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The Internet and Collector Perception of Coin Scarcity
cameonut2011
Posts: 10,181 ✭✭✭✭✭
Has the Internet and the ability to almost instantaneously locate the vast majority of U.S. coin issues for sale affected your view of how common or scarce a coin is? Has the lack of challenge and loss of the hunt caused your interest to diminish? Has it influenced your collecting decisions?
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It’s let me see how rare or common coins really are. Just going to the local B&Ms gives a very limited view. If anything, it's made finding rarities even more challenging and exciting for me, for absolute rarities, condition rarities, and toners.
It is the number one reason for the bifurcation of the coin market IMO. It is difficult for common coins to out demand the near endless supply. It saddens me but I expect common coins to follow the path of stamps. The only thing that will keep coins from falling to face value is the intrinsic value for those pre-1964.
Joseph J. Singleton - First Superintendent of the U.S. Branch Mint in Dahlonega Georgia
Findley Ridge Collection
About Findley Ridge
There’s a lot of truth in the OP, and I’d take it one step further. The TPGs and the internet make many coins seem far more common than they actually are.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Actually I think it makes one realize what actually is scarce! Now a days pretty much any collectable coin you can't find online is usually a tough coin.
The internet has, for many, helped the hobby. For example, where I live, there are no coin shops or coin shows or coin clubs. I know my area is not unique in this vast country. Much different though, than when I lived in Seattle, where shows and shops were plentiful. However, the internet provides a source for those such as me.... and for new collectors, an abundance of items to choose from. I can see where it is different for high end collectors - to some extent. For them, I would counter with the availability of on line auctions for high end coins. So, really, there are good and bad points... as for most things. Cheers, RickO
The funny thing is that I used to search for “R8” on eBay and thought to myself, “(relatively) inexpensive R8 tokens are everywhere!” And there were quite a few. The trick is turning those absolute rarities into a meaningful collection. It’s easy to start with absolute rarities because you likely will not see it again. I still tend to favor absolute rarities for my collection.
For US coins, I tend to look for toners more and have picked up everything from a Sacagawea to a Seated Dollar for my toned dollar type set. It’s fun looking for these across all types for me. These are also nice because it can be hard to find a similar coin but you are going on subjective looks so it requires building up your own judgement and taste.
I’m just starting to get into condition rarities but those are more on the token and So-Called Dollar areas initially. This is an area I’ve avoided in the past because I didn’t want to pay a premium for an overall common piece with a similar look. It’s only after looking at lots of coins am I noticing differences and willing to pay for certain top pops. Some high grade coins and tokens just aren’t as eye appealing as lower grade ones so this area requires more understanding of availability history and comfort than the other two.
I seem to be able to instantaneously find ANY coin and then instantaneously find the price and instantaneously figure out if it is rare. More so if I can instantaneously find an auction record instantaneously on the Internet.
I love the internet as it shows me that the items I buy are Truly Rare and Usually Unique.
I bought this yesterday .... Show me another one, I dare you ........
Sellers photo ....
There are many, many coins that are nearly impossible to buy when you are looking. 16-D dimes and 09S-VDB cents do not fall into this category. And I am excluding rare varieties or the conditionally rare but otherwise commonplace.
A few years ago, I was looking for a 1900-S $10 Liberty, what would be generously considered a semi-semi-semi key date in the series, a long series with numerous legitimate rarities, and it took me several months to find one on the internet. If you cannot find something quickly on the internet, it’s probanly legitimately scare or those that collect them hold them tightly,
the internet has opened my eyes to what is really rare. I have been looking for months for coins that would fit my collection without any luck.
For me, this makes the hunt more fun and challenging.
In 1997 the internet showed me what was abtainable, by 2000 I migrated to condition rarities and or beautiful toning and maybe even a better price. Some of the coins that are tougher I know exist and I’m just waiting for someone to take the time to list them. I suspect that if the coin doesn’t have a minimum resale value, it might not be worth the time to upload so it sits around.
As my collecting matures, some of what is deemed common and boring to me on the net has just pushed me to searching and using the tool to find even harder to find things. I actually just got the first coins I’ve ever bought from Europe yesterday. Couldn’t have done that without the internet. I agree that it’s proven that nothing is rare, it’s just not in your back yard, but I think the internet has been around long enough now that it’s likely done influencing the floor. On the other hand, the sky is still the limit.
I 100% agree. I love it.
@cameonut2011 ..Has the lack of challenge and loss of the hunt caused your interest to diminish?
Not here, as I have yet to buy any coin on the internet. At some point I will maybe after exhausting all drivable locations. But, I live just north of Houston and there are plenty of opportunities in every direction. But, to be fair I am still in the early stages and looking for raw coins mostly that can be made. That seems to be more fun than just spending 5,000 on a slabbed coin which, is great too if you can afford it. Then, I have to factor in the online dangers with fakes that I have read a lot about here.
For me, the Internet also gives me an idea of how scarce problem-free coins are within a specific grade for a particular coin. A very minor example: a while back I was merely looking for 1913 / 1914 / 1915 Barber Halves in lower grades without problems. It took me much longer than I expected before I obtained problem-free examples of each for my collection, most of the ones I saw were a bit ugly. Maybe all the nice examples were out at shows and not where I could view them online, or they are harder to find than my original perception.
Twenty years ago it did... opened up a whole new world for me.
Truly rare stuff is still truly rare, though. Internet just makes it easier to find.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
There are an unimaginable number of "scarce" or "better-date" issues that are widely available in virtually all grades, yet they command prices one would expect for something actually rare.
True rarities like a lot of the mid-century P-mint half eagles and eagles, S-mint quarters, etc are remarkably underrated for what they are. Same thing goes for medals. There are plenty of really rare items out there that can be obtained for very modest prices, if you can find them. Personally, these are much more fun to target.
Dealing in Canadian and American coins and historical medals.
People possess a boundless capacity to convince themselves of things that aren't true.
That has always helped to fuel the coin market.
The internet spreads at least as much disinformation as the amount of information it provides.
The factor that tips the balance is actual personal experience.
The persons who are now jaded have become that way through the reality of their own experiences.
Isn't access to information a good thing?
do you know someone at the mint ? I see noway this would make it past quality control !
I am well connected to the industry ......
Regarding scarcity of varieties - the internet is a visual sample pool on how frequent a variety shows up as well as expected grades to be found. With that said, it demonstrates just how rare a variety is verses how common its becoming. The internet allows me to stop cherry picking a variety for flipping purposes as the market becomes very soft (1953 Proofs Re engraved Dies come to mind) and focus on other coin searches. But some folks obviously pay little attention to the market in general so a couple of sellers still expect moon money ( 1992 close AM's come to mind) and have a very hard time adjusting their prices even though the populations continue to grow.
Thus I will wait a longer to buy a variety I still need when I see just how common its becoming.
WS
https://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v14n38a11.html ps hope you get caught! I will send you soap on a rope
explain this one ....... LOL ..............
seriously I think there needs to be a investigation ! and go ahead and LOL but you will be caught !
Start a go fund me page fool ....
Actually I believe this error cent originated from paperchasesue on ebay. This seller, over the last decade, has been the best source of newly minted major mint errors. I would say that this seller is the source of 90% of newly minted error coins appearing on ebay (and maybe everywhere else). In the past, she would sell broadstruck coins by the hundreds, or even thousands. Undoubtedly, she has a connection to coin rollers, or other companies that handle large amounts of change.
Everyone in the error realm is aware of her offerings.
Oh, come on I wanted to have fun with the coupe .....
Well this thread took a weird off-topic path...
Well ya, when you have an internet stalker, things can get interesting ....
Bottom line when you have error coins time after time that would not pass quality control something is not right !
Umm, it is called a dedicated businessman.
Try it. Most people can't work for themselves because of the lack the discipline to do so.
Hard work pays off.
Try it instead of internet stalking ...
Check out this impossible error ......
No its called corruption
You really, really have a ton to LEARN about the industry.
You have Zero Facts, just fantasies.
I believe that the Internet, and its incredible ability to spread a great deal of information out to a large number of people has made it much easier to find scarce coins.
I put together a complete set of Classic gold coinage over the past three years. If I had been older and had more money in the 1960s, I don’t think that I could have done that. I shopped for coins in Philadelphia, and there were some important dealers there. Coins like the 1834 crosslet 4 $5 gold, 1838-C quarter and half eagles, the 1838-D half eagle and the 1839-D quarter eagle simply did not seem to be around in those days unless you participated in the major auctions.
Maybe some dealers had some great coins “under the table” that they showed only to their best clients, but aside from Catherine Bullowa, I don’t think that most of those dealers had the really great stuff.
That's kind of the point of this thread and what EOC was trying to say. Access to these error coins is much more available now do the internet. You speak of quality control and EOC gaining access to all of his coins. Take the mintage of that 2007-D Roosevelt Dime. The Denver mint produced over 624 million coins. If only 5 errors like that escaped their rigid quality control that would represent a rate of .0000008%. That's an astronomical great quality control rate. Yet an error like that is going to get seen and picked out of circulation or a mint set or whatever. It will be sold to a dealer and posted on the intranet or discovered by EOC who sniffs out major errors like this. Nothing wrong with it and no reason to think EOC is doing something dubious.
Chesterb, you nailed it, thank you.
Except for the mintage of the dime is only 895,628 because it is a SMS satin finish coin making it super rare and even more perplexing of how it came to me.
OK Christopher
So, regarding the first coin you questioned about my so-called mint connection. If you had read that I had bought the coin the day before and can see that it is CERTIFIED by PCGS, then how could I have a possibly flow to Denver, then flown to PCGS to have a walkthru service so I could have the coin today????? Please think things through before you post.
BM
Look what else walked in the door this week.
Coins of any date and grade are fairly common for the most part.
What is so very difficult, in the past as in today, are finding coins with the great eye appeal / originality ("Crusty" is not eye appeal it is just Fugly)
I have been collecting Barber Halves for twenty years. There are dates in the series I still have never seen in original XF or AU to my liking...a lot of them.
Seated Halves are the same. Lots of dreck, mountains of dreck sitting in plastic. Completely uncollectable.
As my collection has "evolved" the Internet has saved me a lot of time and money driving hundreds of miles each month to frustrating smaller shows. In the past few years I have completely quit going to smaller shows. If a show doesn't have at least ~100 tables, I just don't waste my time. 5 years ago, I would go to 10 to 12 shows a year. Now it's 2 or 3, however my collection has grown considerably in size and quality in that time frame.
My takeaway from this thread: if you like scarcity, modern errors are one route!
If you go through enough coins, well then you find stuff. How many coins do I have to go through to find a multi struck shield cent? Here is just today ....... now off to Coinstar for the loss .....
@lkeigwin @drddm @Barndog @spacehayduke
I've always collected early federal coinage by date and major variety and not so much by die marriage. How has the Internet changed the estimated rarity for early federal variety coins or were the initial estimates by Overton and others fairly accurate?
Indeed!
Some coins are just available because of a temporary imbalance between supply and demand.
TPG's make some coins seem more common because of overgrading or resubmissions.
FDR is related to PacMan?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Now, that one is cool looking.
You don't have a bank to dump those at? I used to go to coinstar but got tired of paying 11.9% and working the machine for 30 min. OR. Are you saying, you get to go there and get more coins from the machines