How much would you pay for a holder?
ironmanl63
Posts: 1,974 ✭✭✭✭✭
I was watching an 1859 seated dime in the stacks auction. It was graded 65 in a gen 1.0 white rattler holder CAC. The coin sold for $3720.00. It was a nice coin that was accurately graded. It might upgrade to a 66 if regraded but I doubt many people would crack the white holder. The coin sold today for $5750.00 at CRO. PCGS price guide for the coin is $2250.00 in 65 and $4250.00 in 66. Just wondering what you folks would be willing to pay for a holder?
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Key being accurately graded. Someone with money saw potential whether it's there or not. I doubt it was just for the holder.
The eye appeal is stunning.
I could see how someone would think it would upgrade.
Q: How much would you pay for a holder?
A: Yes.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I wouldn’t over pay that much just for the holder alone.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I agree the coin could likely upgrade. It would have to go to 67 to be a win. I am of the belief the holder is the prime reason the coin sold so high. I am not knocking the coin at all!
Me too, and apparently worth tossing the sticker. It will get one again anyway. Maybe they're hoping for a better bean, too? When I was studying people said oh no one cracks out old holders.. well, plenty do, there's just not much left out there that hasn't been upgraded. On the other hand, someone thinks there is, and they've got more coin money and experience than me so hey.
In general for an old holder itself, I may pay 5-10% more if I really liked the coin. For this coin I would not pay a premium as I can't get past the tarnish
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$50 max for the plastic slab + sticker; anything more would be for the quality of the coin.
Not all of the premium here is for plastic; it is for the superior quality of the coin.
What do you think the coin would grade today?
I admit that I will pay more for NGC and PCGS graded coins than I will for raw coins or coins in less than top tier graders. The reason is that I am not really into crossovers at this point in my life.
Having said that, I have to like the coin. If I don’t, it doesn’t matter what holder it’s in. I won’t go after it.
As for the OP coin, I can see when it could cross to an MS-66 holder, from the photo. But once you get beyond MS-64 or so, it turns into a real crap shoot when you are grading from photos. I know others will say that the MS number is lower than that, but that’s my level.,
I think I’ve lost too many shirts over the years to overpay today
EAC 6024
The whole concept of older holders still really comes down to the actual coin and what the coin will likely grade today. There are many coins in first generation holders (both PCGS and NGC) that I wouldn't buy at the stated grade. And yes, there are some that are certainly under graded by today's standards. To truly grade a coin accurately off even the best image is extremely difficult. You really need a good loupe, a good light source, and you need to TILT the coin back and forth to catch any problems, including hairlines and signs of doctoring. Those potential problems, which do affect the grade, are impossible to detect from a static image.
This coin sold for $3720 in a major public auction where it was available to many dealers and collectors. Someone then bought it for $5750. I can only conclude that someone is now buried in this coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
66
This is not just a standard rattler holder. It is a GEN 1.0 white label holder of which there are less than 20 known to exist. The holder is rarer than the coin.
Or that someone has an expensive hat fetish.
Depends on what’s in it
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
The coin pictured above.
I get it, just an attempt at humor
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
So why is that coin worth less if I had it reholdered. Its more stable and shows better in a new holder plus it won't go crooked. Maybe its just me. No it is just me ! Actually I have purchased a coin that was CAC gold sticker rattler from CRO for a next grade up price. It then graded higher and additionally CAC'd. So was that coin worth more in old dingy rattler gold CAC holder? I hope that's not the state of this grand hobby.
I wouldn't pay any extra. I buy coins, not stickers and plastic. Thanks
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
The answer is the coin is still worth the same. Its the holder that was worth so much.
Nice funeral though.
Lakes would know best the value of this rare 108 rattler.
@lakesmann might have better insight.
It's a beautiful coin but you can still overpay for a beautiful coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I think John at CRO knows the market well and the 2 he's sold this month seemed expensive but found homes rather quickly. Of those 2, I think this one is the better buy.
$5750 would be a healthy profit for turning around a coin in a short amount of time from how much it hammered for at auction. However, let us not forget that the coin could have ended up selling for less because of a discount, trade options, payments, credits or any matter of payment. Though it looks and sounds like a lot of money for a white rattler...there may be other means or methods that everyone isn't aware of.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
With or without the coin ???
Has holdermania become a hobby sickness?
I guess in coin collecting you can collect however you want, over pay for a holder if you want to. I just don't get why people do it. Unless the coin is a contender for an upgrade but even then I guess if your paying for the holder your not going to crack the coin for resubmission anyway
HAPPY COLLECTING
I suspect that most of the time, a Gold CAC rattler is worth more than a green CAC new holder one grade up.
The coin being discussed in this thread has a green sticker rather than a gold sticker so CAC doesn't think it'll upgrade. If they thought it would upgrade they would have given it a gold sticker.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I was replying to the comment about a gold stickered coin.
Also, a green sticker leaves open the possibility that the coin may upgrade but be low end for the next grade up.
The OP's question is rather open ... and nearly impossible to answer. Is the question about the value of a specific style of holder?
For example, with this coin, it's an expensive coin in a rare and collectible holder. It becomes difficult to place a 'rational' value on it because it is a 'white elephant' (Fred Weinberg's term). If you are collecting 'while label rattlers,' then this is your coin ... and you may not get another shot at it.
I'll start another thread here here to ask a more directed question about the added value (if any) of a collectible holder.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I would only be interested in the coin... not the holder.
Collectors collect, Not always rationally, but that's what we do.
The "contact" mark below the 9 in the date and second "T" in STATES caught my eye right away. I don't collect MS 19th Century coins and if I did, I would not pursue this one, no matter what holder it was in.
I have paid extra for a nice, fully intact doily holder before. I would pay extra for a Regency holder as well.
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I have zero interest in holders/slabs/labels....So that is great for those who DO collect them, less competition.
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My interest is, and always has been, the coin itself. I do think the coin in the OP would upgrade. Cheers, RickO
I actually get my coins reholdered if they are in a rattler. I hate rattlers!
I'm not sure what conclusion to draw based upon the example. Part of the markup is simply CRO and their audience, rather than the slab/sticker premium -- but certainly they are interrelated. I'd be cautious from drawing any conclusions from this example.
That said, to try to answer the OP's question: I try to not pay a premium for any holder. I pay premiums on coins I really like and when I agree with their premium price.
And doesn't care.
ANA LM
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My last group of new holders with images was $17.00 apiece and about $50.00 for shipping and handling.
Looking closely, the "contact marks" are just the tiny retainers in the rattler slab - nothing more than plastic.
I don't see the coins any better than 65.....actually I don't like it for a Gem 65. The scratch on the obverse from pole cap to star 9 kills it for me at that grade.
Those "scratches" like the ones above her head are die lines - raised on the coin (which I had a chance to see in hand).
CAC thinks it is MS65.
How different is it to buy a piece of old plastic, than paying $1000's for a modern silver bullion coin in new plastic that looks just like the other millions made?