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Triple struck $5 Gold Indian.

Jinx86Jinx86 Posts: 3,710 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

Found this in a bulk lot that came in. I always check these carefully for counterfeits. Noticed the outline of the forward wing just to the left of the main impression. Under further inspection there is another outline of the forward wing just the the left of E of "E Pluribus". Under high magnification between the beak and wing there is an impression of the beak from the 2nd strike as well. I know my images are lacking, but the wing portion of the 2nd strike is quite bold.

Atleast its not a corroded Memorial Cent.

Comments

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is certainly interesting

    Collector, occasional seller

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,929 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I see the additional 'breasts',
    but I think it's counterfeit.

    Can you shoot a few photos
    of it, closer up, and out of the
    2x2 holder?

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hmm. I'm not 100% convinced it is genuine, though it is a little hard to tell from those pictures. Harshly cleaned if nothing else. I am interested in hearing what @FredWeinberg thinks.

  • Jinx86Jinx86 Posts: 3,710 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2018 1:21PM

    Little better, not great. Tons of light on it so it does look cleaned in this image. In hand it is problem free XF.

  • jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2018 1:31PM

    If it's real, and you get it graded, I am interested. Still has the look of a counterfeit to me though.

  • ParadisefoundParadisefound Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭✭✭

    May we see the obverse?

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,839 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don’t like surfaces at all. Even if it was struck three time, they should not be that rough. I would vote counterfeit.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • JBKJBK Posts: 16,448 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Paradisefound said:
    May we see the obverse?

    Ding, ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.

    Wouldn't the obverse help diagnose/authenticate? (At least for us mere mortals who are not so adept at identifying fakes).

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,929 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the reverse photo out of the
    holder - how about an obverse photo.

    Try different lighting, if you can.

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    and edge views would help on reeding/die ejection/etc

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • Jinx86Jinx86 Posts: 3,710 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From the opening of the mouth and back and down through the jaw line into the field a second impression can be seen.


  • Jinx86Jinx86 Posts: 3,710 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Another lighting

  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,823 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Uh oh.

  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From the photos provided, I'm unconvinced that it's genuine !!! :'(

    Timbuk3
  • KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Jinx86 said:
    Another lighting

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,929 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Actually, it looks a bit better than I thought,
    out of the holder.....hmmm...but the lighting
    still isn't the best for viewing.

    However, the reeded edge looks 'circ', and
    doesn't seem to fit this high-grade piece.

    At this point, I can't be certain of it being
    good or bad just from the photos.

    Someone has to see it in-hand. Have you
    thought of submitting it to PCGS or NGC?

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • Jinx86Jinx86 Posts: 3,710 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just got it in today, PCGS was my first thought for submitting. Once there you'll be ask to look at it?

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,929 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If it's submitted under the Mint Error tier, yes,
    I should see it.......

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • silverpopsilverpop Posts: 6,745 ✭✭✭✭✭

    IMHO i'd send it in to get looked over, cause sometimes fakes are very convincing to most

    Coins for Sale: Both Graded and Ungraded
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  • jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Are you using a flash? If so, don't. That always makes them look harsh and cleaned. I am undecided on fake or real. I am a lot better with $2 1/2 Indians. I say it's worth sending in though. And be sure to let me know if it is real, cause I want it!! lol

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 9,270 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow, we got a real mystery here kids. All appreciate the images so far. I am not familiar with die variety markers on this coin. Anyone notice anything important? Peace Roy

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  • EagleguyEagleguy Posts: 2,264 ✭✭✭✭✭

    JMO but,

    JH

    Proof Buffalo Registry Set
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  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 6,599 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Would love to be wrong for your sake but my opinion it screams not genuine.

    Disclaimer: I'm no numi guru but I would have passed on it without a second thought.

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
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  • DDODDO Posts: 44 ✭✭

    Good luck!

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,766 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If PCGS or NGC certifies it double or triple struck, please call me when you get it back. Thanks!

    Mike Byers

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,768 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I could not say that it was genuine from those photographs, but there is nothing there that makes me think it is a fake.

    Gut hunch, genuine.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • AkbeezAkbeez Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I love these gold Indians! Quite a few have interesting clash marks -- mainly on the obverse. Had a nice group of them at one time. Hope yours turns out legit!!

    Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2018 5:47PM

    Maybe it's just me, but the wear pattern seems off?

    There's a considerable amount of frost in the protected areas for a $5 Indian which would have seen that much rub in circulation.

    Cleaning or dipping wouldn't bring back that mint bloom.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • tyler267tyler267 Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2018 6:48PM

    I can't tell if it's good or not from the photos. But a great find if it is. Please post the pcgs results when you get them.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I really like the Five Dollar Indians...This one is really interesting for several reasons... The 'strike' issue as noted in the OP... and then there is the luster in the incuse devices as opposed to the field wear...quite a difference... Let us know what the verdict is at PCGS... Cheers, RickO

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very cool! I hope it's real and you get it slabbed!

    My YouTube Channel

  • gotboostedvr6gotboostedvr6 Posts: 38 ✭✭

    Subbd

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This one has to go out for authentication -- from the photos, I feel it is counterfeit.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    IMO, Die Struck Counterfeit: Color and holes in arrow tips.

  • KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2018 11:30AM

    @Insider2 said:
    IMO, Die Struck Counterfeit: Color and holes in arrow tips.

    Welcome back @Insider2

    Another Indian for you

  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The initials "PLB" might indicate a problem.....or is that my bifocals? ;)

  • BustDMsBustDMs Posts: 1,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Depression between Y and star doesn’t look good to me.

    Q: When does a collector become a numismatist?



    A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.



    A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.

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