How has the flood of "CC" Morgan Dollar fakes affected the market for the real coins?
291fifth
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What are your thoughts on this?
All glory is fleeting.
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No effect at all.
bob
I disagree with the premise that counterfeits dilute the values of authentic pieces. If anything, it should raise prices on authentic pieces if the market is flooded with counterfeits to any reasonable extent. People will start spending more on verified authentic examples for piece of mind imo.
Hmmmm, good thought there, but CC's are just so common in themselves.....maybe someday.
bob
I am happy I collected my CC set before the flood of fakes.... years before... Cheers, RickO
Please have asteroids come down from the universe and smash all these counterfeit factories. They ARE effecting the hobby as new collectors will shy away from Fake coins and worse Fake slabs holders.
100% Positive BST transactions
School me! Were the mintages that much smaller on CC dollars to justify the added expense? With the GSA hoard released, it seems the market was flooded with previous rarities, and with so many uncirculated examples Sold, how do the prices remain so high?
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
My coin of choice the CC mintmark. I'm just careful and I buy from a dealer I trust.
It may have had a negative effect on the market for raw coins.
Many collectors are awed by anything with a "CC" mintmark. It evokes the old west. They buy "CC" coins without regard to their rarity. They just want more and more of them. It really makes no sense since many "CC" coins are actually quite common.
While the original mintages don't tell the whole story, the Carson City Mint coined a total of 13,683,000 Morgan dollars over the course of thirteen separate years. Only twice did Morgan Dollar production exceed 2,000,000 coins (and those two years were underrepresented in the GSA/Treasury holdings).
In comparison, the Philadelphia Mint made 14,000,000+ Morgan Dollars within a single year in at least eight separate years (I chose not to include 1921). I didn't try to evaluate the production at San Francisco or New Orleans, but there were many years in which 8,000,000+ Morgan Dollars were produced in a single year.
I was recently told that the Carson City Mint made 56,000,000 coins during its existence.
I consider it a good day when a genuine "CC" mintmarked coin comes my way.
How am I affected:
CC Morgans are the only coins, besides commonly faked key dates, that I would hesitate to buy raw.
IMO, at the moment they have no effect on a knowledgeable collector. The folks who they harm don't buy coins at shows or coin shops so it is no loss to anyone. In the future, as the fakes improve, they will be in the numismatic market.
For Pcgs examples demand remains strong. I retail many both at shows and online.
Not really sure how it affects the hobby, I do know that this is counterfeit, no question, no doubt, not a leg to stand on. Seller refuses to pull the listing and Ebay doesn't give a F!@#
https://www.ebay.com/itm/263981517099?ul_noapp=true
There are just as many fakes of other Mints
Check out this little gem, seller never got back to me and explained to Ebay in great detail why it's counterfeit. Not only did I explain but supplied them with images of a genuine 92CC. The date screams CF, plus the overall appearance slapped me in the face. WTF are they not seeing? My gut tells me they're fully aware of the counterfeits and simply don't give a damn about the buyer or the hobby, it's all about bottom line profits. When I report a CF it's a slam dunk, no doubt, no question, no argument report.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1892CC-Morgan-Silver-Dollar/292764856998?hash=item442a2532a6:g:X2sAAOSwjLtbZSwH
@morgansforever BTW, that seller is not me!
In the first two pages of feedback, my namesake has only one other coin sale (common wheat cents)!
Just realized his handle is dugan1. Do your part and report both of these slam dunk counterfeits.
The 1889 and 1992 CC illustrated earlier are not even state of the art counterfeits. Wouldn't you like to know just who bids on stuff like this? Has the internet created an entirely new group of collectors who exist only online?
@morgansforever Since the one horse's patootie fellow made it personal, I have reported both as requested!
It baffles me that with so much info out there on the web that these are bid up. Yes, I would like to meet the thousands who purchase these every year.
It's a good fight, one CF at a time.
You are correct. And re-reading what I wrote, I feel that I expressed my intended idea poorly. Your point is well taken. Thank you.
The response to your comment is that those guys don't look at the information that is out there. In fact they militantly refuse to get involved with the educational aspects of this hobby. As a collector who has tried to educate these "low information collectors," I can tell you that is true.
I have no problem buying a raw CC dollar as long as I can hold it, and the slabbed pieces have had someone else hold them. I have not seen or HELD a CC dollar that could get by me. That may change in the future, but for now, no. Wait till they counterfeit GSA holders - people will buy those without any hesitation.
I suppose it would hurt the circulated market more that the MS market. There is just something about the crisp details of an authentic Morgan that are hard to duplicate, but once it’s been circulated, it gets tougher to see the finer points of the die indicators.
<<< Another estate hoard find >>>
Yea, the estate hoard from Alibaba.
The seller of the 92CC has ended it, after I sent images of a genuine piece and an explanation. One CF at a time
I agree: there is a whole new group of on line collectors and that's not just coins. I used EBay when it first started and got some really good deals but I let it for many years. Now I wouldn't buy a raw coin if my sister sold it.