1958 Franklin Half PCGS 67+FBL with wild color....Legend Auction tonight....Currently Bid $105,00...

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  • SanctionII
    SanctionII Posts: 13,190 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Amazing and confusing,........... at the same time.

    A beautiful toned common date Franklin that has multiple hits, dings, etc.

    If this coin was raw instead of stabbed would it sell for more than a few hundred dollars?

    The interesting thing about this sale is that a hard working collector could probably find an attractively toned example of this coin in the same condition looking through double mint sets and purchase the entire set for less than a grand.

    Registry set competition, plastic, pretty toning and 67÷ on the paper insert created a high ssle price.

    Further, I wonder if the sale price for the coin would have been lower if Legend had not been involved in the sale.

  • georgiacop50
    georgiacop50 Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭✭
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    That is questionable toning to me. Especially in light of how similar the obv tone is to the 1956 David linked above.

  • ilikemonsters
    ilikemonsters Posts: 767 ✭✭✭✭
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    @mkman123 said:
    I'm gonna guess Auroraborealis will show this coin to us soon?

    While I did show him the coin the night before, He didn’t show an interest in it, and thus was when $38k was the bid.

  • jedm
    jedm Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 27, 2018 7:20AM
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    Yowza! Congrats to the new owner and the seller. I hope the new owner enjoys the coin as much as I do some of my favorites, and that the seller is not going to miss it.

  • topstuf
    topstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I'm picturing in my mind a complete Dansco full of those. :D

  • Hydrant
    Hydrant Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I pulled a 2014 Quarter out of the washing machine last Sunday night. The color on the obverse is very similar to the color on that 1958 half dollar. Should I submit my quarter for grading? We use Sun Triple Clean detergent.

  • BillJones
    BillJones Posts: 35,938 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @topstuf said:
    I'm picturing in my mind a complete Dansco full of those. :D

    If you put that in a Dansco, there is a chance that it could turn on you, and then you would really up the creek.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • asheland
    asheland Posts: 24,548 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Crazy stuff! :o

    My YouTube Channel

  • oih82w8
    oih82w8 Posts: 13,212 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Wowsers! A little late for the bidding...but that should go without saying. He is a stunner, but...wowsers!

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

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  • johnny9434
    johnny9434 Posts: 34,112 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    i like the reverse better then the obverse. jmo

  • Gazes
    Gazes Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Most people on this thread believe the amount paid for this coin makes no sense. Here is the contrary argument (not even sure I agree with it but it is worth saying)

    First, anyone who writes a check for $100,000 plus put some thought into this. With that much money being spent, my hunch is there is more of a basis for the price than us "bystanders" realize.

    Second, I don't understand the premiums paid for crazy colored toners. I never have. I have seen prices paid for Morgans and other silver coins that made no sense to me. Then those same coins would later fetch prices far in excess of the prices previously paid! In other words, this coin could turn out to be the finest toned Franklin period and there is only one----and down the road this price may seem cheap.

    Also, what if the buyer is putting together the greatest toned set of Franklin's? When it is completed, anchored by this coin, the collection is sold at auction---maybe each coin fetches record money in part because this coin is anchors the finest toned Franklin set ever.

    Again, I don't collect Franklins or toned coins, but my only point is that we should not be so quick to dismiss this buyer as being buried or wasting money.

  • SanctionII
    SanctionII Posts: 13,190 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I looked at the coin on Coin Facts. It shows up as graded 67+. The photo of the coin graded a 66+ is no longer on Coin Facts.

    I looked at an enlarged version of the Coin Facts photo of the coin. I am very surprised that with the large number of dings and marks on both sides of the coin that it was graded 67+ (and previously a 66+). The coin clearly received the high grades of 66+ and 67+ solely because of the vibrant toning.

    Another 1958 P Franklin shown in Coin Facts that grades 67 that does not have multicolored toning shows obverse and reverse surfaces that are very clean, with minimal marks and dings. It is a very attractive coin, but it does not have the monster toning.

    Best of luck to the bidder who won the 67+ monster toner. Maybe the bidder will start a trend where collecting Franklins becomes a "must do" thing for those who want to be at the forefront of societal evolution.

    In fact, wouldn't it be a hoot to find out that the bidder who won this 58 Franklin is non other than Kim Kardashian. She could promote coin collecting to her social media followers and the hobby could immediately see an infusion of millions of new collectors :)

  • Bochiman
    Bochiman Posts: 25,790 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @BillJones said:

    @MrEureka said:

    @BillJones said:
    If the hammer price was $110,000, that means the buyer paid $129,250 with the buyers' fee. Why hasn't anyone brought that up?

    That post did not deserve a sneering response. Maybe $19,250 doesn't seem like much money to some people, but it does to me.

    That much money means a lot to me as well....heck, for some folks willing to take a chance, it could probably buy a whole block of houses in Detroit!!!

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • Bigbuck1975
    Bigbuck1975 Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Crazy part is I saw a video of it in a 66 holder. Guy sold it and got it into a 66+ holder, now it’s a 67+, expensive plastic for sure!!

  • Hydrant
    Hydrant Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2018 1:01AM
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    @Gazes said:
    Most people on this thread believe the amount paid for this coin makes no sense.

    Most of the people in my immediate family....ah,...actually all of the people in my immediate family think what I pay for ANY coin makes no sense. And you know what? I hate to admit it but they're probably right. In fact they are most certainly right. But I don't care. And the lovely Mrs. Hydrant doesn't care either. She says whatever makes me happy...... "Go for it." I'm one lucky guy!

    P.S. It's midnight. Just got home from the Rams vs. Vikings game. Best football game that I have EVER been to. Oh, Baby! What a blast!!!

  • specialist
    specialist Posts: 956 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Yes, the price is crazy-BUT in the rare air of that stuff-the longer people hold them the more of a chance they DO make real money, not just a marginal profit. And no, you do not have to hold it 20 years. I have seen this time and time again over my 40 years career.

    For the record, unless you had the coin in your hand and put a glass to it, do NOT make any comments based upon pics. Things that look like cuts/scrapes may be toning. I looked at this coin hard, I LOVED it-I have no ownership stake or any relation top the coin.

    This coin is like a wild Northern Lights Morgan. It about the COLORS!!!! And the colors glowed in the dark.

    Congrats to the new owner. That is a great coin.

  • Catbert
    Catbert Posts: 8,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Sorry. I don’t see a Franklin winning the buy and hold lottery @specialist

    Seated Half Society member #38

    "She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
    running like a water color in the rain...."
  • ilikemonsters
    ilikemonsters Posts: 767 ✭✭✭✭
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    @specialist said:
    Yes, the price is crazy-BUT in the rare air of that stuff-the longer people hold them the more of a chance they DO make real money, not just a marginal profit. And no, you do not have to hold it 20 years. I have seen this time and time again over my 40 years career.

    For the record, unless you had the coin in your hand and put a glass to it, do NOT make any comments based upon pics. Things that look like cuts/scrapes may be toning. I looked at this coin hard, I LOVED it-I have no ownership stake or any relation top the coin.

    This coin is like a wild Northern Lights Morgan. It about the COLORS!!!! And the colors glowed in the dark.

    Congrats to the new owner. That is a great coin.

    For what it's worth, any scrapes/cuts/marks which are on the coin, the toning very well hides/covers all and any marks visible on the coin. I was offered this coin previously when it was in a lower graded holder, and I passed because I thought the price was thru the roof. I never imagined this would sell for six-figures. But am glad I was proven wrong, and I congratulate both the seller, and buyer. Also, congratulations to you Laura on conducting the sale with some record-breaking prices, such as this one.

  • messydesk
    messydesk Posts: 20,829 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    It seems like the grade has the toning premium "priced" into it already, but the bidding doesn't think it does.

    John
    Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
  • BryceM
    BryceM Posts: 11,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @messydesk said:

    @jcping said:
    How can this coin get CACed?

    JA will support his MS67FBL bid for it, which is probably about $2,500. I agree with him.

    A rather astute observation.

  • ARCO
    ARCO Posts: 4,475 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    As long as the buyer is comfortable with the price and enjoys the coin, then all is good. We are all going to dust anyway, what is $100k + in the vast stretch of the cosmos? :)

  • SkyMan
    SkyMan Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I would agree with @georgiacop50 's comments about this coin, particularly the serious concerns that this may be AT.

    Toned Franklins

    U.S. Type Set
  • Baley
    Baley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @SkyMan said:
    I would agree with @georgiacop50 's comments about this coin, particularly the serious concerns that this may be AT.

    They said it was MA, and He agreed. Peeled or cracked out, it's just another QT, isn't it?

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • Raybo
    Raybo Posts: 5,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I'm still amazed by the bid, I mean REALLY?

  • cnncoins
    cnncoins Posts: 414 ✭✭✭✭
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    I've seen literally millions of coins over the years, and this coin looks completely natural to me. If someone can tone a coin like that, I'm sure we would have seen several more in holders over the last few years. There is no way I could ever call this coin AT.

  • MrEureka
    MrEureka Posts: 24,781 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @AllCoinsRule said:

    What seems to have been a two tier market the last 6 years I think has basically been a bull market in disguise and even is now in a bubble. If you take all the coins out of their current holders and put them back in their 2012 holders at 2012 prices, they're mostly worth much more now across the board. The problem is most of the gains have just gone to the crackout dealers and tpgs. The average collector has missed out. And the question now is, when will the bubble pop.

    Sounds like you have a misconception about how many coins are participating in the "bull market bubble" you describe. In reality, 99.9% of the coins are not good enough to participate, even if they upgraded.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • specialist
    specialist Posts: 956 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I totally agree with CNN. This is a completely ORIGINALLY envelope toned coin. Why must people talk about things they do not know? I saw the coin in person.

    Oh yeah, I know a little bit about toning. And so does PCGS and JA!! And maybe CNN ( :o )

  • koynekwest
    koynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @AllCoinsRule said:
    I was just about to start a thread about this coin but see there already is one. I believe this is a record for any regular issue 1934-date coin. I thought the 1944 Walker at $109K would live on for quite a long time. Nope. Yep, this 1958 was even in a lower grade holder. Pretty darn unfair if the person who had it as a 66+fbl (or 66fbl I hear) sold it in that holder. Pretty darn unfair.

    What seems to have been a two tier market the last 6 years I think has basically been a bull market in disguise and even is now in a bubble. If you take all the coins out of their current holders and put them back in their 2012 holders at 2012 prices, they're mostly worth much more now across the board. The problem is most of the gains have just gone to the crackout dealers and tpgs. The average collector has missed out. And the question now is, when will the bubble pop.

    I know the person who originally had this coin in a 66 FBL slab. And I agree-pretty darn unfair.

  • U1chicago
    U1chicago Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @koynekwest said:

    @AllCoinsRule said:
    I was just about to start a thread about this coin but see there already is one. I believe this is a record for any regular issue 1934-date coin. I thought the 1944 Walker at $109K would live on for quite a long time. Nope. Yep, this 1958 was even in a lower grade holder. Pretty darn unfair if the person who had it as a 66+fbl (or 66fbl I hear) sold it in that holder. Pretty darn unfair.

    What seems to have been a two tier market the last 6 years I think has basically been a bull market in disguise and even is now in a bubble. If you take all the coins out of their current holders and put them back in their 2012 holders at 2012 prices, they're mostly worth much more now across the board. The problem is most of the gains have just gone to the crackout dealers and tpgs. The average collector has missed out. And the question now is, when will the bubble pop.

    I know the person who originally had this coin in a 66 FBL slab. And I agree-pretty darn unfair.

    Anyone recall the asking price when the coin was being shopped as a 66 or a 66+? A few mentioned it was high, but what was high when it was in the previous holder?

  • Insider2
    Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @koynekwest said: "I know the person who originally had this coin in a 66 FBL slab. And I agree-pretty darn unfair.

    You should feel sorry for me too. It is UNFAIR. I think I've left money on the table all my life and no one made me take the price or told me to ask for more! A happy seller and a happy buyer make a good transaction. :)

  • EastonCollection
    EastonCollection Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    for the price that 1958 Franklin sold for, I much rather have a Bust dime, quarter or half in gem. Hey wait, I could get all 3 of them for the price the Franklin sold for! Go figure!

    Easton Collection
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    edited September 29, 2018 7:49PM
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    This content has been removed.
  • BryceM
    BryceM Posts: 11,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Looking in through the window, not understanding what I’m looking at.....

  • koynekwest
    koynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I think the gradeflation is what's unfair. I've urged the original buyer of the coin to join and participate in this forum but so far no luck. He's one of the leading VAM experts in the country and he knows what he's doing as far as other varieties go, too. I will continue to try and get him to join and post here. We'll see what happens.

  • Rexford
    Rexford Posts: 1,367 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2018 9:23PM
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    @cnncoins said:
    I've seen literally millions of coins over the years, and this coin looks completely natural to me. If someone can tone a coin like that, I'm sure we would have seen several more in holders over the last few years. There is no way I could ever call this coin AT.

    There are plenty of coins like this one in holders. I'm pretty sure it's artificial toning via some sort of liquid. Look at the discolored dots all over the surface and the way the colors completely ignore the topography of the devices, climbing over them as if painted on. Look at the suspicious uniformity of the yellow on the reverse over the surfaces. Look at the neon colors that are also indicative of artificiality. All of this, and especially the discolored dots, screams AT (to me).

    Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
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  • Hallco
    Hallco Posts: 3,727 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2018 9:37PM
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    @koynekwest said:

    He's one of the leading VAM experts in the country.

    Now I REALLY want to know who it is you are talking about! :)

  • tradedollarnut
    tradedollarnut Posts: 20,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The grade has very little to do with the value of this coin...so I can’t get on board with the unfair claim

    Early Dollar Set
  • Ronyahski
    Ronyahski Posts: 3,120 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Rexford said:

    @cnncoins said:
    I've seen literally millions of coins over the years, and this coin looks completely natural to me. If someone can tone a coin like that, I'm sure we would have seen several more in holders over the last few years. There is no way I could ever call this coin AT.

    There are plenty of coins like this one in holders. I'm pretty sure it's artificial toning via some sort of liquid. Look at the discolored dots all over the surface and the way the colors completely ignore the topography of the devices, climbing over them as if painted on. Look at the suspicious uniformity of the yellow on the reverse over the surfaces. Look at the neon colors that are also indicative of artificiality. All of this, and especially the discolored dots, screams AT (to me).

    Dots are not an indication of AT. Uniformity of yellow is not an indication of AT, just the opposite. The colors are not ignoring the topography of the devices, just the opposite. The colors are not neon, they all naturally occur within the cycles of thin film interference on silver coins.

    Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
  • MrEureka
    MrEureka Posts: 24,781 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @tradedollarnut said:
    The grade has very little to do with the value of this coin...so I can’t get on board with the unfair claim

    Besides, it's a fair game. Anyone can submit any coin and take a shot. Same as in a casino. It's fair if everyone gets to sit down at the table. Doesn't mean there won't be winners and losers.

    On the other hand, it is unfortunate that grading is not more consistent. But that's a completely different issue.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • batumi
    batumi Posts: 936 ✭✭✭✭
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    @AllCoinsRule said:
    I was just about to start a thread about this coin but see there already is one. I believe this is a record for any regular issue 1934-date coin. I thought the 1944 Walker at $109K would live on for quite a long time. Nope. Yep, this 1958 was even in a lower grade holder. Pretty darn unfair if the person who had it as a 66+fbl (or 66fbl I hear) sold it in that holder. Pretty darn unfair.

    What seems to have been a two tier market the last 6 years I think has basically been a bull market in disguise and even is now in a bubble. If you take all the coins out of their current holders and put them back in their 2012 holders at 2012 prices, they're mostly worth much more now across the board. The problem is most of the gains have just gone to the crackout dealers and tpgs. The average collector has missed out. And the question now is, when will the bubble pop.

    In the past year, I bid on four really nice mid series WLH's in MS 67 that were in older holders aggressively, which for me is ten maybe twenty percent over while playing the internet. Of the four, I located two which I missed in new 67+ holders for over four times the prices they sold for in recent auctions. I am guessing the one that I did win, is the only one that remains in its old holder!

  • Insider2
    Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    No judgment here but I think we all can guess what's going on as time passes. It's not bad and not good. Stuff happens. I say, "Rde the wave, make the money."

    I've had to overpay dearly for every "monster coin" I've ever bought. $2500 was the highest going rate for any of my "monsters" back then. LOL. Now, I'm just a bystander in awe. Therefore, the price of many coins today (1958 50c) does not compute.

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