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So what is up with INS coin holders i.e. International Numismatic Society?
afford
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Were they a good and reliable slabbing company years ago? Never heard of them before?
Thanks
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As I recall they were some pretty far off graders. The coin you're considering should probably be assumed raw, then go from there.
I've seen them from time to time but I am not familiar with their history and I'm looking forward to learn more about it of your thread
It does not surprise me that most folks have not heard of INS although it was the second Authentication Service in the US. Let's see what I can remember...
The International Numismatic Society (INS) was established in DC around 1975 - 76 (I forgot) by Charles Hoskins and a group of well-established US, world, and ancient coin dealers when ANACS left DC and Hoskins (the Director of ANACS) and most of the staff elected to stay behind. Chuck and I worked at INS's Authentication Bureau. We authenticated ancients, tokens, medals, and coins from any country or era. INSAB was the service that authenticated the 1870-S Half dime after it was discovered. The INS had several yearly conventions with auctions in Washington, DC.
Before leaving ANACS Charlie and I were at the first grading roundtable where plans were being made for the ANA to start grading coins after the publication of a grading guide. ANACS was moved to CO before the guide was published. INS was the FIRST THIRD-PARTY COIN GRADING SERVICE beating the ANA by several months. Charlie and I graded coins for free upon request an sent out our opinion on a separate card from the Photo Certificate of Authenticity. As soon as the ANA started charging folks for a grading opinion we began charging extra for grading. Unfortunately, The ANA system of grading had some major flaws - chief of which was to combine the amount of wear on a coin with the number of marks. Additionally, while they claimed to have a technical grading system, no one there actually had a clue as they were never taught the system so they bastardized it. Then one day one-day coins graded MS-65 became MS-63's when they had to conform to the marketplace.
We used the "technical grading system" I devised for the internal records of ANACS when I worked there. This "true" technical system was based on the old standards of "No trace of wear." Since it was very strict, the grading was very precise with no wiggle room and very little subjectivity. The system was designed so that a coin would always be the same grade over time as long as its condition did not change. We were only concerned with its condition of preservation from when it was struck so a flat strike and eye appeal were not that important. The system was to identify a coin along with a weight and photo - NOT TO PLACE A VALUE ON IT. That was the job of the coin dealers. Obviously, this did not work in the marketplace. Nevertheless, INSAB stayed in business until the early 1990's. I left in the late 1980's.
I have one of those old INS photo slabs, an 1891 Morgan dollar graded as MS64PL. A low end 64 but not even close to PL, bought it cheap to go with my ACG and PCI photo slabs. I don't really know much about INS (thanks insider2) for the history and I don't know if there is any way to know when the coin I have was slabbed by INS.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I don't remember when we started using the slab but we were very late to the game. We were approached to use a plastic slab a few years earlier but in one of the biggest mistakes of my life, I rejected the idea because I believed "collectors want to be able to hold their coins!" LOL.
Note; the standards for PL were very loose back then and there was even a Semi-PL designation. Even today you can find coins in PL and DMPL slabs are not.
Found this post and brought it back up from last year on odd holders
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/979671/old-odd-and-unique-holders#latest
I have sent them to Skip over the years hoping the memories would help them cross. No dice most of the time!
I did crack a 65PL a few years ago that went 66DMPL at PCGS. I have also seen many PL that are only one sided, so they are all over the place.
@Insider2, for sure the PL and DMPL designations have changed a lot over the past thirty years so anytime I see an older slab marked PL or DMPL I usually expect them not to be lol.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I remember seeing one of these slabs at a show in Seattle in the late '90's.... I believe I asked about it on this forum back then....That was the only one I have ever seen...Cheers, RickO
So, I assume you're Skip. I'm Craig Sholley. Geez, do I miss talking with you and Charlie at coin shows. Those were the days, eh?
Really great history lesson. I'd like to learn more about the transition away from the requirement that "mint state" shows no sign of circulation wear. I used to hear the term "cabinet friction" to rationalise high-point rub, but still mint state. Don't hear that too often these days - just a lot more about "market acceptable".
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Here is a cut & paste from a 2008 post on ngc
INS was the second authentication service. They started up in 1975 just a couple years after ANACS (ANACS started in 1972 not 1974 as the MyCoinCollecting site says.) It was based in Washington DC, the same place as ANACS at the time. There earliest holders used Polaroid images of the coins and the certification was on a separate certificate, at first a postcard size and then later an 8 1/2 X 11 one ith much more detail about the coin. In 1976 Charles Hoskins left as director of ANACS and moved to INS where he became the company President. In 1979 they added grading to their certificates as well.
In 1985 they licensed the use of the photoslab shells from Accugrade and began produced slabbed coins. The one Prudden posted is either an INS-3 or and INS-4 slab the difference being the addition of a serial number on the back of the INS-4.
In 1992 the company relocated to Philadelphia PA. The slabs changed to an orange label and the words Authentication Bureau were replaced with a Coin Capsule logo
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I've had a couple over the years, but never knew the story behind them, thanks for sharing the information !!!