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Accidentally Cherrypicked an Indian Head Cent Proof

KyleKyle Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

I picked this up online a few weeks ago; the seller's photos of the coin weren't great, but I could tell there was some color hiding on the surfaces. Can't say I was expecting it to be a proof, so that was a nice surprise!

@FadeToBlack took some regular and axial photos of the coin for me.

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Comments

  • kazkaz Posts: 9,155 ✭✭✭✭✭

    great looking color . How can you tell it's a proof?

  • robecrobec Posts: 6,743 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cool Indian. I don't think it's a proof though.

  • KyleKyle Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @kaz said:
    great looking color . How can you tell it's a proof?

    The coin has mirrorlike fields, without regular cartwheel luster like you would expect to see on a mintstate business strike example.

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  • KyleKyle Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FadeToBlack made a video of the coin showing off the fields.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMspNccPgbM

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  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't see square rims like a proof should have. It may have been an early strike on proof dies put into business-strike production.

    thefinn
  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pictures of the edge and rim would help determine proof status. Definitely has mirrored fields. Worth sending to ANACS for $20 or so to get it settled.

    thefinn
  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,105 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I hope you are correct. I had a similar looking cent that came back UNC details - cleaned

  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,350 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Feather details very weak for a proof coin.

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,372 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice looking toning.
    Can you tell if it has been cleaned though?

    Given some of the "non-crispness", that's what worries me on it, thinking it may not be a proof.
    As mentioned, maybe ANACS, just to see, and then, if comfortable about it grading as a proof, and actually grading, PCGS.

    I haven't pulled out my 1887 proof, to compare, but just something in the photos has me wondering.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • WinLoseWinWinLoseWin Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The mirror flash in the video looks like a Proof otherwise that would be a very strong PL for a business strike.

    On PCGS Coinfacts, there are a few that look like they have similar strikes on the feathers with most being stonger.

    Here are all the photos in the Brown category. Red and Red-Brown are in different links.

    pcgscoinfacts.com/CoinImages.aspx?s=2348

    "To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

  • RayboRaybo Posts: 5,310 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe but not sure. :|

  • RayboRaybo Posts: 5,310 ✭✭✭✭✭

    After looking I think it's a BS.

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,372 ✭✭✭✭✭

    At the end of the day, I hope I, and others, are wrong, and it is a proof that you found.

    Personally, if you, inhand, don't think it has been cleaned and that is the reason for the toning and the proof like surfaces, then I would find it worthwhile to try in a submission.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

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  • cheezhedcheezhed Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice coin, interesting debate.

    Many happy BST transactions
  • KyleKyle Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Bochiman said:
    At the end of the day, I hope I, and others, are wrong, and it is a proof that you found.

    Personally, if you, inhand, don't think it has been cleaned and that is the reason for the toning and the proof like surfaces, then I would find it worthwhile to try in a submission.

    Nothing jumped out screaming it had been cleaned, which is a good sign. The coin was submitted to PCGS at the ANA show; I will update this thread when the grade is posted. Proof or not, it's got nice color which is why I bought it!

    Thanks for all the comments, everyone.

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  • goldengolden Posts: 9,549 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Beautiful coin but I don't think that it is a proof.

  • CascadeChrisCascadeChris Posts: 2,524 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I, too, have bought Indians as MS that came back PR... and one was from a former grader. They can be deceiving..

    The more you VAM..
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,428 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, I agree, an interesting coin with nice color, and great job with multiple photos and a video.

    I also don't think it's a Proof, but we will see.
    Wondering since you stated this "The coin has mirrorlike fields, without regular cartwheel luster", if perhaps a very light layer of lacquer or something was applied long ago?

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  • GluggoGluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like your pictures

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,321 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not a proof. The gash on the cheek is a major negative. Probably an AU by wear.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • ironmanl63ironmanl63 Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In my experience coins that look like the one in the video come back as altered surfaces. I hope I am wrong and wish you luck with your submission.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 20, 2018 5:50AM

    MS/PR AU58 details or lower due to the obverse contact on the cheek and what looks like clear rub on the headdress feathers.

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,105 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I realize you already sent it in, but if the edge looks like the fields, your chances go up.

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,947 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Still a nice find, no matter what the flaws. Nothing is perfect in life. Peace Roy

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  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice IHC....I look forward to the TPG disposition.....Great pictures and video. Cheers, RickO

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