@thebigeng said:
I don't believe it!! Its pure conjecture!!
Good Job Wabbit! I agree, also nice job on getting gold stickers. I have not received one yet in 5 years...
If I understand the OP correctly.......this is a good thing. It means your coins are not undergraded. I would think this would make you happy and be a good thing. I would much rather have a coin in the correct holder than undergraded with a sticker.
@Wabbit2313 said:
I have had some threads hijacked but this one is the winner! You other drunks I can forgive but Hawaii? She might have a problem!
-He will make an offer on any CAC coin as a courtesy, but you will generally do better at >auction since he is a wholesaler. Buying happens, but a lot less than you might think
I'm sober drunk, drunk sober. Thanks for forgiving. To unhijack, please reconcile your conversation to the website.
Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
I have never understood the problem so many see with CAC, it's merely an investment. If it makes your coin more valuable or even only to be easier to convert to cash, then it's a worthy investment. I currently have none but will not say I never will.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
not absurd that someone may want a coin that is solid for a grade or near the top of the grade rather than just barely making the grade. Two coins could technically be MS64---is it absurd to have a resource to help collectors stay away from the one that barely made the grade?
First of all, if you know the series, you have an idea of where a coin is on the continuum of its grade.
Secondly, if you pay a premium fur a nice MS 64 coin which is at the top of its grade. More likely than not, JA would sticker it. But you're going to want to get it in a MS 65 holder. If your experience is anything like mine, it's not going to happen. Better to get a solid MS 64 and not deal with the situation I described. Chances are it would still get a green sticker.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
Well sounds like everything has been cleared up. A gold sticker means the coin is 1 point undergraded. But also maybe 2 points undergraded. And a green sticker means the coin is solid for the grade. But, if it gets a lower grade, it might be solid for that grade. If it goes up a grade, maybe its solid for that grade too.
"If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@Wabbit2313 ... Thanks for the information resulting from your conversation with JA. Exactly as I have understood from the beginning. I chuckle at the various 'opinions' that have developed over the years. Cheers, RickO
@Catbert said:
If CAC didn’t exist, what would we talk about?
Coins?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@ricko said: @Wabbit2313 ... Thanks for the information resulting from your conversation with JA. Exactly as I have understood from the beginning. I chuckle at the various 'opinions' that have developed over the years. Cheers, RickO
It is certainly good to send the tablets down every few years.
Thanks Wabbit for the follow up. I guess I'm a simple guy but I am focusing on purchasing CAC coins because they are easier to sell if/when that time comes.
I've been watching dealer inventories and the non-CAC material just sits there.
I appreciate the direct-from-the-source information. Vast majority of my collection isn't really CAC-able, but some of it is; eventually I'll get around to submitting.
@chesterb said:
Thanks Wabbit for the follow up. I guess I'm a simple guy but I am focusing on purchasing CAC coins because they are easier to sell if/when that time comes.
I've been watching dealer inventories and the non-CAC material just sits there.
Yup. When they pass the potatoes, take some. Even if you don't like potatoes.
Earlier on, I would get my CAC submissions back and there might be a note on a coin or 2 that he stickered, indicating he had an interest in buying that particular coin. He did this with other submitters also. I think this happens with much less frequency now.
@chesterb said:
Thanks Wabbit for the follow up. I guess I'm a simple guy but I am focusing on purchasing CAC coins because they are easier to sell if/when that time comes.
I've been watching dealer inventories and the non-CAC material just sits there.
Yup. When they pass the potatoes, take some. Even if you don't like potatoes.
Here is a recent experience of mine that shows the value assigned to a CAC sticker in today's market.
I'm only going to provide general details and not the specific date of the coin.
I purchased an PCGS MS62 CAC $20 liberty (lower mintage date) for $4400 back in 2014.
The coin was in a older blue label holder and I thought it had a shot to upgrade to a + or even a 63.
Earlier this year I decided I was going to sell this coin and I submitted it once for a regrade (in holder) in early 2018 and it came back the same grade MS62, but now in PCGS Secure holder with a Trueview.
So I sent it off to be auctioned and it was submitted to CAC before hand.
It got a green CAC sticker again and sold for $4900 (all in).
Recently the same coin showed up for sale in an auction as a PCGS MS63 non CAC.
PCGS Price guide for a 63 is nearly double what a 62 is.
I went to the PCGS Coinfacts page and could now see that my Trueview and cert# was still valid and could see 5 more Trueviews listed for this same coin (4 @ 62's and 1 @ 63).
So they must have cracked it out 5 times before getting it into a 63 holder.
The coin sold as a 63 non-CAC for $4900 (all in).
it also was in a non 'Secure' holder as 63 and in a 'Secure' holder for all of the grades as a 62.
Although the 63 had a Trueview associated with it.
To be fair to PCGS, I don't think the coin is out of place in 63 holder. I even thought that it should be a 62+ or 63.
The coin in question had a nice original 'skin' to it, and was not dipped or enhanced.
And probably the biggest take a way from this is if you are playing the crack out game, if you leave behind a easy to lookup trail of images you are probably going to get burned.
@10000lakes said:
Here is a recent experience of mine that shows the value assigned to a CAC sticker in today's market.
I'm only going to provide general details and not the specific date of the coin.
I purchased an PCGS MS62 CAC $20 liberty (lower mintage date) for $4400 back in 2014.
The coin was in a older blue label holder and I thought it had a shot to upgrade to a + or even a 63.
Earlier this year I decided I was going to sell this coin and I submitted it once for a regrade (in holder) in early 2018 and it came back the same grade MS62, but now in PCGS Secure holder with a Trueview.
So I sent it off to be auctioned and it was submitted to CAC before hand.
It got a green CAC sticker again and sold for $4900 (all in).
Recently the same coin showed up for sale in an auction as a PCGS MS63 non CAC.
PCGS Price guide for a 63 is nearly double what a 62 is.
I went to the PCGS Coinfacts page and could now see that my Trueview and cert# was still valid and could see 5 more Trueviews listed for this same coin (4 @ 62's and 1 @ 63).
So they must have cracked it out 5 times before getting it into a 63 holder.
The coin sold as a 63 non-CAC for $4900 (all in).
it also was in a non 'Secure' holder as 63 and in a 'Secure' holder for all of the grades as a 62.
Although the 63 had a Trueview associated with it.
To be fair to PCGS, I don't think the coin is out of place in 63 holder. I even thought that it should be a 62+ or 63.
The coin in question had a nice original 'skin' to it, and was not dipped or enhanced.
And probably the biggest take a way from this is if you are playing the crack out game, if you leave behind a easy to lookup trail of images you are probably going to get burned.
An easy to follow trail of pictures and the fact that it was already auctioned earlier in the same year both contributed to the final price. Plus the lure of the upgrade was gone for those bidders that like finding under-graded material.
My story - I sold my parents some coins back in the 1970's.
One was a gem 1904 $20 Lib. that I picked out from one of the large
groups I bought in Europe when I was going there on a regular basis.
In 1988 or so, I submitted all the coins to PCGS, and this gem '04
was graded PCGS MS-65.
30 years later, I consigned the entire deal to Ian at Great Collections.
He sent in all of the coins (27 pcs.) to CAC, and every one CAC'd,
except a toned 1916 Standing Lib. Quarter, PCGS MS-63. ( I had heard
that John sometimes doesn't 'like' toning....no problem).
The auction was at the end of August, and the 1904 $20 gold set a
worlds record price for ANY 1904 $20 Liberty - $22,500
Obviously, at least two bidders thought the coin was an MS-67,
because MS-65's were about $2,700 on the GS, and MS-66's about $6,500,
and 67's were on the GS at $30K.
The coin happened to be one of the nicest $20 Lib's I've seen, especially
from the many ten's of thousands that I bought in Europe from 1974 to
1997. Frosty, impeccable surfaces, lustrous, etc. etc.
I have to believe that in addition to being undergraded by today's standards,
the CAC sticker lead the bidders to have confidence that it was a nice coin.
In face, Ian told me later that the winning bidder never saw the coin in-hand!
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
@blitzdude said:
Still seems absurd that someone wants to pay for a sticker that says someone agrees with the grade that someone already paid for to have graded in a slab. Crazy, crazy, crazy world we live in.
Still boils down to a second opinion. The Director of the first TPGS, Charles Hoskins, welcomed the news that the ANA was going to publish a grading guide and start grading coins. He believed that grading was subjective and everyone should be able to get a second opinion from a different source. That's why the INSAB grading opinion was issued on a separate card from the Certificate of Authentication & the grade opinion was FREE.
Within about ten years, PCGS came along with a better "mousetrap," business model, and grading standards that were based on how coins were graded in the commercial market. I had to look for another position.
It's not a second opinion if the PCGS grade is the cumulative opinion of 3 graders. That would make it a 4th opinion.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
John has one of the best eyes out there, but you can go nuts dealing with the differences of opinion of experts re what is solid for the grade. It is my impression that he usually does not like dipped coins or coins with weak strikes, even though the latter includes most coins struck at the New Orleans mint.
Most of what I have seen that is stickered to my eye is attractive, but I still believe you need to look at the coin. As long as people are grading coins, mistakes will be made.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
@ms70 wrote: [Insider, you are a stupid ignorant person ] "It's not a second opinion if the PCGS grade is the cumulative opinion of 3 graders. That would make it a 4th opinion."
LOL, whatever! I think what you fail to realize is that graders don't always agree. That's what finalizers are for. So, when the coin leaves the TPGS it actually has only ONE GRADE grade opinion no matter how many folks examined it. Send it to CAC or a different TPGS and you'll get another opinion.
I believe there are four major grading services. I'm not going to include any knowledgeable numismatist who examines the coin. Therefore, realistically a coin can receive five professional opinions backed up with a guarantee. 4 + CAC.
Interesting... ceteris paribus, is the numismatic world better or worse off as a result of the market acceptance of CAC? If confidence is a yardstick, I say "better off". My opinion, along with a couple of bucks, will get you a tall drip at Starbucks.
@Insider2 said: @ms70 wrote: [Insider, you are a stupid ignorant person ] "It's not a second opinion if the PCGS grade is the cumulative opinion of 3 graders. That would make it a 4th opinion."
LOL, whatever! I think what you fail to realize is that graders don't always agree. That's what finalizers are for. So, when the coin leaves the TPGS it actually has only ONE GRADE grade opinion no matter how many folks examined it. Send it to CAC or a different TPGS and you'll get another opinion.
I believe there are four major grading services. I'm not going to include any knowledgeable numismatist who examines the coin. Therefore, realistically a coin can receive five professional opinions backed up with a guarantee. 4 + CAC.
So I was wrong.... A coin doesn't leave PCGS with 3 opinions... I forgot about the finalizer....It actually leaves with 4.
Thanks for clearing that up!
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
@Insider2 said: @ms70 wrote: [Insider, you are a stupid ignorant person ] "It's not a second opinion if the PCGS grade is the cumulative opinion of 3 graders. That would make it a 4th opinion."
LOL, whatever! I think what you fail to realize is that graders don't always agree. That's what finalizers are for. So, when the coin leaves the TPGS it actually has only ONE GRADE grade opinion no matter how many folks examined it. Send it to CAC or a different TPGS and you'll get another opinion.
I believe there are four major grading services. I'm not going to include any knowledgeable numismatist who examines the coin. Therefore, realistically a coin can receive five professional opinions backed up with a guarantee. 4 + CAC.
So I was wrong.... A coin doesn't leave PCGS with 3 opinions... I forgot about the finalizer....It actually leaves with 4.
@Wabbit2313 Thank you for taking the time and effort to talk to JA at CAC and pass on some factual information. The information as you reported it in your OP is the way that I had always understood it to be, so it is nice to see confirmation from the source.
It does leave me with one question though. Why?
From what others who are close to the source, including @tradedollarnut and others, possibly including yourself, that CAC does not make a profit from evaluating the coins and putting stickers on those they approve of and now you are saying that they are not offering to buy the coins they sticker and JA says you would be better off selling at auction because they are only offering wholesale then again, I have to ask, why are they doing this?
@coinhack said: "I have to ask, why are they doing this?"
I seem to recall an interview JA gave that answers your question. Anyway, it's always best to go to the source so CALL JA and ask him! Let us know what he says.
@Coinstartled said:
-My personal question that was answered and I found interesting: If a coin, for example, is MS67 Green CAC. You crack it out and it comes back MS66. It will not automatically get a Gold sticker. The coin would have to be the highest end of 67 or even a 68 to get the Gold. (This reaffirms my opinion on my personal Gold stickered coins. Most look 2 grades under)
--Why the hell doesn't he just offer full service grading without all the coding and mystery?
Guarantees and liabilities
You're only liable for guarantees if you give one. If I was running a TPG, I'd never guarantee a grade; only if it was authentic or not. Since opinions aren't facts, guaranteeing an opinion is silly. The only liability one should have is if they mishandle/damage/lose a customer's coin/s.
@Coinstartled said:
This is a thread where a non post is the best option.
I sure wish you would follow your own advice. The usual suspects.
Yeah, me too. First CAC was created to save the hobby from terrible PCGS-NGC gradeflation. Then their motivation was merely so that JA could mark the coins to identify them for possible future purchase as wholesaling is his schtick. Now he really doesn't want to buy them, we are back to saving numismatists from the evil of sloppy grading.
And I am truly confused with the Gold CAC explanation re the MS67 dropped to 66 coin. So Green means solid for the grade and gold means super PQ for the next grade...maybe even the next higher grade, or even the next higher grade.
Bitcoin was $20,000 a year ago and $3500 today. Smoke and mirrors only go so far.
I thought the initial impetus for CAC was to identify coins which had been doctored but escaped the eagle eye/s of the grader/s.
@Catbert said:
If CAC didn’t exist, what would we talk about?
We would be wondering why someone has not yet started a coin approval service to confirm the grades on the slabs and make a wholesale secondary market for them.
@RYK said: "11 years later on, and this is still being debated?"
There is a very simple reason for this...folks like to blab, look knowledgeable, and join in the fun of posting often about things they know nothing about. Cannot be helped as this is a free forum and everyone should feel welcome and enjoy the fun of posting. When I joined my first coin forum three years ago, many posts started this way: "I DON"T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS BUT..." Thankfully, CU is a more mature forum.
There is a very simple solution to this situation...
Example: In eleven years, how many times has someone commented on/ asked about/rendered an opinion on the question of JA grading EVERY COIN that is stickered? ASK HIM, GET THE ANSWER (yes or no), POST IT, and it will be answered. I'd like to know.
Does PCGS do such and such? Call them and ask! Save us the misinformation, opinions, discussion and then let all of us know what you found out. I wish I could push the phone buttons for you guys !
Comments
If I understand the OP correctly.......this is a good thing. It means your coins are not undergraded. I would think this would make you happy and be a good thing. I would much rather have a coin in the correct holder than undergraded with a sticker.
Yes I wonder what will happen to CAC bids in the sheet if they folded or he went in another direction.
I'm sober drunk, drunk sober. Thanks for forgiving. To unhijack, please reconcile your conversation to the website.
I have never understood the problem so many see with CAC, it's merely an investment. If it makes your coin more valuable or even only to be easier to convert to cash, then it's a worthy investment. I currently have none but will not say I never will.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
First of all, if you know the series, you have an idea of where a coin is on the continuum of its grade.
Secondly, if you pay a premium fur a nice MS 64 coin which is at the top of its grade. More likely than not, JA would sticker it. But you're going to want to get it in a MS 65 holder. If your experience is anything like mine, it's not going to happen. Better to get a solid MS 64 and not deal with the situation I described. Chances are it would still get a green sticker.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
So, the CAC haters/detractors won't care or change their mind on what they perceive CAC to be about
The CAC lovers won't care, nor change THEIR minds, on what they perceive CAC to be about
The people that don't fall in either of those categories, that care, is super small.
So, at the end of the day.....who cares?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
It is nice to know who's a wholesaler vs who's a re-teller.
...what could you have possibly done for the 27 minutes it took before you busted your own rule?...you probably don't have any fingernails left
You have arrived late to the drinking party.
Well sounds like everything has been cleared up. A gold sticker means the coin is 1 point undergraded. But also maybe 2 points undergraded. And a green sticker means the coin is solid for the grade. But, if it gets a lower grade, it might be solid for that grade. If it goes up a grade, maybe its solid for that grade too.
Got it.
Thanks for making it all crystal clear.
Almost forgot. John will buy any coin. Even if he doesnt want to. Of course it will be less than its worth. But he will buy it.
Me too. I will pay 1c for any graded and stickered coin. If I actually want it I might pay $1. I am a wholesaler too.
No comment.
"If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
John will buy any CAC coin.
CAC doesn't bother with many series for good reason.
If CAC didn’t exist, what would we talk about?
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
My wager is that there would be two to three times as many grade inflation threads.
@Wabbit2313 ... Thanks for the information resulting from your conversation with JA. Exactly as I have understood from the beginning. I chuckle at the various 'opinions' that have developed over the years. Cheers, RickO
Coins?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Yes something that is minuscule compared to pop of certified material lol.
It is certainly good to send the tablets down every few years.
Thanks Wabbit for the follow up. I guess I'm a simple guy but I am focusing on purchasing CAC coins because they are easier to sell if/when that time comes.
I've been watching dealer inventories and the non-CAC material just sits there.
I appreciate the direct-from-the-source information. Vast majority of my collection isn't really CAC-able, but some of it is; eventually I'll get around to submitting.
Me too
Yup. When they pass the potatoes, take some. Even if you don't like potatoes.
Earlier on, I would get my CAC submissions back and there might be a note on a coin or 2 that he stickered, indicating he had an interest in buying that particular coin. He did this with other submitters also. I think this happens with much less frequency now.
Save room for the apple pie.
Wabbit, does John Albanese look at every coin sent? Or are there other people doing it for him?
My YouTube Channel
I already knew this because JA told me so !
Here is a recent experience of mine that shows the value assigned to a CAC sticker in today's market.
I'm only going to provide general details and not the specific date of the coin.
I purchased an PCGS MS62 CAC $20 liberty (lower mintage date) for $4400 back in 2014.
The coin was in a older blue label holder and I thought it had a shot to upgrade to a + or even a 63.
Earlier this year I decided I was going to sell this coin and I submitted it once for a regrade (in holder) in early 2018 and it came back the same grade MS62, but now in PCGS Secure holder with a Trueview.
So I sent it off to be auctioned and it was submitted to CAC before hand.
It got a green CAC sticker again and sold for $4900 (all in).
Recently the same coin showed up for sale in an auction as a PCGS MS63 non CAC.
PCGS Price guide for a 63 is nearly double what a 62 is.
I went to the PCGS Coinfacts page and could now see that my Trueview and cert# was still valid and could see 5 more Trueviews listed for this same coin (4 @ 62's and 1 @ 63).
So they must have cracked it out 5 times before getting it into a 63 holder.
The coin sold as a 63 non-CAC for $4900 (all in).
it also was in a non 'Secure' holder as 63 and in a 'Secure' holder for all of the grades as a 62.
Although the 63 had a Trueview associated with it.
To be fair to PCGS, I don't think the coin is out of place in 63 holder. I even thought that it should be a 62+ or 63.
The coin in question had a nice original 'skin' to it, and was not dipped or enhanced.
And probably the biggest take a way from this is if you are playing the crack out game, if you leave behind a easy to lookup trail of images you are probably going to get burned.
An easy to follow trail of pictures and the fact that it was already auctioned earlier in the same year both contributed to the final price. Plus the lure of the upgrade was gone for those bidders that like finding under-graded material.
My story - I sold my parents some coins back in the 1970's.
One was a gem 1904 $20 Lib. that I picked out from one of the large
groups I bought in Europe when I was going there on a regular basis.
In 1988 or so, I submitted all the coins to PCGS, and this gem '04
was graded PCGS MS-65.
30 years later, I consigned the entire deal to Ian at Great Collections.
He sent in all of the coins (27 pcs.) to CAC, and every one CAC'd,
except a toned 1916 Standing Lib. Quarter, PCGS MS-63. ( I had heard
that John sometimes doesn't 'like' toning....no problem).
The auction was at the end of August, and the 1904 $20 gold set a
worlds record price for ANY 1904 $20 Liberty - $22,500
Obviously, at least two bidders thought the coin was an MS-67,
because MS-65's were about $2,700 on the GS, and MS-66's about $6,500,
and 67's were on the GS at $30K.
The coin happened to be one of the nicest $20 Lib's I've seen, especially
from the many ten's of thousands that I bought in Europe from 1974 to
1997. Frosty, impeccable surfaces, lustrous, etc. etc.
I have to believe that in addition to being undergraded by today's standards,
the CAC sticker lead the bidders to have confidence that it was a nice coin.
In face, Ian told me later that the winning bidder never saw the coin in-hand!
It's not a second opinion if the PCGS grade is the cumulative opinion of 3 graders. That would make it a 4th opinion.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
John has one of the best eyes out there, but you can go nuts dealing with the differences of opinion of experts re what is solid for the grade. It is my impression that he usually does not like dipped coins or coins with weak strikes, even though the latter includes most coins struck at the New Orleans mint.
Most of what I have seen that is stickered to my eye is attractive, but I still believe you need to look at the coin. As long as people are grading coins, mistakes will be made.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
LOL, whatever! I think what you fail to realize is that graders don't always agree. That's what finalizers are for. So, when the coin leaves the TPGS it actually has only ONE GRADE grade opinion no matter how many folks examined it. Send it to CAC or a different TPGS and you'll get another opinion.
I believe there are four major grading services. I'm not going to include any knowledgeable numismatist who examines the coin. Therefore, realistically a coin can receive five professional opinions backed up with a guarantee. 4 + CAC.
Interesting... ceteris paribus, is the numismatic world better or worse off as a result of the market acceptance of CAC? If confidence is a yardstick, I say "better off". My opinion, along with a couple of bucks, will get you a tall drip at Starbucks.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Me too.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
So I was wrong.... A coin doesn't leave PCGS with 3 opinions... I forgot about the finalizer....It actually leaves with 4.
Thanks for clearing that up!
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
There's a saying about opinions that I've heard but I can't remember exactly how it goes right now.
We pay for them, so......
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Nope, I'm wrong. We need to include the QC guy.
nooooo...... that doesn't ring a bell....
@Wabbit2313 Thank you for taking the time and effort to talk to JA at CAC and pass on some factual information. The information as you reported it in your OP is the way that I had always understood it to be, so it is nice to see confirmation from the source.
It does leave me with one question though. Why?
From what others who are close to the source, including @tradedollarnut and others, possibly including yourself, that CAC does not make a profit from evaluating the coins and putting stickers on those they approve of and now you are saying that they are not offering to buy the coins they sticker and JA says you would be better off selling at auction because they are only offering wholesale then again, I have to ask, why are they doing this?
@coinhack said: "I have to ask, why are they doing this?"
I seem to recall an interview JA gave that answers your question. Anyway, it's always best to go to the source so CALL JA and ask him! Let us know what he says.
You're only liable for guarantees if you give one. If I was running a TPG, I'd never guarantee a grade; only if it was authentic or not. Since opinions aren't facts, guaranteeing an opinion is silly. The only liability one should have is if they mishandle/damage/lose a customer's coin/s.
I thought the initial impetus for CAC was to identify coins which had been doctored but escaped the eagle eye/s of the grader/s.
He be the finalizer who has the last word about whether the coin beans or not.
11 years later on, and this is still being debated?
We would be wondering why someone has not yet started a coin approval service to confirm the grades on the slabs and make a wholesale secondary market for them.
@RYK said: "11 years later on, and this is still being debated?"
There is a very simple reason for this...folks like to blab, look knowledgeable, and join in the fun of posting often about things they know nothing about. Cannot be helped as this is a free forum and everyone should feel welcome and enjoy the fun of posting. When I joined my first coin forum three years ago, many posts started this way: "I DON"T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS BUT..." Thankfully, CU is a more mature forum.
There is a very simple solution to this situation...
Example: In eleven years, how many times has someone commented on/ asked about/rendered an opinion on the question of JA grading EVERY COIN that is stickered? ASK HIM, GET THE ANSWER (yes or no), POST IT, and it will be answered. I'd like to know.
Does PCGS do such and such? Call them and ask! Save us the misinformation, opinions, discussion and then let all of us know what you found out. I wish I
could push the phone buttons for you guys 
! 