This may a silly thing to put forward, but I wonder if some of this has to do with the flagging of some coin markets now. That is, if the markets were roaring right now, most of us would be posting about that and the attendant excitement.
Interesting, slightly shocking turn of events. If nothing else, I think this emphasizes the merits of simply ignoring posts or posters rather than going after them.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@ernie11 said:
This may a silly thing to put forward, but I wonder if some of this has to do with the flagging of some coin markets now. That is, if the markets were roaring right now, most of us would be posting about that and the attendant excitement.
Maybe. In the last couple of months, there have been fewer substantive coin discussions and more just chit chat...oh, and rare doubled die errors.
But, honestly, I think more of it is the sense of ownership that a few people had taken over the Forum. They just couldn't NOT engage O2O and others. I'm sometimes guilty of trying too hard to reason with O2O and others, but I never got into a flame war with them.
With Keets disappearance as well, things are going to be very different around here for a while.
Poor @Insider2. This Forum really meant a lot to him...maybe too much.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The dust has settled, everyone is still alive, coins is the word. CU is the place to learn and share everything. I am grateful for my life today. Peace Roy, who is also in PA.
The lesson I learned is something we have all heard many times. "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything"
Striking back to one troll with the same tactics can only end badly. "Don't feed the trolls"
This was beyond trolling. Oil2Olay was actively harassing people. They got sick & tired of it and called him out on it. They are human after all. If there was active moderation it wouldn't have gotten to that point.
The lesson I learned is something we have all heard many times. "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything"
Striking back to one troll with the same tactics can only end badly. "Don't feed the trolls"
This was beyond trolling. Oil2Olay was actively harassing people. They got sick & tired of it and called him out on it. They are human after all. If there was active moderation it wouldn't have gotten to that point.
I mostly agree, but the dynamic was more complex. O2O was posting nonsense early, but it wasn't harassment. Then the flag/disagree war started. Our dearly loved and at least temporarily departed friends would flag him and he would retaliate by leaving HUNDREDS of disagrees. Then they responded by continuing to poke and prod him with flags and the war escalated.
Very early in O2O's tenure here, I had a long frustrating exchange with him that became somewhat heated. But I never flagged him and he never disagreed with me - at least not en masse. And even though I weighed in on some of the more recent threads, gently, he never responded to me or hit me with disagrees.
I think it takes two sides to have a war, even a flame war. And, while I think the carnage could have been limited to O2O - I mean, 1000 disagrees? really? - the other people involved just refused to ignore O2O and I think that's what PCGS responded to.
Hopefully, they are just temporarily suspended.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I know I am just repeating what others have said, but I hope the bans are temporary, the members banned contribute a lot to the forum community. This is a very unfortunate situation that just got way out of hand.
@TomB said:
If I am reading the boards correctly, it appears that several members have just been banned (Insider2, jwitten, spacehayduke, Oil2Olay, crazyhounddog and perhaps more) so things might get quite quiet.
Tom,
How did you tell?
Revised post - I see it now.
Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
Might I suggest we leave Mr. Willis out of these threads? The thought occurred to me yesterday while this fiasco was going on, that we might indeed lose the forum for good. This is the second time in recent history he has had to intervene. I would guess pulling the plug is one of his options.
I hope it's temporary as well, because I don't like the idea of missing out on a visual fix of some of the most beautiful gorgeous striking Buffalos I've ever seen, and a few others contributions as well
Howabout those Dallas Cowboys helping our Texans out. Good thing I was watching football all weekend, don't even know what transpired, surely would have found my 2c's.
My little suggestion is to write the administrator and say who the main culprit was and ask that they reinstate the rest.
FWIW, I'm going to do that right now.
@silverpop said:
high doubt temporary bans exist here, i gather once you are banned it's over for you on this site no second chances
Maybe, maybe not. The old platform may not have supported it. I'll again invoke phpBB features and say that the concept of being "put in time-out" for a specific amount of time or until a certain date exists there, so it is probably supported here as well. Whether the admins use it or not is a different question.
Also, a weekend mass-bamming might be a quick "load them all in the wagon and sort it out in booking" solution to a problem that needs more looking into. From where I sit, the actual solution should be unbamming most and getting rid of the "disagree" button, as it has only caused these forums unnecessary strife.
@deefree49 said:
My little suggestion is to write the administrator and say who the main culprit was and ask that they reinstate the rest.
FWIW, I'm going to do that right now.
+1,
Wow, go away for a day or two and the board blew up...
~HABE FIDUCIAM IN DOMINO III V VI / III XVI~ POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
then PM PCGS and let them know of your ideas for improving the forum and see where that goes
who knows they maybe willing to consider those ideas or maybe keep the current forum as is
never hurts to try
@silverpop said:
high doubt temporary bans exist here, i gather once you are banned it's over for you on this site no second chances
2nd chances or more were given to coinguy1 & Laura S, (Specialist). There may be others that I’m not aware of.
I’m not sure official second chances are given. No one ever seems to get their previous username back. There are 3 active, prolific posters both prior and after their ban I’m aware of. All use new names.
@BuffaloIronTail said:
One thing is for sure and that is NOTHING is for sure. Good members with sometimes "aggressive" opinions and views got caught up in this mess.
They got goaded enough to strike back.
Sad.
Roger did it right one time when another member tried to goad him into an argument. He just didn't reply. Believe me that took a lot. It stopped.
Carry on.
Pete
Agreed. Ignore the gnats and carry on.
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
@silverpop said:
high doubt temporary bans exist here, i gather once you are banned it's over for you on this site no second chances
2nd chances or more were given to coinguy1 & Laura S, (Specialist). There may be others that I’m not aware of.
I’m not sure official second chances are given. No one seems to ever get their previous username back. There are 3 active, prolific posters both prior and after their ban I’m aware of. All use new names.
They gave them in past 100 % positive
Is there an example where someone got their user reinstated? Specialist joined on Sept 22, 2017 and coinguy1 is still banned.
I have an email from a CU friend that was targeted by Oil2Olay last month. His Like vs Disagrees at the time were 150 Likes to 15 Disagrees. After logging out and logging in hours later he found is Disagrees had jumped to 100.......alll from this Oil2Olay guy. Oil2Olay had searched the forum for any old post my friend had made and hit the disagree button.
My friend contacted the forum monitor and after investigating his Disagrees were bumped back to 15. This should show the moderators that Oil2Olay has a history of harassment and contributed nothing to these boards but negativity and disruption.
Please PCGS, reinstate all banned members from this incident with the exception of Oil2Olay. They have all been positive influences and contributors to these boards.
I would suggest NOT approaching PCGS about this action. The banned members wanted PCGS to intervene - and they did. If a free forum becomes more trouble than it is worth, it disappears.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@silverpop said:
high doubt temporary bans exist here, i gather once you are banned it's over for you on this site no second chances
2nd chances or more were given to coinguy1 & Laura S, (Specialist). There may be others that I’m not aware of.
I’m not sure official second chances are given. No one seems to ever get their previous username back. There are 3 active, prolific posters both prior and after their ban I’m aware of. All use new names.
They gave them in past 100 % positive
Is there an example where someone got their user reinstated? Specialist joined on Sept 22, 2017 and coinguy1 is still banned.
Yes myself no prior or current alts
Hmm, maybe a few of the others could have done the same to link to their previous posts.
Everyone needs to leave Don Willis alone. The banned members joined in a lynch mob mentality, and if you believe what they posted, were driving Don crazy with private messages to get the dude banned. They started threads about the guy also encouraging others to flag and report him. (Assuming it is a him?)
Two of the now banned members are in their 60's and 70's. Should they not know better than this? They are older than Don and yet bugging him to ban people? He has a company to run!
@jmlanzaf said:
I would suggest NOT approaching PCGS about this action. The banned members wanted PCGS to intervene - and they did. If a free forum becomes more trouble than it is worth, it disappears.
@jmlanzaf said:
I would suggest NOT approaching PCGS about this action. The banned members wanted PCGS to intervene - and they did. If a free forum becomes more trouble than it is worth, it disappears.
Talk about, "be careful what you wish for"!
LOL
And I ditto your previous comment. People should leave this alone for now.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@mvs7 said:
Wow. Well I, for one, am looking forward to the first posts from Jwitten2 and Insider 3.
If they are allowed back, they could get their original users reinstated. See the post by @MANOFCOINS above.
Yeah, I was trying to be more tongue in cheek assuming they weren't let back. In full disclosure, I just like the number 7, and I was not actually banned six previous times under user names mvs through mvs6.
Comments
This may a silly thing to put forward, but I wonder if some of this has to do with the flagging of some coin markets now. That is, if the markets were roaring right now, most of us would be posting about that and the attendant excitement.
Interesting, slightly shocking turn of events. If nothing else, I think this emphasizes the merits of simply ignoring posts or posters rather than going after them.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Does anyone else find the "Please Carry On" odd?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Maybe. In the last couple of months, there have been fewer substantive coin discussions and more just chit chat...oh, and rare doubled die errors.
But, honestly, I think more of it is the sense of ownership that a few people had taken over the Forum. They just couldn't NOT engage O2O and others. I'm sometimes guilty of trying too hard to reason with O2O and others, but I never got into a flame war with them.
With Keets disappearance as well, things are going to be very different around here for a while.
Poor @Insider2. This Forum really meant a lot to him...maybe too much.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I appreciate the knowledge contributed by Insider2. I see his red badge of courage. Don't mean nothin! Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW
Geeze, I just got here.
The dust has settled, everyone is still alive, coins is the word. CU is the place to learn and share everything. I am grateful for my life today. Peace Roy, who is also in PA.
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW
This was beyond trolling. Oil2Olay was actively harassing people. They got sick & tired of it and called him out on it. They are human after all. If there was active moderation it wouldn't have gotten to that point.
I mostly agree, but the dynamic was more complex. O2O was posting nonsense early, but it wasn't harassment. Then the flag/disagree war started. Our dearly loved and at least temporarily departed friends would flag him and he would retaliate by leaving HUNDREDS of disagrees. Then they responded by continuing to poke and prod him with flags and the war escalated.
Very early in O2O's tenure here, I had a long frustrating exchange with him that became somewhat heated. But I never flagged him and he never disagreed with me - at least not en masse. And even though I weighed in on some of the more recent threads, gently, he never responded to me or hit me with disagrees.
I think it takes two sides to have a war, even a flame war. And, while I think the carnage could have been limited to O2O - I mean, 1000 disagrees? really? - the other people involved just refused to ignore O2O and I think that's what PCGS responded to.
Hopefully, they are just temporarily suspended.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I know I am just repeating what others have said, but I hope the bans are temporary, the members banned contribute a lot to the forum community. This is a very unfortunate situation that just got way out of hand.
Tom,
How did you tell?
Revised post - I see it now.
This is too bad. Hopefully temporary.
Might I suggest we leave Mr. Willis out of these threads? The thought occurred to me yesterday while this fiasco was going on, that we might indeed lose the forum for good. This is the second time in recent history he has had to intervene. I would guess pulling the plug is one of his options.
popforum.space/index.php
There is an unmoderated coin forum here.
I hope it's temporary as well, because I don't like the idea of missing out on a visual fix of some of the most beautiful gorgeous striking Buffalos I've ever seen, and a few others contributions as well
Steve
Howabout those Dallas Cowboys helping our Texans out. Good thing I was watching football all weekend, don't even know what transpired, surely would have found my 2c's.
Wow... I guess I missed the major action.... I am happy about that....Hope to see the good guys back when the dust clears... Cheers, RickO
Gosh. A bomb used to kill a flea. I am truly saddened with the collateral damage. I will miss several of the banned members.
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
And a quality one at that!
My little suggestion is to write the administrator and say who the main culprit was and ask that they reinstate the rest.
FWIW, I'm going to do that right now.
I see a few mentioning temporary bans. Is that a thing here?
high doubt temporary bans exist here, i gather once you are banned it's over for you on this site no second chances
don't count your chickens before they're hatched
I go to bed for a few hours sleep and I miss all the action.
IMHO one of those posters deserved to be banned a long time ago, but not the others.
The sad thing is, the real culprit will be back in no time under an alt.
We have lost a wealth of important numismatic knowledge because of a troll. :'(
2nd chances or more were given to coinguy1 & Laura S, (Specialist). There may be others that I’m not aware of.
This wouldn't happen without those bottom of post options.
I guess "Like" has been tested enough by Facebook to not cause too many problems.
But a ....DISAGREE.....sheeze.... How can you disagree without posting your opposite opinion?
the easy peasy little clicks at the bottom can prove too much to handle for some people.
???
hey has anyone heard from @FSF?
miss his one worder's already
Maybe, maybe not. The old platform may not have supported it. I'll again invoke phpBB features and say that the concept of being "put in time-out" for a specific amount of time or until a certain date exists there, so it is probably supported here as well. Whether the admins use it or not is a different question.
Also, a weekend mass-bamming might be a quick "load them all in the wagon and sort it out in booking" solution to a problem that needs more looking into. From where I sit, the actual solution should be unbamming most and getting rid of the "disagree" button, as it has only caused these forums unnecessary strife.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
+1,
Wow, go away for a day or two and the board blew up...
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
then PM PCGS and let them know of your ideas for improving the forum and see where that goes
who knows they maybe willing to consider those ideas or maybe keep the current forum as is
never hurts to try
don't count your chickens before they're hatched
I fear that some banned members may be allowed back and choose not to return.
I’m not sure official second chances are given. No one ever seems to get their previous username back. There are 3 active, prolific posters both prior and after their ban I’m aware of. All use new names.
Antagonist: a person who actively opposes or is hostile to someone or something; an adversary.
There have been a slew of these over the years that like Laura dissipated into the wind.
One thing is for sure and that is NOTHING is for sure. Good members with sometimes "aggressive" opinions and views got caught up in this mess.
They got goaded enough to strike back.
Sad.
Roger did it right one time when another member tried to goad him into an argument. He just didn't reply. Believe me that took a lot. It stopped.
Carry on.
Pete
Shaking my head no.
I am sad now since my mentors are
Agreed. Ignore the gnats and carry on.
Is there an example where someone got their user reinstated? Specialist joined on Sept 22, 2017 and coinguy1 is still banned.
Phew, looks like I can still post
Latin American Collection
I have an email from a CU friend that was targeted by Oil2Olay last month. His Like vs Disagrees at the time were 150 Likes to 15 Disagrees. After logging out and logging in hours later he found is Disagrees had jumped to 100.......alll from this Oil2Olay guy. Oil2Olay had searched the forum for any old post my friend had made and hit the disagree button.
My friend contacted the forum monitor and after investigating his Disagrees were bumped back to 15. This should show the moderators that Oil2Olay has a history of harassment and contributed nothing to these boards but negativity and disruption.
Please PCGS, reinstate all banned members from this incident with the exception of Oil2Olay. They have all been positive influences and contributors to these boards.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
I would suggest NOT approaching PCGS about this action. The banned members wanted PCGS to intervene - and they did. If a free forum becomes more trouble than it is worth, it disappears.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Hmm, maybe a few of the others could have done the same to link to their previous posts.
Everyone needs to leave Don Willis alone. The banned members joined in a lynch mob mentality, and if you believe what they posted, were driving Don crazy with private messages to get the dude banned. They started threads about the guy also encouraging others to flag and report him. (Assuming it is a him?)
Two of the now banned members are in their 60's and 70's. Should they not know better than this? They are older than Don and yet bugging him to ban people? He has a company to run!
Talk about, "be careful what you wish for"!
LOL
And I ditto your previous comment. People should leave this alone for now.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Wow. Well I, for one, am looking forward to the first posts from Jwitten2 and Insider 3.
This disappoints me.
This thread probably won't stick around long either.
Collector, occasional seller
If they are allowed back, they could get their original users reinstated. See the post by @MANOFCOINS above.
I'm sorry to hear of this situation. I'm kind of new to this and really enjoy the information people are so good to provide.
Yeah, I was trying to be more tongue in cheek assuming they weren't let back. In full disclosure, I just like the number 7, and I was not actually banned six previous times under user names mvs through mvs6.
Guess we all probably need a reminder now and then.
Disagreeing isn't the problem. It's HOW you disagree that gets you in trouble.
Be good humans.