Gold took big hit

Cougar1978 · June 16, 2018 5:13AM

Shall I take my gold coins off the market?

Still a buyer PCGS USGTC if near melt. I don’t think this buying opportunity gonna last long.

Just checked kitco Gold down 23 to 1278.

BillDugan1959 · June 16, 2018 5:27AM

Do the math. Less than a 2% daily decline, following modest recent strength.

derryb · June 16, 2018 6:00AM

Trade wars good for gold. Hold.

ricko · June 16, 2018 6:12AM

Hang tight.... going to be fun for a while.... Cheers, RickO

TwoSides2aCoin · June 16, 2018 6:28AM

Two steps forward, three steps back. Remember when gold was under $300 ? Time flies.

Azurescens · June 16, 2018 8:11AM

@ricko said:
Hang tight.... going to be fun for a while.... Cheers, RickO

I am glad my business keeps expanding enough that I'm tucking away metals every week. I'm loading up on gold, silver and popcorn for this one.

Smudge · June 16, 2018 8:44AM

Silver too. Be contrarian may be an opportunity. I sure wouldn't sell at current prices.

tommy44 · June 16, 2018 9:21AM

Let's see what happens next week. I'm sure it has nothing to do with rising interest rates.

Jimnight · June 16, 2018 9:51AM

Up and down up and down up and down

jmski52 · June 16, 2018 9:58AM

A mild buying opportunity, if you are in that mode.

Timbuk3 · June 16, 2018 10:00AM

Yup, precious metals took a hit !!!!

fiftysevener · June 16, 2018 10:14AM

Silver is a better conductor

coinpalice · June 16, 2018 11:29AM

I don't see a dollar collapse, war or recession anytime soon so just keep stacking and don't even look at the pm market

CuKevin · June 16, 2018 11:40AM

@coinpalice said:
I don't see a dollar collapse, war or recession anytime soon so just keep stacking and don't even look at the pm market

Because collapse of a currency and recessions are so obvious in foresight? See pre-2008 news to see just how impossible that is.
War can be more obvious, but not always.

Type2 · June 16, 2018 12:41PM

All the pro's are saying a grantee Recession in 2020 or 2021 not maybe or if there is going to be one, I can hold till then I'll just keep buying.

RogerB · June 16, 2018 12:51PM

Trade Wars are usually bad for average consumers and businesses. Balanced trade policies can target inequities, but not ad hoc, seat of the underpants bluster.

PS: In investment language a "big hit" is 10% or greater.

blitzdude · June 16, 2018 1:27PM

@Cougar1978 said:
Shall I take my gold coins off the market?

Still a buyer PCGS USGTC if near melt. I don’t think this buying opportunity gonna last long.

Just checked kitco Gold down 23 to 1278.

Big hit? Down a measly $23 dollars. Golds getting ready to takeoff. $1500 at least, you heard it here first, or if you visit kitco heard it here second. lol

LanLord · June 16, 2018 1:38PM

@TwoSides2aCoin said:
Two steps forward, three steps back. Remember when gold was under $300 ? Time flies.

Remember it and bought some, but not nearly enough

topstuf · June 16, 2018 2:16PM

I done did all the buying I intend to do as far as generic "bullion."
Stopped when I lost track of my acquisitions on my database.
Plus can't see where I might need more under ANY condition.
Once I hit a reserve that would last over a hundred years under any scenario I could concoct, I quit.

However, I ....am... leaning most if not all newps toward gold COINS. Numismatic ones.
Them's more fun anyhow.
I sure do wish I had made that "trade" for 1800 tenth eagles for 180 1 ouncers, though.

Shoot, them was the days.

NVU · June 16, 2018 3:17PM

@Smudge said:
Silver too. Be contrarian may be an opportunity. I sure wouldn't sell at current prices.

+1

Gold/Silver ratio favors silver big time so it’s a better play. Unless someone is already heavy in silver and light in gold, then add some gold to portfolio for diversification.

Boosibri · June 17, 2018 3:02AM

What is the thesis for owning an asset class which does not generate cash flow in a period where interest rates will be surely rising. What must be true for gold to then become a good relative investment?

topstuf · June 17, 2018 6:03AM

If all the income does is raise your taxes and you've seen when people will pay ANYTHING for some gold, you can consider it as "sleep good" insurance.

MrEureka · June 17, 2018 8:36AM

@Boosibri said:
What is the thesis for owning an asset class which does not generate cash flow in a period where interest rates will be surely rising. What must be true for gold to then become a good relative investment?

The thesis is that interest rates will not rise fast enough to keep the dollar strong and inflation in check.

I would also argue that the National debt does not have to be monetized to be inflationary. All that may be required is for the market to assume that the debt is not going to be repaid in the foreseeable future.

topstuf · June 17, 2018 8:47AM

We're lucky the "dollar" (haw) is the ...default.... int'l reserve currency.
The moment it's not, Katy bar the door.

As far as non interest bearing, I see no difference from a pile of bullion than a coin collection of any significance.

And I would NOT have only bullion without cash.

topstuf · June 17, 2018 8:53AM

When I was younger and more inclined to risk, I often made the internal argument about "return" on an investment.
Karl Denninger used to stress "return OF investment" rather than return ON investment.

I am now quite neutral on any brokerage traded assets.
I do not need the income and...with only SS and the ....meager.... IRA distributions from when I first "fell for the story" of the IRA concept, I no longer have ....INCOME...enough to even have to file a return. (They didn't have Roths)

It's fine with me. It was our (when my wife was alive).... plan all along.
Get the pile, protect the pile, live modestly, smile.

RogerB · June 17, 2018 9:15AM

@Boosibri said:
What is the thesis for owning an asset class which does not generate cash flow in a period where interest rates will be surely rising. What must be true for gold to then become a good relative investment?

Gold Standard era bankers did not like to hold gold in any form. It created expense and generated no income.

topstuf · June 17, 2018 9:19AM

@RogerB said:

@Boosibri said:
What is the thesis for owning an asset class which does not generate cash flow in a period where interest rates will be surely rising. What must be true for gold to then become a good relative investment?

Gold Standard ear bankers did not like to hold gold in any form. It created expense and generated no income.

If I had a bank, I wouldn't much care one way or the other about gold either. Too many ways to screw your way to wealth.

LanceNewmanOCC · June 18, 2018 6:19AM

.
wheres that ebay %15 coupon!
.

PocketArt · June 18, 2018 4:07PM

If .gov did it once, it could very well do it again. This is my concern about the yellow metal. Honestly, I'm not an expert; yet, my gut says stay clear. IDK- just something to think about. What would prevent this from happening again?

If gold bugs could persuade me otherwise...I might think twice?!?! What are your thoughts. Thanks!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

blitzdude · June 18, 2018 4:19PM

@PocketArt said:
If .gov did it once, it could very well do it again. This is my concern about the yellow metal. Honestly, I'm not an expert; yet, my gut says stay clear. IDK- just something to think about. What would prevent this from happening again?

If gold bugs could persuade me otherwise...I might think twice?!?! What are your thoughts. Thanks!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

Executive order this! I choose to remain free and not controlled by some fake fiat ponzi scheme. Come try to dig that shite outta my backyard. lulz

jmlanzaf · June 18, 2018 4:47PM

@Type2 said:
All the pro's are saying a grantee Recession in 2020 or 2021 not maybe or if there is going to be one, I can hold till then I'll just keep buying.

Recessions aren't good for PMs. Inflation is good for PMs. Most commodities drop in a recession due to decreased economic activity.

PocketArt · June 18, 2018 4:48PM

@blitzdude said:

@PocketArt said:
If .gov did it once, it could very well do it again. This is my concern about the yellow metal. Honestly, I'm not an expert; yet, my gut says stay clear. IDK- just something to think about. What would prevent this from happening again?

If gold bugs could persuade me otherwise...I might think twice?!?! What are your thoughts. Thanks!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

Executive order this! I choose to remain free and not controlled by some fake fiat ponzi scheme. Come try to dig that shite outta my backyard. lulz

With market fluctuations we are dealt with a drop of 2%, bc of interest rate tightening...I guess. What would occur with an Exec. Order on limiting the ownership of gold????

Pretty sure it could happen again. The whole of history "thing" tends to repeat...just like the mainstream "corporate" media parrots remind us in the short term.

Think for yourself, and I believe you do. That's the difference between parrots, and patriots.

jmlanzaf · June 18, 2018 4:48PM

@Boosibri said:
What is the thesis for owning an asset class which does not generate cash flow in a period where interest rates will be surely rising. What must be true for gold to then become a good relative investment?

Gold has almost never been a good "relative investment", but gold bugs don't care.

tradedollarnut · June 18, 2018 6:31PM

And...with tariffs on another $200B gold will take another big hit....until nuclear threats start getting made back and forth

oldgoldlover · June 18, 2018 8:39PM

If i were a trader i would be ready to go on offense but never grab a falling knife.

davidk · June 18, 2018 8:52PM

Gold is not an investment, gold is money. The correct debate frame is not gold vs equities, it’s gold vs imaginary fiat.

Warren Buffet gets the frame incorrect as well.

jmlanzaf · June 18, 2018 8:57PM

@davidk said:
Gold is not an investment, gold is money. The debate is not so much gold vs equities, it’s gold vs fiat.

That's what the gold bugs always say. But it is a specious argument. [pun intended.] I can also convert my equities into MORE gold or MORE fiat thanks to compound yields. If you've been sitting on gold for 30 years waiting to spend the money - you've LOST buying power, so it preserved exactly nothing.

Gold is NOT constant valued money. Gold is a commodity that fluctuates in price. The idea that gold has constant buying power has never been true at any time in human history.

topstuf · June 18, 2018 9:13PM

Guess who has no gold.

Boosibri · June 19, 2018 2:53AM

@davidk said:
Gold is not an investment, gold is money. The correct debate frame is not gold vs equities, it’s gold vs imaginary fiat.

Warren Buffet gets the frame incorrect as well.

He is so foolish with his $116B of that fiat crap in the bank.

TwoSides2aCoin · June 19, 2018 5:25AM

iPhones are worth more than silver and gold. Not too much value for the "I watch, too". Swimmers aren't sinking or drowning. And stackers are an exuberant lot.
Go figure.

Cougar1978 · June 19, 2018 6:17AM

I try to maintain a certain position in gold coins in case it does sky rocket.

jwitten · June 19, 2018 6:40AM

@TwoSides2aCoin said:
iPhones are worth more than silver and gold. Not too much value for the "I watch, too". Swimmers aren't sinking or drowning. And stackers are an exuberant lot.
Go figure.

Try selling your iphone after the next model comes out, and then try telling me it's worth more than gold.

davidk · June 19, 2018 7:00AM

@jmlanzaf said:

@davidk said:
Gold is not an investment, gold is money. The debate is not so much gold vs equities, it’s gold vs fiat.

That's what the gold bugs always say. But it is a specious argument. [pun intended.] I can also convert my equities into MORE gold or MORE fiat thanks to compound yields. If you've been sitting on gold for 30 years waiting to spend the money - you've LOST buying power, so it preserved exactly nothing.

Gold is NOT constant valued money. Gold is a commodity that fluctuates in price. The idea that gold has constant buying power has never been true at any time in human history.

If you've been sitting on CASH for 30 years waiting to spend the money - you've LOST buying power, so it preserved exactly nothing.

ctf_error_coins · June 19, 2018 7:05AM

@davidk said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@davidk said:
Gold is not an investment, gold is money. The debate is not so much gold vs equities, it’s gold vs fiat.

That's what the gold bugs always say. But it is a specious argument. [pun intended.] I can also convert my equities into MORE gold or MORE fiat thanks to compound yields. If you've been sitting on gold for 30 years waiting to spend the money - you've LOST buying power, so it preserved exactly nothing.

Gold is NOT constant valued money. Gold is a commodity that fluctuates in price. The idea that gold has constant buying power has never been true at any time in human history.

If you've been sitting on CASH for 30 years waiting to spend the money - you've LOST buying power, so it preserved exactly nothing.

Not if you saved for an iPhone ......

Cheyenne · June 19, 2018 7:21AM

I like diversification. I wouldn't want all my eggs in one basket! Sure, I have some gold, and some silver, too. But I also have cash, stocks, bonds, and will likely add some real estate in the next year or so, too.

jmlanzaf · June 19, 2018 7:42AM

@davidk said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@davidk said:
Gold is not an investment, gold is money. The debate is not so much gold vs equities, it’s gold vs fiat.

That's what the gold bugs always say. But it is a specious argument. [pun intended.] I can also convert my equities into MORE gold or MORE fiat thanks to compound yields. If you've been sitting on gold for 30 years waiting to spend the money - you've LOST buying power, so it preserved exactly nothing.

Gold is NOT constant valued money. Gold is a commodity that fluctuates in price. The idea that gold has constant buying power has never been true at any time in human history.

If you've been sitting on CASH for 30 years waiting to spend the money - you've LOST buying power, so it preserved exactly nothing.

Not cash - assets with actual yields. Cash is the same as gold - it doesn't compound with time.

NVU · June 19, 2018 7:43AM

Central Banks around the world have gold reserves, I dont’t see why not have some in your portfolios for protection. If you’re a savvy investor, you still can do that with your cash to grow your wealth. My point is, nothing is a 100% right or wrong, diversification is your friend.

coinpalice · June 19, 2018 7:51AM

i used to buy coins through coin world magazine, one of my 1st purchases was a ms-64 St Gaudens for 475. i don't let the pm market bother me, I've seen it all anyway

Type2 · June 19, 2018 7:58AM

@Cheyenne said:
I like diversification. I wouldn't want all my eggs in one basket! Sure, I have some gold, and some silver, too. But I also have cash, stocks, bonds, and will likely add some real estate in the next year or so, too.

I call this well rounded, I'm well rounded and it's a good place to be.

davidk · June 19, 2018 8:06AM

@jmlanzaf said:

@davidk said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@davidk said:
Gold is not an investment, gold is money. The debate is not so much gold vs equities, it’s gold vs fiat.

That's what the gold bugs always say. But it is a specious argument. [pun intended.] I can also convert my equities into MORE gold or MORE fiat thanks to compound yields. If you've been sitting on gold for 30 years waiting to spend the money - you've LOST buying power, so it preserved exactly nothing.

Gold is NOT constant valued money. Gold is a commodity that fluctuates in price. The idea that gold has constant buying power has never been true at any time in human history.

If you've been sitting on CASH for 30 years waiting to spend the money - you've LOST buying power, so it preserved exactly nothing.

Not cash - assets with actual yields. Cash is the same as gold - it doesn't compound with time.

You are comparing gold to equities. I'm comparing gold to cash. There is an important difference between the two.

Let's say that you have 100k in your 401k/Roth, and 30k in cash. I think a case can be made to have 10-20% (or more) of your 'cash' in gold/silver. I'm not advocating holding gold 100% in lieu of equities.

I would argue that cash is NOT the same as gold in that gold is not devalued by an ever expanding money supply enforced by the Federal Reserve.

jmlanzaf · June 19, 2018 8:32AM

@davidk said:

Let's say that you have 100k in your 401k/Roth, and 30k in cash. I think a case can be made to have 10-20% (or more) of your 'cash' in gold/silver. I'm not advocating holding gold 100% in lieu of equities.

I would argue that cash is NOT the same as gold in that gold is not devalued by an ever expanding money supply enforced by the Federal Reserve.

Understood. Gold is like cash in the context I framed it - no compounding returns.

But gold can actually devalue even faster than currency at times. Look at gold over the last 5 years or so, it has lost 30% of its value in a relatively low inflation environment.

I'm neither completely pro or anti-gold. But I would like some balance in the discussion. There is risk in holding gold that is possibly equal to or, at times, greater than holding cash.

Gold took big hit

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