Yes,I think it will sell for more than that. At that price, it's only a little better than double scrap.
It appears to have a little color, attesting for, perhaps, a bit of age.
@RogerB said:
It's a counterfeit coin. Buying it simply supports counterfeiters and those other criminals who work with them !
Yes and no. If these were still being made, then it would be supporting the counterfeiter(s), but it is highly doubtful these are still being made. So, these are now merely high-quality numismatic curiosities and forgeries on par with the other modern, generally junkier Chinese type counterfeits of U.S. coins.
If you used the same logic to circulating contemporary counterfeits, say of the 19th century, that is on a different level because those were made for circulation, as opposed to this $20 HR which was used to fool the numismatic market.
Bottom-line, not all counterfeits are equal, and some have more interest, appeal, intrigue and mythology than others.
It is a counterfeit coin. It does not matter when it was made, or by whom, or under what circumstances. It is illegal and anyone cooperating with the crook trying to sell it is equally culpable - and equally reprehensible. Exactly the same as facilitating any other felony !
@RogerB said:
It is a counterfeit coin. It does not matter when it was made, or by whom, or under what circumstances. It is illegal and anyone cooperating with the crook trying to sell it is equally culpable - and equally reprehensible. Exactly the same as facilitating any other felony !
This would pose a problem. I don't see how it can be listed since it's a counterfeit ...and... I don't know how title can pass or payment be enforced on an illegal item.
Oh well. I just thought posting it for educational purposes would be good as we often discuss Omega junk and now you can get some pics for reference.
@RogerB said:
It's a counterfeit coin. Buying it simply supports counterfeiters and those other criminals who work with them !
LOL. I guess all the folks who collect contemporary C/F are supporting all the dead guys who made them long ago.
This particular coin is "historic." AFAIK, most have been destroyed. At a show this weekend I learned that a dealer sold one for $3500 and I heard that one dealer at Long Beach bought one for less.
The arrow on the image below is where very large "wormy tool marks" are on these fakes.
RogerB---Do you feel the same about the New Haven fugio restrikes which are being graded and slabbed by the major grading services? These coins were struck by counterfeit dies and are counterfeits.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The piece described is not debatable. It is a counterfeit and anyone involved is a crook.....The same for ALL modern counterfeits and ALL modern counterfeiters and all who aid their illegal activities.
Collectors cry and whine about fakes and post indignant messages about fakes they spot on ebay and elsewhere. Omega-signed fakes are identical to ALL other modern fakes. Collectors either must accept the modern fakes or reject them -- there is no middle ground.
This is absolutely clear and no further comment is necessary. The sell of the counterfeit has been reported to ebay and the US Secret Service. May the crook rot in jail.
@RogerB said:
The piece described is not debatable. It is a counterfeit and anyone involved is a crook.....The same for ALL modern counterfeits and ALL modern counterfeiters and all who aid their illegal activities.
Collectors cry and whine about fakes and post indignant messages about fakes they spot on ebay and elsewhere. Omega-signed fakes are identical to ALL other modern fakes. Collectors either must accept the modern fakes or reject them -- there is no middle ground.
This is absolutely clear and no further comment is necessary. The sell of the counterfeit has been reported to ebay and the US Secret Service. May the crook rot in jail.
I at least partially agree with RogerB here. If you aren't going to complain about the Omega fake - which is a MODERN fake since it's less than 50 years old - then don't ever complain about Chinese fakes. After all, the Chinese fakes are less deceptive than the Omega coin here. They are sold as copies, not struck in silver, and at 99 cents are hardly a major fraud. The Omega is struck in gold to specifications and at at least double melt is a major profit center.
[Yes, yes, I know that someone who buys the 99 cent could try and perpetrate a fraud but that's like blaming Smith & Wesson for the bank robbery.]
@jmlanzaf So I suppose a Henning nickel is OK to buy because it's older than 50 years? Actually, I'd like to own a Henning nickel just because the story that goes with them is so interesting.
@Mark said: @jmlanzaf So I suppose a Henning nickel is OK to buy because it's older than 50 years? Actually, I'd like to own a Henning nickel just because the story that goes with them is so interesting.
I never said any of them were okay or not okay. But Chinese fakes would be in the same category (modern) as the Omega. You can decide they are okay or not okay - the Secret Service may disagree - but it isn't logically consistent to be mad about one and excited about acquiring the other.
@RogerB - the production of counterfeit coins is illegal, but owning them is not necessarily illegal. If this Omega piece was made prior to the Hobby Protection Act it is not illegal to own in its current state - this is without question and the law is very clear here. If it was made after the HPA, it would be illegal to own since the word 'COPY' is not punched on the obverse and reverse.
Circulating contemporary counterfeits, say from the 19th century U.S., are definitely not illegal to own. They have a very pertinent and relevant history within the U.S. (and Canada), and in at least one period counterfeit coins actually played a key role in curbing a great depression. The U.S. government tolerated counterfeiting to a certain extent prior to the Civil War. In addition, prior to the Enforcement of Counterfeiting Prevention Act of April 21, 1806 it was not illegal to counterfeit U.S. federal coins between 1793 and this Act; and I own a couple pedigreed counterfeits from this period when these were not illegal to make.
Bottom line - coin counterfeits, counterfeiting, and owning their paraphernalia is not as black and white as some people/numismatists have traditionally believed.
@RogerB said:
The piece described is not debatable. It is a counterfeit and anyone involved is a crook.....The same for ALL modern counterfeits and ALL modern counterfeiters and all who aid their illegal activities.
Collectors cry and whine about fakes and post indignant messages about fakes they spot on ebay and elsewhere. Omega-signed fakes are identical to ALL other modern fakes. Collectors either must accept the modern fakes or reject them -- there is no middle ground.
This is absolutely clear and no further comment is necessary. The sell of the counterfeit has been reported to ebay and the US Secret Service. May the crook rot in jail.
Why such a strong distinction with moderns? Do you like fakes over a certain age?
@Mark said: @jmlanzaf So I suppose a Henning nickel is OK to buy because it's older than 50 years? Actually, I'd like to own a Henning nickel just because the story that goes with them is so interesting.
I never said any of them were okay or not okay. But Chinese fakes would be in the same category (modern) as the Omega. You can decide they are okay or not okay - the Secret Service may disagree - but it isn't logically consistent to be mad about one and excited about acquiring the other.
IMHO, this is absolute nonsense. I'm not going to go off subject and write about the legality of buying/selling/collecting counterfeits. When they were made is ONLY important with regard to being "contemporary" to the times or something made later.
IMO, there is only one consideration that is important. The deceptiveness of the counterfeit to an informed or literate person the time it was passed. Example, an educated person would not be fooled by a "Bungtown" in colonial times. Just as today, a majority of informed folk would not be fooled by the Chinese crap.
It is the super deceptive Chinese fakes that pass the TPGS for a short time (as the "Omega's) that are worthy of collecting.
I never said any of them were okay or not okay. But Chinese fakes would be in the same category (modern) as the Omega. You can decide they are okay or not okay - the Secret Service may disagree - but it isn't logically consistent to be mad about one and excited about acquiring the other.
IMHO, this is absolute nonsense. I'm not going to go off subject and write about the legality of buying/selling/collecting counterfeits. When they were made is ONLY important with regard to being "contemporary" to the times or something made later.
However you want to say it. By modern, I mean non-contemporary. But in either case, the Omega's and the Chinese coins are in the same category.
The only U.S. coin counterfeits that much respect from me are the “bungtown coppers” which were issued in the late 1780s. They were part of the series of events that resulted in the collapse in value for the copper coinage before the Federal Government opened the first U.S. Mint.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Comments
He ends his description with "Authentic".
He must mean "Authentic Omega Man Gold Fake".
But not cheap Chinese copy.
Will someone pay $2500? I think someone just might.
Yes,I think it will sell for more than that. At that price, it's only a little better than double scrap.
It appears to have a little color, attesting for, perhaps, a bit of age.
.
It's a counterfeit coin. Buying it simply supports counterfeiters and those other criminals who work with them !
Oh Boy! Where's the Omega Man? That's right, off to the FBI or CIA
@Insider2
Would like to have his comments...
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
+1
Yep...@Insider2 will have some comments on that one... He is at a coin show today I think...Cheers, RickO
Yes and no. If these were still being made, then it would be supporting the counterfeiter(s), but it is highly doubtful these are still being made. So, these are now merely high-quality numismatic curiosities and forgeries on par with the other modern, generally junkier Chinese type counterfeits of U.S. coins.
If you used the same logic to circulating contemporary counterfeits, say of the 19th century, that is on a different level because those were made for circulation, as opposed to this $20 HR which was used to fool the numismatic market.
Bottom-line, not all counterfeits are equal, and some have more interest, appeal, intrigue and mythology than others.
its got the omega man sign in one area and then it says authentic in the other. is'int that a violation of the rules?
The reason I posted it is so you can swipe the images for future reference. They're not the best pix, but one of em is pretty good showing the omega.
Here are the pictures for easy viewing.
Thank you @topstuf for sharing
It is a counterfeit coin. It does not matter when it was made, or by whom, or under what circumstances. It is illegal and anyone cooperating with the crook trying to sell it is equally culpable - and equally reprehensible. Exactly the same as facilitating any other felony !
No excuses, no B.S.
This would pose a problem. I don't see how it can be listed since it's a counterfeit ...and... I don't know how title can pass or payment be enforced on an illegal item.
Oh well. I just thought posting it for educational purposes would be good as we often discuss Omega junk and now you can get some pics for reference.
EBay listing of this counterfeit has been removed.
Blah. Way to kill the fun guys.
Agree. It was what it was with no intent to deceive. Let the Feds seize it if they care to.
LOL. I guess all the folks who collect contemporary C/F are supporting all the dead guys who made them long ago.
This particular coin is "historic." AFAIK, most have been destroyed. At a show this weekend I learned that a dealer sold one for $3500 and I heard that one dealer at Long Beach bought one for less.
The arrow on the image below is where very large "wormy tool marks" are on these fakes.
RogerB---Do you feel the same about the New Haven fugio restrikes which are being graded and slabbed by the major grading services? These coins were struck by counterfeit dies and are counterfeits.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Colour is off, not an authentic Omega. They were struck from the 50 peso Mexican coin. Not even close.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
The piece described is not debatable. It is a counterfeit and anyone involved is a crook.....The same for ALL modern counterfeits and ALL modern counterfeiters and all who aid their illegal activities.
Collectors cry and whine about fakes and post indignant messages about fakes they spot on ebay and elsewhere. Omega-signed fakes are identical to ALL other modern fakes. Collectors either must accept the modern fakes or reject them -- there is no middle ground.
This is absolutely clear and no further comment is necessary. The sell of the counterfeit has been reported to ebay and the US Secret Service. May the crook rot in jail.
They were ALLEGEDLY struck from the 50 peso coin from a rather untrustworthy source.
But, I like the idea of this being a counterfeit counterfeit....hmmm...would that make it real?
I at least partially agree with RogerB here. If you aren't going to complain about the Omega fake - which is a MODERN fake since it's less than 50 years old - then don't ever complain about Chinese fakes. After all, the Chinese fakes are less deceptive than the Omega coin here. They are sold as copies, not struck in silver, and at 99 cents are hardly a major fraud. The Omega is struck in gold to specifications and at at least double melt is a major profit center.
[Yes, yes, I know that someone who buys the 99 cent could try and perpetrate a fraud but that's like blaming Smith & Wesson for the bank robbery.]
@jmlanzaf So I suppose a Henning nickel is OK to buy because it's older than 50 years? Actually, I'd like to own a Henning nickel just because the story that goes with them is so interesting.
I never said any of them were okay or not okay. But Chinese fakes would be in the same category (modern) as the Omega. You can decide they are okay or not okay - the Secret Service may disagree - but it isn't logically consistent to be mad about one and excited about acquiring the other.
@jmlanzaf Yes, I 100% agree with you about fakes--I was just poking at you a bit.
But I'd still like to own a Henning nickel...
@RogerB - the production of counterfeit coins is illegal, but owning them is not necessarily illegal. If this Omega piece was made prior to the Hobby Protection Act it is not illegal to own in its current state - this is without question and the law is very clear here. If it was made after the HPA, it would be illegal to own since the word 'COPY' is not punched on the obverse and reverse.
Circulating contemporary counterfeits, say from the 19th century U.S., are definitely not illegal to own. They have a very pertinent and relevant history within the U.S. (and Canada), and in at least one period counterfeit coins actually played a key role in curbing a great depression. The U.S. government tolerated counterfeiting to a certain extent prior to the Civil War. In addition, prior to the Enforcement of Counterfeiting Prevention Act of April 21, 1806 it was not illegal to counterfeit U.S. federal coins between 1793 and this Act; and I own a couple pedigreed counterfeits from this period when these were not illegal to make.
Bottom line - coin counterfeits, counterfeiting, and owning their paraphernalia is not as black and white as some people/numismatists have traditionally believed.
Why such a strong distinction with moderns? Do you like fakes over a certain age?
CONGRATULATIONS to the 1500 DISAGREEable "blitzDUD" on being the 1st member to ever EARN 100+ ABUSES.
>
EEK! Fibrous cotton gloves on soft gold. SCRATCH WARNING! SCRATCH WARNING! DANGER! DANGER!
I think Latex or Nitrile gloves are really preferable. Anathema as it may be, bare skin is probably better than cotton on something as soft as gold.
IMHO, this is absolute nonsense. I'm not going to go off subject and write about the legality of buying/selling/collecting counterfeits. When they were made is ONLY important with regard to being "contemporary" to the times or something made later.
IMO, there is only one consideration that is important. The deceptiveness of the counterfeit to an informed or literate person the time it was passed. Example, an educated person would not be fooled by a "Bungtown" in colonial times. Just as today, a majority of informed folk would not be fooled by the Chinese crap.
It is the super deceptive Chinese fakes that pass the TPGS for a short time (as the "Omega's) that are worthy of collecting.
Someone flagged this post. For whatever the reason I don't know. It looks like the original post is FACTUAL.
However you want to say it. By modern, I mean non-contemporary. But in either case, the Omega's and the Chinese coins are in the same category.
I'll agree that both are counterfeits no matter how well they are made or who is fooled.
The only U.S. coin counterfeits that much respect from me are the “bungtown coppers” which were issued in the late 1780s. They were part of the series of events that resulted in the collapse in value for the copper coinage before the Federal Government opened the first U.S. Mint.
I may or may not have news on one of his two omegas. Stay tuned.
Good thread!
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