Why do all of these raw, polished, blatantly tampered with Morgans sell for so much on Ebay?
Hallco
Posts: 3,679 ✭✭✭✭✭
I just looked at over 600 listings(yes, I'm bored tonight). I removed all the tpgs and lower grades in my search and 95% or more of them have bids several dollars over silver spot? 
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Even cull Morgan's tend to command a small premium over melt. The simple answer is they are popular.
I guess there is just something about silver dollars that brings out the stupidness in some people.
Morgan dollars are a series where 'there's an a$$ for every seat.'
What you are seeing are actions of the bulk of raw, unpolished, blatantly foolish, emotionally tampered with people. Most human activities can be described with a simple "bell curve" distribution -- and half of that population is below the mean. Coin collectors are likely compressed above the mean, and typical ebayers are likely 1/2 a standard deviation below. (No data --- just a loose observation.)
Want to play TIC TAC DOE?
Well IMHO the few dollars over spot are pretty inexpensive.
I would say if you wrapped all the reasons up and put a bow on it (not a bow tie fantastic) it would be called inexperience.
Edited to add, sorta like when a young man walks through a junkyard and says, oh my god because he sees potential in all those beautiful cars. Years later the same man going through the junkyard says, oh my god because he sees a waste of money in all those ugly cars. Experience.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Disagree. There is a Greysheet bulk price for them. That is the market value. Just because you think they should sell for spot target than $2 over spot is irrelevant.
Why do silver eagles which are nothing but bullion sell for $2 to $3 over spot? Inexperience?
Why does 90% silver trade for melt? It should be back of melt, like sterling silver, because of refining costs to recover. Inexperience?
The market is far more experienced than you or I alone
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I collect Morgan dollars but it has been a very long time since I bought one off Ebay. Poor quality and high prices put an end to my buying.
It’s no surprise to me.
Most of market place looking for stuff close to melt. If BV goes way up they win big time. These people aren’t as stupud as u think but I would advise them get nice BU ASW or add inexpensive slabbed MS 63-64 Morgan and Peace Dollars to portfolio vs cleaned messed with junk. In my view buying nice coins close to BV is part of what I call the real coin market.
The supposedly advanced collector who paid way over bid for some toned big ticket coin bc it has a sticker has an item that will become more tarnished over time = big loss.
Slabbed Classic Commens in $100-$250 range super deal right now I sell a lot of these. This is another popular market segment.
I thought the original post asked about polished blatantly tampered with Morgans? I never said I think they should sell for spot target than $2 over spot.
My guess about your question of the silver eagles is the eagles are newly minted and not polished and blatantly tampered with. Something I think an experienced buyer would know.
As for the 90% or sterling, I see plenty of junk sterling flatware go through auctions back of melt. Something I think an experienced buyer would know.
As for experience, I didn't claim to be more experienced than the market.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Bling is the thing. White lustrous, dipped and stickered. Then comes the reasonable facsimile.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Many collectors of this type of junk are internet only trained. They can't grade and they can't spot damage or alterations. Depending on what they have read (everything you read on the internet is true, right?) their view of values may be unrealistic and distorted. It is fairly certain they haven't visited the PCGS site.
I am always surprised at what polished up Morgans trade for. As mentioned it is inexperienced collectors or folks who don't want to realize the truth about what they are buying. A long time ago I watched an episode of the show 'Hoarders' and there was an older man who had spent tens of thousands of his long time girlfriends money buying costume jewelry that he kept in briefcases etc. I think deep down inside he knew it was fake but on the surface it looked like he had a vast treasure of gold, silver and jewels. He was given the choice by his girlfriend...either the jewelry or me and he sadly took the jewelry.
K
If you are sitting in your home perusing Ebay and you want to buy some cool coins what do you do? Do you pay a bit more of a premium to buy a coin as you sit in your bathrobe, snacking on cashews, or do you visit a few dozen shows / coin shops driving all over tarnation, spending multiples of time trying to find a coin that is priced as it "should" be?
When I get the coin itch, I just like to satisfy it.
I hear ya
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
The original post referred to polished Morgans selling for "several dollars" over spot. That IS THE CORRECT MARKET PRICE for cull dollars. No problem circ coins have a Greysheet bid that is closer to $20 each. The market price for CULL Morgans, which means damaged, polished, etc. has always been a couple dollars over spot. DEALERS pay over spot for CULL Morgans (although probably not much over in the current silver climate).
Many (most) of those eBay sales are NOT people who don't know any better. It is people who know exactly what they are doing.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Again, they may know exactly what they are doing and paid exactly the correct price. Cull Morgans wholesale for over spot. Without specific examples, the OP's "a few dollars over melt" is exactly what polished Morgans should sell for. Now, if they are 2x spot, then you have people who may not know what they are doing.
I will buy all the polished Morgans that anyone on this board wants to sell for OVER MELT. PM me.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The attitude on this thread is exactly why coins are going to follow stamps into the abyss.
Stamp collecting suffered from many things, but one of them was the arrogance of the old collectors who constantly told every newbie that they were doing it wrong: collecting the wrong thing, mounting wrong, grading wrong, etc. Now those same old collectors are mad that there are no newbies to buy their accumulations.
There was not one auction link provided. The OP said "few dollars" over melt. And everyone but me ascribes that to morons who don't know what they are doing. The value of cull Morgans IS OVER MELT, always has been. Might be closer now than it's been in a while, but it is still over melt. So someone paying $13 or $14 for a polished Morgan isn't a moron or inexperienced or unschooled, it's just someone stacking who prefers to stack Morgans to Washington quarters or Silver eagles or maple leafs...
Now, if you have a link of someone buying a polished, holed 1921 Morgan for $25...well, then you've found an inexperienced newbie who doesn't understand the coin market. But if the same coin is selling for $12, that's just someone who prefers to stack Morgans because they are "cool" rather than boring old silver eagles.
In my ever humble opinion, of course.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
NOTE: IGNORANCE is a better answer than inexperience. I'll bet the majority of buyers on Ebay have never heard of the Graysheet! Furthermore, most prefer shiny, polished coins over original ones - ignorance. I have more experience than 90% of the CU members dealing with the inexperienced and ignorant dealers/collectors. I get to teach them with each interaction!
For that reason alone, I disagree 100% with your opinion: "Many (most) of those eBay sales are NOT people who don't know any better. It is people who know exactly what they are doing."
I'm shocked that you think other people are ignorant.
The reason I said what I said is that I do 3,000 to 4,000 transactions PER YEAR on eBay. I get emails from people all the time trying to buy my dollars at dealer wholesale. There are a lot of people who do this on eBay. I know because they bother me.
The $20 cull coins are a little expensive. With free shipping, if you have no coin store or coin shows near you, it's not the worst way to buy coins.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I resemble that comment, I guess include me in the seat another poster described. I collect only Morgan dollars now. I do have quite a bit of silver bullion, however, decided long ago that was a really poor investment. Pay a premium to buy it, then pay a premium to sell it. On my Morgan dollars I will admit I only buy graded coins and have not purchased a raw silver dollar in many years. Too many problem coins out there for me. But I admit to being stupid in some of my purchases even with graded coins. However, if I was to only purchase coins I would never lose money on, I would buy a roll of dimes at the bank. Then spend them quickly.
The main thing that would concern me would be the addition of a few Chinese clunkers thrown into the mix. It doesn’t take many of those to sour a bullion based deal since the Chinese counterfeits don’t contain silver.
Thanks for all of the opinions everyone. I didn't mean to start a thread that would cause strife. I just think it's odd that problem free coins sometimes have trouble even getting a fair amount and others that are pretty obviously altered in one way or another have multiple bidders. I guess an 83-CC Morgan that has been brutalized by someone to make look "new" again... is still an 83-CC. Just because of that fact doesn't mean I have to like it, right?
its ebay, who the heck knows
Keep in mind that there may be ebay bucks promos out which will serve to inflate prices a bit.
Ya why does %925. sell for less then 90%?
Hoard the keys.
I bet it doesn't in Europe.
It's the "numismatic premium". I prefer, simply, "market price". In the end, the best way to go broke is to think you know better than the market.
Another interesting question: why is 90% coin priced in $ per $Face Value? Why not $ per pound or $ per ounce? It would be much easier to weigh the coins than count the coins. And the weight would give you a much better idea of the actual silver value, especially if there are a lot of slicks thrown in.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@jmlanzaf said: "I'm shocked that you think other people are ignorant.
"
Your 'wink" appears that you may agree with my statement. UNFORTUNATELY, I'll bet that many folks will not understand your humor. Additionally, in my experience, the number of coins someone buys or sells anywhere does not have any bearing on their numismatic knowledge.
Unfortunately, as you wrote, Ebay or mail order is the only way some folks can buy coins. There is nothing funnier to me than to see two folks bidding up a coin in an auction.
Maybe somebody finally realized FREE SHIPPING don't really exist!
Not to get off subject, but you have to watch out for shill bidders.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Here are links to a few examples of what I was originally talking about. And please do not misunderstand me...I have no issues with anyone selling stuff like this. It is disclosed clearly and blatantly in the item description that these are cleaned and/or polished. Seller is not trying to deceive anyone on what they will be receiving. These all went for quite a bit above the $20 mark.
https://ebay.com/itm/1884-MIRROR-LIKE-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-90-Silver-1-Coin-A116-/192668980542?hash=item2cdbf7553e%3Ag%3AI-UAAOSwy6lbqROs&nma=true&si=aNB7lYrtBP5vfW9v4Jr9W1FBU9Q%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
https://ebay.com/itm/1886-UNCIRCULATED-MIRROR-LIKE-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-90-Silver-1-Coin-A114-/183451898467?hash=item2ab695d263%3Ag%3AY~sAAOSw6utbqRK8&nma=true&si=aNB7lYrtBP5vfW9v4Jr9W1FBU9Q%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
https://ebay.com/itm/1880-UNCIRCULATED-MIRROR-LIKE-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-90-Silver-1-Coin-S101-/401607452667?oid=401605185636
https://ebay.com/itm/1883-UNCIRCULATED-MIRROR-LIKE-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-90-Silver-1-Coin-A104-/183451871807?nordt=true&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l10137
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1887-O-UNCIRCULATED-MIRROR-LIKE-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-90-Silver-1-Coin-A113-/401605185636?nordt=true&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l10137
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1898-UNCIRCULATED-MIRROR-LIKE-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-90-Silver-1-Coin-A111-/192668974066?nordt=true&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l10137
Morgans are my favorite! (NOT!)
I had never seen this type of listing.
Is it possible that the buyers do not read the description? The listing , saying UNC, etc can lead them to bid. It seems to me to be intentionally misleading.
This clown has 35 negs in the past 12 months. Most for cleaned and fake coins. Lots of other complaints too. Yet Ebay still lets this guy operate.
Not all people are experienced collectors. Many are stackers, some are just learning. A couple dollars over melt is cheap tuition. I worry more about those that sink incredible sums into tarnished coins - and yes, resale will be strong for a while, if indeed resold. Coins are a hobby for many, a business for a lot of people here. For the hobbyists, it is fun. Cheers, RickO
True...but 7227 positives in that same time period! Do the math. And like I said, this is not a seller issue(especially in this case). He clearly states that these are cleaned and polished coins. People are buying them and paying more anyway....even for common dates!
You are correct. My error; sorry about that.
There are nice coins on eBay. They are just overpriced. There are a couple of vendors that buy things off of Heritage, then the just throw them up on eBay with their markup. Serial numbers can be used as tracking devices.
As I already said,it looks intentionally misleading to me.
Calling these coins uncirculated is a stretch of semantics.
And the way the seller mentions cleaned and polished appears to be done in a way to make those terms sound positive to someone unknowledgeable.
Does anyone else agree?