(SHOW GRADES ARE IN) Long Beach Tears of Joy or Tears of Pain and Suffering?
Wabbit2313
Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
Show grading observations are posted below in a separate message.
Some of the coins from the Sotheby's auction will be making an appearance in front of the graders this week. Time to find out if paying up to two grades higher was wise.
If the graders are as cranky as they have been, there will be a river of tears, closely followed by the pit of misery. The old holder, the little sticker, and tons of money will all be gone.
For the record, the 5 coins I won are still here with me, actually just arriving today. I do have a bunch of non-Sotheby's coins there though.
I will pray for all of those coins, and mine. It might take the second coming though based on the prices paid.
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Comments
How did your other large submission go that you posted a while back about?
I have a US and World submission in at PCGS. Interested to see how my coins (and others who piggybacked) turn out.
I hope everything goes well.
@Wabbit2313.... We still did not see the results of your last submission... If you have this lot graded at the show, it may beat the lot you submitted.
Best of luck... hope you are happy with the results... Cheers, RickO
I have heard a few results.There will be little happiness round I. Its not Round I that really matters, now on the second time in, these coins will look a little different (a hidden finger print here, some grease, a dip, etc). That is so wrong. Hopefully PCGS will hold tight.
I am going to update that post also after this batch of show coins is done.
Well I can toss in my two cents from my submission that came back about 10 days ago. Sent in 19 coins. All but one had been cracked out of older NGC and PCGS holders because of issues like dip residue that had gone bad and needed to be cleaned up, or due to PVC residue that had made an appearance post grading.
I suspected the Pan Pac half would not straight grade and it didn't.
All of the silver were graded at the same grade except one that was one point lower.
The four gold pieces, all in rattlers, were previously graded MS60 except for the 1878 that was MS61.
Not sure if any of it relates to the price of tea in China, but that is how mine played out.
Good Luck, Wabbit!
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Good luck! I hope they turn out well for you.
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Best wishes. Hopefully they will not pull an Elmer Fudd and "kill the wabbit".
It's duck season.....
Wabbit season.
VG luck!
BHNC #203
One order already posted. Stay tuned.
Gonna get me a $50 Octagonal someday. Some. Day.
My YouTube Channel
They sure don't make 'em like that anymore...
Long Beach Show Grading:
Overall, grading was tight and I hope the crackout artists did not crack those OGH's from Sotheby's. They are not going up in grade right now, no way! A couple might slip through but not many.
Order #1 that posted Wednesday. It was bad. 2 Rattler CAC coins that easily are a grade higher, stayed the same. (They were nice jump money coins though) An OGH CAC went down a grade. A nice NGC Fatty stayed the same. An old ANA coin stayed the same.
All other orders posted today.
Order #2: I won't bore you with all the coins but we will call this one even-Steven. One good coin that should have gone up did, but 2 others dropped.
Order #3: Just one coin for reconsideration, CAC, stayed the same.
Order #4: Overall, a good order. A few came in where I wanted them to, and one head scratcher cleaned coin. I do know what a cleaned coin is so it will have to go back in sometime.
Order #5: Crossover order and became the money order. Some tough date Morgans crossed from old Anacs small holders, and a nice high grade NGC gold crossed, all at same grade. I bought these for far less than PCGS money.
In conclusion: It is a bad time to crack and send right now. It is also time to stop believing Rattlers and Fatty's are under-graded. By today's standards, they are not, and OGH coins are generally over-graded by the same standards. Coins graded from two to five years ago? Many will be an automatic downgrade if cracked.
So many opinions here are from those who never send coins in. You here them say, "by today's standards" all the time. That comment is such foolishness. From a dude (me) who sends in hundreds of coins, and at the expensive grading tiers, today's standards are equivalent to the old Rattler days.
God help the Sotheby's buyers.
Thanks for the analysis and sharing. It’s tough sleeding out there
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
When does the next CU earnings/revenue statement come out? I predict PCGS will start to loosen a couple months before if revenues are down.
It bugs me when I hear the terms "loose" and "tight" when it comes to grading, but I guess it is the reality..
I once cracked an OGH and sent in raw ($20 Liberty) and it came back a grade lower. Indeed it happens.
My YouTube Channel
Thanks for the analysis. I am actually glad to hear grading is tightening - it may firm up what seems to be a still falling market.
Thanks for the detailed report/analysis.... Cheers, RickO
After everyone moaned and groaned about gradeflation for months on end, they finally are tightening things up.
Now they should alter their inserts so you can easily differentiate the "gradeflated" coins.
How long before people are fussing en masse about how tight things are?
Better yet, learn to grade and buy the coin. If it's overgraded - regardless of what kind of holder it's in - pass. I find it's better to let someone THINK it will upgrade, and let them take the risk, unless it is obvious (know how to grade and what each TPG service is looking for.
It's called a green sticker!
I don't have a problem grading, but if a coin was a 67, 3 years ago, a 66, 3 months ago, and a 65 today, I have a problem, and so do many others!
Good info, thanks!
I'm not buying it but if they are finally tightening standards well all I can say is it's about time. Gradeflation has been a problem for many years now.
That's when you send it to CAC, get the gold sticker and sell it for 67+ money.
Collector, occasional seller
Sorry to hear but I appreciate the report.
It sounds like they've really tightened up.
What a shame to lose all those old holders.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Good eye Wabbit
So after PCGS did you crack them and send them across the street?
Hoard the keys.
Well, since they were show graded yesterday, NO!
Well, since they were show graded yesterday, NO!
I don't want my coins in NGC holders, and it is too much work to get them in an NGC holder and then go for a cross.
I can't be the only one who wants to see some of Wabbits subbed coins, right?
I have seen Wabbit's coins (spectacular stuff!) and I've worked with him on submissions. I generally agree with his grading and his perception of PCGS's strictness today.
Recently I cracked an 1814 bust half in an early PCGS AU58 holder. It came back "cleaned, XF details". Seriously?
Lance.
I would like to believe that that is not true.
Thanks for the terrific post!
What we're seeing here is there seems to be some hard to define variability in the average grade for the same coin from month to month or year to year.
I would hope these fluctuations don't correlate with corporate earnings goals.
Me too.
That's some quality, real time info in your "conclusion".
Tyvm.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
Dang! I have about 5 dozen coins (mostly CBH and 20c) at PCGS right now. Now y'all have me worried!
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
It used to be getting a CAC Gold sticker on a new slab was rare. If standards have tightened as much as it seems then CAC Gold stickers should be seen more often on brand new slabs don't you suppose?
I'd send in a large group of coins to them if I could make it conditional on their getting "my" grades, which no grading service does.
I concur. I submitted/ dropped off a group for him recently and found him totally dialed in.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@lkeigwin @Justacommeman
Thanks for the kind words fella's!
Lance and I shared orders at FUN where he was roasted with a 1 out of 31 success rate if memory serves. You have all seen his coins.......enough said.
Mark dropped coins off for me in the Big Easy. 20 reconsiderations, most were CAC, I was asking for "ANY" which means even a "plus." I did get 2 pluses.
I am wondering if the graders are thumbing their nose at CAC these days? CAC is really telling them they are either right or wrong, and those guys don't like to be told they are wrong!
In all reality, a gold sticker means the coin is 1 1/2 grades under-graded minimum. The coins I have seen with GOLD usually look 2 grades under. They are tough to get.
In the Sotheby's recent auction, out of the 108 MS Morgans, all in old holders, (most OGH) not a single one went Gold CAC. The 1895 Proof in a Fatty did.
Many of the coins sold for at least 1 grade higher. (A few much higher) To those buyers, rent yourself a ground floor apartment, QUICK!
We submitted a few hundred coins for clients at Long Beach - and grading was about as expected. Nice coins got good grades. Borderline didn't.
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
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Just curious is show grading usually more strict ? With grading sets not accessible would the tough ones grade well or fall short ? Is there a chance of contamination in the holder ? Are they the same graders and verifiers as normally used ? I would be careful with my proof coppers wouldn't you !