child has been arrested for failing to report it.
A woman who found a 700-year-old coin in her garden as a child has become the first person to be convicted of failing to hand in suspected treasure. Kate Harding, 23, was prosecuted under the Treasure Act after she ignored orders to report the rare find to a coroner.
A court heard the silver piedfort marking Charles IV's ascension to the French throne in 1322 was discovered by Miss Harding 14 years ago as she worked in the garden with her mother.
Following her mother's death a short time later, Miss Harding kept the 1.4g item as a memento until she eventually approached museum experts with it last year who identified it as a piedfort, but she did not inform the coroner.
The exact use of piedforts is unknown. They are generally thicker than coins and were not used as currency. Experts have suggested they were used as guides for mint workers or as reckoning counters for officials.
Only three others have been found in the UK. One found in 2007 was bought by the British Museum for �1,800.
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Had she just been arrested once the failure to report was discovered, that would be one thing. But it looks like she was told repeatedly to report the find and declined to comply with the law so it seems she was aware of the consequences.
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It's an overreach by the state in my opinion. It you find something like this that has been in the ground for centuries on your own property, it's yours.
I hope the Saddle Ridge $20's weren't actually found in the UK.
In an archaeological sense, which is really what this is, this find would be considered an 'isolate' and not a 'site' which requires a certain density of artifacts (usually about 10 similarly related items in a small area - like one or two square meters). Isolates are not considered important since they really have no other attributable context other than maybe saying what it is and/or when it was made. Whereas a site usually provides a bit more information and context, and is suggestive of a longer habitation.
In this case, this isolated find should not necessarily warrant such extreme repercussions. Rather a financial fine would be more than adequate, if not just the seizure of the item. That being said, their laws are their laws, and the woman was told repeatedly what to do and she did not comply, and now faces those consequences!
I don't disagree with you, Bill. But, I lived there for four years and I can tell you that I, as a metal detector club member, am all too aware of the treasure trove laws in the UK.
Cheers
Bob
The fine was not that bad. Cheaper to report it though.
“She faced up to three months in jail or a fine, or both, but walked free from court on Wednesday with a conditional discharge and was ordered to pay £25 of the £300 costs.”
Follow the rules. However crazy they are.
But she found the coin in her own yard, for cryin out loud. I guess property rights don't matter.
Pete
"Under the Treasure Act 1996, treasure is defined as any single object at least 300 years old which is not a coin but has a precious metal content of at least 10 per cent."
She claims to have found the "not a coin" in about 1994-1995. The law is 1996. Must not have made much difference here.
Had she turned it over she might have scored a few bucks and had no record. She was educated as to what she had and warned on what to do. When one refuses to follow order and force the hammer, what does one expect?
There were Treasure Trove laws in the U.K. before 1996, many an accumulation of practices from the past several hundred years, but at that time (mid-1990s) there was an attempt to put order to things with a single piece of legislation. Under the prior laws, there was a stiff reporting requirement. This is nothing new.
There were some legal differences between England and Scotland too, with the Crown having rather more right to lost and buried objects in Scotland.
Perhaps the most famous treasure which escheated to the Crown because of non-compliance with the various Treasure Trove laws was the Mildenhall Treasure (found during the Second World War). The owner of that scoffed at the Laws and lost it all and was fined heavily.
The Treasure Laws are nothing new, just this inane degree of enforcement. Perhaps somebody is trying to set up a 'test case' for some reason.
I despise Spellchecker. Just despise it..
Hmm... The rest of the story...
https://bbc.com/news/10556848
Sounds like she came to her senses and did what they wanted all along.
A good reminder that there are very real differences in laws and legal concepts between various countries.
Also a good reminder to keep your trap shut.
I wonder if she is a member here?
everything removed from the dirt is an "artifact." Stupid law.
Finders, Keepers.
Gold has a world price entirely unaffected by accounting games between the Treasury and the Fed. - Jim Rickards
Having worked for a British company for many years, (and spent considerable time in the UK) I was aware of their laws regarding found artifacts. I think it is overkill...I can understand a certain part of it, wanting to preserve history, but believe there could be a better method. JMO... Cheers, RickO
Why would you even bother to go metal detecting if the state has the rights to whatever you find?
How about this. Your cat digs a hole in the yard, does his business and covers it up. Perhaps you should dig that up and send it to the authorities for an appraisal.
She should be sentenced to confront the knights who say NEE! And be forced to find a shrubbery. Peace Roy
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These laws are not terribly different from the rules the Normans instituted after William the Conqueror took over the country in 1066, almost a thousand years ago.
The Norman royalty set up hunting preserves all over England. If any unauthorized person was caught hunting on them, they were blinded or subjected to other mutilations. If you living next to a Norm preserve you could only own a dog if the animal had had its toes cut off. That way it could not chase game.
@BillJones It's not like they take without compensation. You receive market value if they take it. Additionally, they don't take everything you dig up. If there are many examples in possession of the gov in their museums, they probably won't take them and you are free to do with your find(s) as you wish.
I understand this is quite foreign to us, but in the UK and on the Continent, this is the law. Preserving history is extremely important to them. Their history is constantly on display for everyone to see. Over here, history is sold to the highest bidder sometimes never to be seen again.
Cheers
Bob
Not so different here. Try selling arrowheads & spearpoints you find on your property.
The laws here can be even more confusing (many different jurisdictions) and sometimes quite draconian.
I might well be wrong but I always understood that the Treasure Trove laws had to do with the crown (King or Queen) owning everything (land and what was under it). In the modern era, it goes to state museums if they want it.
Also, as I used to understand it, these laws only applied to finds that had gold or silver included. If it was all bronze (as in bronze ancient coins) then it was all yours.
I know that in Germany you were free to go metal detecting on public lands but you could not dig if you found something.
I know that to at least some people - including the person who explained it to me - that situation was not as absurd as it sounds to us.
JBK.
you missed part. should be similar like this:
If you found something** suspecting** to be an artifact you must notify die " landesdenkmalspflege" a government section dealing with artifacts, before you dig any further.
They will come and evaluate and will decide if it warrants to start an organized dig by their experts which are usually archaeological students . A property owner has no choice in the matter, even if they dig up your whole backyard. It could go on for some time. When they are done they will replace everything to in an as was condition .
and pay for the expenses to restore.
there is , in most cases, officially no compensation paid. the laws are complicated and have to do with inter alia rights of the state below a certain depth and the type of stuff found. I know this from a relative on who's land some old roman broken Jewelry pieces were found while planting potatoes. lucky for him, the dig ended in about 2 weeks because the items found were not important enough to continue. Apparently they find these frequently in many regions.
The story changed from her finding the coin in the garden to her mother gave her the coin after finding it in the garden?
Oh well it was only £25, but the time wasted by all involved.
Who made out? The lawyers (solicitors)....
Thx for the expanded detail.
I was in Munich, so the most likely "treasures" were WWII artifacts.
One person found an SS dress (ceremonial) dagger. Another guy told me that when he was a child he found a small bunker with a couple rifles and some hand grenades still inside. (He called the police).
Then there was Lake Starnberg.... The guy who found the bunker would go out on the lake in a boat and toss a rope overboard with a magnet attached to the end. He was always finding bullets (steel cased, obviously) that were dumped there. And in the mid 2000s, someone found a WWII era gold bowl worth a between $100,000 ad $200,000 in waist deep water near the shore.
I guess it had some Nazi connection so the owners tossed it in the lake at the end of the war.
We do have such laws in the US.
The Antiquities Act is a U.S. federal law enacted in 1906. It is officially known as ‘An Act for the Preservation of American Antiquities.’ The provisions of the Act are codified at 16 USCS 431–433.
Pursuant to the Act, any person who appropriates, excavates, injures, or destroys any historic or prehistoric ruin or monument, or any object of antiquity, situated on lands owned or controlled by the U.S. government of the United States, without the permission of the Secretary of the Department of the Government having jurisdiction over the lands on which said antiquities are situated, shall, upon conviction, be fined in a sum of not more than five hundred dollars or be imprisoned for a period of not more than ninety days, or shall suffer both fine and imprisonment, in the discretion of the court.
This applies to Nevada, as I know personally. I was approached by a Game Warden while metal detecting and informed that anything over 75 years of age has to be left where it is found. I was stunned and politely told him I was not hunting relics or antiques but was nugget hunting which is allowed. So, if you are on public land and come across an old bottle, etc, just leave it there.
bob
"This family heirloom has been passed down for centuries and now it's mine."
Is that so hard?
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"This family heirloom has been passed down for centuries and now it's mine."
Is that so hard?
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Maybe the British Museum Gift Shop will sell a replica.
Or maybe it'll be Dan Carr's next Treasure Cob.
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I would think there would be statutes of limitations in a case like this. No one was killed or defrauded except the general public in a sense.
I actually really like the UK metal detector laws. It’s a great balance between preserving history and compensating the people who found it. Just seeing it in a museum with me being credited as the finder would be a reward enough.
I appreciate that to some Americans the Portable Antiquities Scheme might seem a bit of an onerous over-reach of the authorities - but it has worked very well in Britain and most finders of "treasure" are compliant because it compensates finders for significant finds or if they are not deemed significant the finds are returned to the finder.
I own a small 17th century Irish token which in of in itself is fairly insignificant as a "treasure", but the metal detectorist who found it in 2007 found it in a rural Shropshire farm field in northern England. It was reported to the Portable Antiquities Scheme because it was an unusual find in England, especially in Shropshire. It reflected a trade route that otherwise might be lost to history. The token was reported and turned in to the authorities there, it was recorded and returned to the finder. He later sold it on eBay, I was the buyer. In order to send the token out of the UK he had to file paperwork to get an export license - took about 3-4 days, then about a week after that I received the token and all the documentation about the significance of the find of an Irish token in n. England, where and when it was found and by whom etc.
Thank you @SaorAlba for sharing your receiving experience with a found antique “treasure” from the UK.
Knowledge and patience is important.
I think they are taking Game of Thrones too far.
Boy was I confused when I read the thread title and thought she was in trouble because she didn't register a found coin as a child of hers. Hey, there are enough loony laws that that thinking isn't completely out of the realm of possibility...
Either that, or "Get thee to a Nunnery".
Pete