PCGS or NGC?

asheland · July 22, 2018 12:06PM

Indeed the new PCGS holders look excellent if nothing else!

NGS428 · July 22, 2018 12:08PM

I prefer PCGS.

The Registry is what drives a single brand holder in my collection.

RWM · July 22, 2018 12:59PM

People here tend to like the PCGS coins better in part because of their resale value. But doesn't that mean you had to pay more to get the coin in the first place?

Anyway, both are great companies and it would be hard to go wrong with either. Hell, if the coin is right I'd buy it regardless of the holder or lack thereof.

Cougar1978 · July 22, 2018 3:12PM

If a coin is a real blazer beautiful Gem bu or Ch bu it will attract a lot of attention at a show. Spotted, Coins with dark toning dull Luster they will shy away - the coin is not really BU. I like coins that are BU not just unc

Question: which TPG holder make BU coin look brighter, more lustrous? I am not talking technically graded toned coins (blackies with dark stuff) - but BU gems that look as pristine as day came from mint. Now your getting into PQ territory.

GOT BU?

dagingerbeasttt · July 22, 2018 3:16PM

I prefer ANACS for variety desg. But all of my slabbed collection is pcgs.

Cameonut · July 22, 2018 3:44PM

@Justacommeman said:
I buy both but they all end up in PCGS holders. So I do buy the coin and not the holder BUT I get them into the holder of choice.

I prefer PCGS for many reasons

1) they are the markets #1 choice. They command more money when you sell

2) the optics are better

3) I like uniformity.

4) I do not like the look of the NGC holder

5) participate on the PCGS message boards & enjoy their members only shows

6) I like the True Service

Mark

Spot on Mark.
I have NEVER crossed a PCGS coin to NGC. But I have crossed dozens of NGC coins to PCGS plastic, even if I took a hit on grade or designation.

TwoSides2aCoin · July 23, 2018 6:46AM

I like my way, so I think I'll keep my way.

mommam17 · July 23, 2018 6:53AM

I have always considered PCGS and NGC equal and happy doing that. Makes it easy for me that way....

RG · July 24, 2018 2:53PM

Depends on your cynicism. The two main TPGs have the overall market by the cojones. CAC twists the knife. If you want the most stable market valuation, it's a PCGS label buttered with a CAC sticker. About as safe as you can get with your money.
If you really like the coin, consider it fairly graded, and are not really worried about resale, either will do or even one of the other TPGs. Of course, this also goes, in spades, for raw coins

Insider2 · July 25, 2018 1:10AM

@Cameonut said: "NGC is tougher on strike designations across the board and this is by definition. For instance, NGC requires top and lower bell lines to be full for a FBL Franklin whereas PCGS and CAC only require the bottom two."

This is something that "frosts" me! It's a perfect case of lowering the standards. At one time FULL BELL LINES was both sets of bell lines full and complete up to the crack with no bridges or hits across the lines. It indicated a full strike or fresh reverse die. Heck, the Franklin purists wanted a FBL coin to have the two sprigs of hair ON THE OBVERSE struck up also. Now that made no sense at all to me - that's really too much.

Then along came the change and PCGS dropped the top lines. BTW, the last time I checked (possibly 15 months ago), the CAC web site image of a FBL coin had a major gash across the bottom bell lines at one end of the bell!

mt_msla · July 25, 2018 3:13AM

@jt88 said:
PCGS for sure. NGC photo is bad on their site. You can't even download the photo. Most NGC coin sell at discount.

... it IS possible to download the photos. need the developer tools in Chrome. not hard actually.

islemangu · July 25, 2018 6:54AM

PCGS because their holders are more transparent than the solid white/black NGC holders...ANACS on top in this regards though.

Unknown · July 25, 2018 10:58AM

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asheland · July 25, 2018 11:06AM

@Elemint said:
I like both though prefer PCGS by about 2 to 1 in general. From what I've seen on high magnification images like
the ones on Heritage Auctions, PCGS is slightly more conservative with their grading. PCGS usually sells at higher prices in the auction houses...not on ebay though! I favor PCGS holders but some coins look great in NGC slabs
like this. WOW!

Nice textile toning there!

shinywhite · July 25, 2018 11:10AM

@asheland said:

@Elemint said:
I like both though prefer PCGS by about 2 to 1 in general. From what I've seen on high magnification images like
the ones on Heritage Auctions, PCGS is slightly more conservative with their grading. PCGS usually sells at higher prices in the auction houses...not on ebay though! I favor PCGS holders but some coins look great in NGC slabs
like this. WOW!

Nice textile toning there!

That is definitely a beautiful example. Call me crazy, I prefer coins that arent so toned...idk why, but I just do. Now ,dont get me wrong, that toner is WOW! I just dont particularly favor them over coins that arent toned.

oih82w8 · July 25, 2018 11:29AM

My collection has been a mish-mash of few different TPG services...in the past. My collection now is 98% PCGS with a few ANACS @dcarr pieces and an NGC holder or four awaiting to cross into PCGS or sold outright.

shinywhite · July 25, 2018 11:38AM

@oih82w8 said:
My collection has been a mish-mash of few different TPG services...in the past. My collection now is 98% PCGS with a few ANACS @dcarr pieces and an NGC holder or four awaiting to cross into PCGS or sold outright.

I tried getting some of the Dan Carr "fantasy" Morgans. Either they are sold out or only the privy can get those. Thusly, they are very beautiful!

LindeDad · July 25, 2018 12:01PM

The Host of this site.

johnny9434 · July 25, 2018 12:08PM

ia prefer pcgs as well but ngc is fine as a second. jmo

Unknown · July 25, 2018 9:00PM

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OnlyGoldIsMoney · July 25, 2018 9:03PM

PCGS/CAC only for me.

Dave99B · July 25, 2018 9:26PM

Either is just fine with me, as long as the coin is nice for the grade.

Dave

DennisH · July 26, 2018 10:02AM

PCGS

Jimnight · July 26, 2018 10:42AM

I'll stick with PCGS.

topstuf · July 26, 2018 10:47AM

As things progress, a lot of things are changing.
One of which will be ...in my opinion.... a massive preference for PCGS.

And not because it's on this site.

Type2 · July 26, 2018 10:49AM

Look at the coins not the holders nice coins are nice coins in any holder, You just need to find them. As for me I send all my raw coins to PCGS 100% if I'm going to have them graded.

robkool · July 26, 2018 10:56AM

PCGS !!!

shinywhite · July 26, 2018 11:52AM

@topstuf said:
As things progress, a lot of things are changing.
One of which will be ...in my opinion.... a massive preference for PCGS.

And not because it's on this site.

I'm glad you say this. Some people tend to think this site is biased. But, I feel this makes no difference. Like you say,"A good coin, is a coin".

TONEDDOLLARS · July 26, 2018 12:58PM

If I have GSa,s they go to NGC as I like them in the original holder not in a tomb, so that I can store them in the original box they came in. All other coins PCGS.

Kkathyl · July 26, 2018 1:15PM

I buy the coin and have found the quality the same (because I am looking at the coin) but I have more PCGS coins in holder. I like them both but love the PCGS forum and the apps.

DIMEMAN · July 26, 2018 2:44PM

@Justacommeman said:
I buy both but they all end up in PCGS holders. So I do buy the coin and not the holder BUT I get them into the holder of choice.

I prefer PCGS for many reasons

1) they are the markets #1 choice. They command more money when you sell

2) the optics are better

3) I like uniformity.

4) I do not like the look of the NGC holder

5) participate on the PCGS message boards & enjoy their members only shows

6) I like the True View Service

Mark

I agree with everything here and I'm with Mark on all 6 counts. Plus the PCGS Registry is a 1000% better than ngc.

jt88 · July 27, 2018 11:23AM

I just bought this from HA, I did not look at the coin before I bid because I don't think I will get it. HA really sell lot of NGC over graded coin or even fake coin. Many of my buyers complaint about that. Looks like there is chop mark on the coin, around 8 o'clock area. I can find many examples of NGC over graded coin.

Along · July 27, 2018 5:19PM

Prefer PCGS and it would have to be something really cool for me to buy NGC and go through the effort to get it crossed.

fiftysevener · July 27, 2018 8:01PM

Consider the fact that the number one fourth party verifier doesn't care if it is NGC or PCGS. They only care about the coin. Yes I'm referring to CAC of course. And I like the idea that NGC doesn't have the conflict of interest among its 'Board of Experts'. Similar numbers of coins are graded at both services and yet PCGS coins sell at auction by at least 5 to 1. Why don't these coins go into solid collections for a generation or two ?

PerryHall · July 27, 2018 11:17PM

@fiftysevener said:
Consider the fact that the number one fourth party verifier doesn't care if it is NGC or PCGS. They only care about the coin. Yes I'm referring to CAC of course. And I like the idea that NGC doesn't have the conflict of interest among its 'Board of Experts'. Similar numbers of coins are graded at both services and yet PCGS coins sell at auction by at least 5 to 1. Why don't these coins go into solid collections for a generation or two ?

Can you elaborate on the "conflict of interest" that you are referring to?

CoinPhysicist · July 27, 2018 11:27PM

@jt88 said:
HA really sell lot of NGC over graded coin or even fake coin. Many of my buyers complaint about that. Looks like there is chop mark on the coin, around 8 o'clock area. I can find many examples of NGC over graded coin.

Are you claiming that Heritage sells a lot of fake coins?

jt88 · July 27, 2018 11:38PM

@CoinPhysicist said:

@jt88 said:
HA really sell lot of NGC over graded coin or even fake coin. Many of my buyers complaint about that. Looks like there is chop mark on the coin, around 8 o'clock area. I can find many examples of NGC over graded coin.

Are you claiming that Heritage sells a lot of fake coins?

Some, I bought couples. I bought a over 10k coin from ha and sent it to pcgs to cross twice both time come back as fake. I don’t even know what to do. I also bought couple fake raw coins from ha and sent to pcgs, come back as questionable authentication. Some of my buyers told me the same thing.

PerryHall · July 27, 2018 11:45PM

@jt88 said:
I just bought this from HA, I did not look at the coin before I bid because I don't think I will get it. HA really sell lot of NGC over graded coin or even fake coin. Many of my buyers complaint about that. Looks like there is chop mark on the coin, around 8 o'clock area. I can find many examples of NGC over graded coin.>

That's not a chop mark. It's a contact mark which is why this coin is graded only MS-63 rather than a higher grade. Also, NGC very rarely slabs counterfeit coins. While PCGS was busy slabbing the Micro O Morgan Dollars which were later proven to be counterfeit, NGC was rejecting these coins as counterfeits.

fiftysevener · July 28, 2018 8:38AM

@PerryHall said:

@fiftysevener said:
Consider the fact that the number one fourth party verifier doesn't care if it is NGC or PCGS. They only care about the coin. Yes I'm referring to CAC of course. And I like the idea that NGC doesn't have the conflict of interest among its 'Board of Experts'. Similar numbers of coins are graded at both services and yet PCGS coins sell at auction by at least 5 to 1. Why don't these coins go into solid collections for a generation or two ?

Can you elaborate on the "conflict of interest" that you are referring to?

A conflict of interest exists when company major shareholders actively market a product which has a value solely determined by them. This doesn't mean its illegal. It means that the very people that determine the value of their product stand to benefit from their actions.

Peace_dollar88 · July 28, 2018 10:14AM

I like PCGS better. I do like old NGC fat holders though.

ARCO · July 29, 2018 7:21AM

@shinywhite said:
Is it really a question of who is better as to preference? I would really like some insight on this. I have very few graded coins. They are all graded by pcgs. I tend to lean toward pcgs simply bc it's just what's already in my collection.

Well, for finding and buying coins, PCGS, NGC and ANACS seem to have fairly close grading ranges from my experiences. This is the circulated grade ranges. The market prefers PCGS when selling.

I love to find a nice coin in NGC or ANACS, crack it out and send it to PCGS. I have found that a raw coin gets a better grade than a crossover. It is almost like the graders refuse to give the same grade as the competition.

Insider2 · July 29, 2018 8:03AM

@jt88 said: "I just bought this from HA, I did not look at the coin before I bid because I don't think I will get it. HA really sell lot of NGC over graded coin or even fake coin. Many of my buyers complaint about that. Looks like there is chop mark on the coin, around 8 o'clock area. I can find many examples of NGC over graded coin.

@mkman123
@CoinPhysicist

OK, the two of you have my blood boiling! Previously, the OP has posted at least one coin that was slabbed by a major TPGS and bought in an auction. He became suspicious of the coin and asked members what he should do. We followed his progress over the months until he got a refund from the major auction house.

Now, it is a WELL-KNOWN FACT that ALL the major TPGS have slabbed counterfeit or over-graded coins. A few have been sold through major auctions. The latest have been in the Large cent and 1/2 cent series. Mistakes happen. TPGS's are still one of our best protections against this type of error. So...

I hope this discussion does not turn into an "I prefer this major TPGS because they don't make errors" kind of thread because that's just not helpful. Better for all of us to see the actual error so we can learn from it as the TPGS's do.
IMO, members who disagree with someone OUT OF IGNORANCE (Defined as: the state of being uninformed) should remove their "disagreement" as soon as they become informed.
Auction houses sell coins. Now, they have less of a burden to correctly describe them and pass the initial description on to the slab label. The auction company just adds "fluff." Any errors can be passed back to the TPGS if they are detected.

ms70 · July 29, 2018 9:08AM

I am not a grading expert by any means, however my opinions are more regularly aligned with PCGS so I stay with them.

jt88 · July 29, 2018 10:45AM

Once upon a time I used to like NGC because PCGS did not has their photo on their site so there were many fake coin in PCGS holder on the market. I expressed my view on this board couples times and PCGS listen. They improve their service and provide great photo on their site. I started buying PCGS coins and cross many of my NGC coins to PCGS. NGC holder owners , it is time for your guys to put pressure on NGC, asking NGC to improve their services because it is your investment. I only have about three boxes of NGC coins that I will either sell or cross over to PCGS so I don't really care that much. Every time when I have to verify NGC coin I feel sick to see their photo on their site. I can’t believe NGC holder owner can allow that happen.

jt88 · July 29, 2018 10:51AM

SB used to sell many NGC coins but now their switched to PCGS. I heard their even advice their co-signer to cross NGC to PCGS before they auction out the coin.

dbldie55 · July 29, 2018 10:53AM

Depends. I prefer PCGS, but there are coins that PCGS does not grade that NGC does. For these, I use NGC (and have had to submit all myself, where I buy most of my PCGS graded coins already in the holder)

Also, you can download the images from NGC. (actually AWS)

pbj · July 29, 2018 11:40AM

@fiftysevener can you continue to elaborate and clearly spell out the situation that you understand exists? What is the exact nature of the "conflict of interest", and what is its extent? I just watched two episodes of the "American Greed" series that dealt with collectables fraud. One dealt with selling coins that were intentionally overgraded by the fraudsters to unknowing buyers. (season 9, episode 1). Millions of dollars for the fraudsters, and what they were doing _was_illegal and resulted in jail time. The other dealt with fraud in the sports memorabilia market... mainly baseball cards. A major player intentionally overgraded cards and sold known fakes on a large scale. It was also illegal, earned millions for the fraudsters, and ended with jail time. It was on a much larger scale than the coin scam, so also severely damaged the sports memorabilia market forever and caused devaluation of almost every sports collectable! (season 11, episode 8 - both on Hulu)
I want to be clear that I am in no way intimating that coin TPGs are in any way doing this, but I have never heard the claim you are making before, and having just watched both episodes am interested in what you have to say.

jt88 · July 29, 2018 2:19PM

Plus NGC customer service did not reply to inquire. Once I want to buy a HA gold coin but kind of think that gold coin is very questionable and NGC site did not has the photo, it said contact customer service which makes this coin even more questionable (fake?). So I emailed NGC but never get reply. Of course I did not buy that coin because of that.

Here is the link to the coin on ha.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/tibet/world-coins-china/china-tibet-theocracy-kuang-hsu-gold-off-metal-1-2-rupee-nd-1905-au55-ngc-/a/3058-37107.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Here is the link to that coin on NGC site: https://ngccoin.com/certlookup/2012690-001/55/

If that buyer is on this board, I really hope he can come forward and let us know what he think of the that coin. Anyway buyer be careful with HA NGC coin.

RogerB · July 29, 2018 2:26PM

Authenticity ALWAYS comes first; then disqualifying defects. After those, the appeal of the coin to you is all that counts; a plastic holder can always be changed, but the coin will remain the same.

jt88 · July 29, 2018 2:28PM

@RogerB said:
Authenticity ALWAYS comes first; then disqualifying defects. After those, the appeal of the coin to you is all that counts; a plastic holder can always be changed, but the coin will remain the same.

agree.

PCGS or NGC?

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