Accidentally Cherrypicked an Indian Head Cent Proof

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Kyle
Kyle Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

I picked this up online a few weeks ago; the seller's photos of the coin weren't great, but I could tell there was some color hiding on the surfaces. Can't say I was expecting it to be a proof, so that was a nice surprise!

@FadeToBlack took some regular and axial photos of the coin for me.

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  • kaz
    kaz Posts: 9,378 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    great looking color . How can you tell it's a proof?

  • robec
    robec Posts: 7,051 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Cool Indian. I don't think it's a proof though.

    - Bob -

    MPL's - Lincolns of Colorimage
    Central Valley Roosevelts

  • Kyle
    Kyle Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @kaz said:
    great looking color . How can you tell it's a proof?

    The coin has mirrorlike fields, without regular cartwheel luster like you would expect to see on a mintstate business strike example.

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  • Kyle
    Kyle Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @FadeToBlack made a video of the coin showing off the fields.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMspNccPgbM

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  • thefinn
    thefinn Posts: 2,657 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I don't see square rims like a proof should have. It may have been an early strike on proof dies put into business-strike production.

    thefinn
  • thefinn
    thefinn Posts: 2,657 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Pictures of the edge and rim would help determine proof status. Definitely has mirrored fields. Worth sending to ANACS for $20 or so to get it settled.

    thefinn
  • davewesen
    davewesen Posts: 6,981 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I hope you are correct. I had a similar looking cent that came back UNC details - cleaned

  • bolivarshagnasty
    bolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,359 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Feather details very weak for a proof coin.

  • Bochiman
    Bochiman Posts: 25,790 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Nice looking toning.
    Can you tell if it has been cleaned though?

    Given some of the "non-crispness", that's what worries me on it, thinking it may not be a proof.
    As mentioned, maybe ANACS, just to see, and then, if comfortable about it grading as a proof, and actually grading, PCGS.

    I haven't pulled out my 1887 proof, to compare, but just something in the photos has me wondering.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • WinLoseWin
    WinLoseWin Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The mirror flash in the video looks like a Proof otherwise that would be a very strong PL for a business strike.

    On PCGS Coinfacts, there are a few that look like they have similar strikes on the feathers with most being stonger.

    Here are all the photos in the Brown category. Red and Red-Brown are in different links.

    pcgscoinfacts.com/CoinImages.aspx?s=2348

    "To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

  • Raybo
    Raybo Posts: 5,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Maybe but not sure. :|

  • Raybo
    Raybo Posts: 5,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    After looking I think it's a BS.

  • Bochiman
    Bochiman Posts: 25,790 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    At the end of the day, I hope I, and others, are wrong, and it is a proof that you found.

    Personally, if you, inhand, don't think it has been cleaned and that is the reason for the toning and the proof like surfaces, then I would find it worthwhile to try in a submission.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

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  • cheezhed
    cheezhed Posts: 6,405 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Nice coin, interesting debate.

    Many happy BST transactions
  • Kyle
    Kyle Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Bochiman said:
    At the end of the day, I hope I, and others, are wrong, and it is a proof that you found.

    Personally, if you, inhand, don't think it has been cleaned and that is the reason for the toning and the proof like surfaces, then I would find it worthwhile to try in a submission.

    Nothing jumped out screaming it had been cleaned, which is a good sign. The coin was submitted to PCGS at the ANA show; I will update this thread when the grade is posted. Proof or not, it's got nice color which is why I bought it!

    Thanks for all the comments, everyone.

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  • golden
    golden Posts: 10,535 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Beautiful coin but I don't think that it is a proof.

  • CascadeChris
    CascadeChris Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I, too, have bought Indians as MS that came back PR... and one was from a former grader. They can be deceiving..

    The more you VAM..
  • Walkerguy21D
    Walkerguy21D Posts: 12,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Yes, I agree, an interesting coin with nice color, and great job with multiple photos and a video.

    I also don't think it's a Proof, but we will see.
    Wondering since you stated this "The coin has mirrorlike fields, without regular cartwheel luster", if perhaps a very light layer of lacquer or something was applied long ago?

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  • Gluggo
    Gluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I like your pictures

  • 291fifth
    291fifth Posts: 25,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Not a proof. The gash on the cheek is a major negative. Probably an AU by wear.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • ironmanl63
    ironmanl63 Posts: 1,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    In my experience coins that look like the one in the video come back as altered surfaces. I hope I am wrong and wish you luck with your submission.

  • keets
    keets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 20, 2018 5:50AM
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    MS/PR AU58 details or lower due to the obverse contact on the cheek and what looks like clear rub on the headdress feathers.

  • davewesen
    davewesen Posts: 6,981 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I realize you already sent it in, but if the edge looks like the fields, your chances go up.

  • Namvet69
    Namvet69 Posts: 9,423 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Still a nice find, no matter what the flaws. Nothing is perfect in life. Peace Roy

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    Unknown
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  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Nice IHC....I look forward to the TPG disposition.....Great pictures and video. Cheers, RickO

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