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Jimnight
Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭
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Jimnight
Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭
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I like it. With typical top four TPGS grading (naked eye), I'll guess it is probably a 69 (one miniscule mark) with a 70 label.
PS What's going on under the "ES" of "States?"
69/70 A gorgeous piece.
@Insider2 .... I just checked the coin and it is totally clean ... nothing under or around the "ES" of States. It must be a reflection of something. I just added a new app so I can grid and crop my photos ... so most likely it my inexperience using the app. Sorry about that
It does look virtually perfect in the photos. I could see it in a 70 holder.
Is there 70+ ? Beautiful coin!
I like it a lot. Not one of the series I follow but it looks like it could be in a 70 holder to me.
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
70
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
I would give it a 68
The photos are too overexposed to make any grading guess.
I think it's a 70. Nice coin!
My YouTube Channel
69+
This.
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
70
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
@EXOJUNKIE been a long day already. Nice Coin. Silver Matte finish
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
Probably 70 @ NGC (would probably be ~69 @ PCGS) Nice coin.....
69
the 2017 enhanced Kennedy half also has a S mintmark, and are non-proof. most are SP-70
NGC 69/70 ... PCGS 68/69 ...
there where 7 -69's to every 1- 70 in this series, so odds are it's a 69, can't tell by picture
In an NGC holder, I'd guess it is a 70.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
I'm thinking ms69.
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
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Congrats. Missed it by half a point, I still wonder how it would have done with our host.
@Smudge
I watched and waited for months until this one showed up...most all had small marks and spots on them. I believe it's a true 70 no matter who would have graded it. You have a good eye along with the others.
@Jimnight I started grading coins as though they belonged to someone I dislike, not that I dislike you or even know you. I find that it helps remove the incintive to over grade, especially my coins, and improves my accuracy. Your coin is flawess to my eye, but sometimes tpgs are very tough on coins, but I have often been surprised and thought they were too generous. They are pros and I am not so I still have a lot to learn, but we all do.
8> @Smudge said:
It's so hard to get a 70 on anything from PCGS (but I have had a few) so I'd expect a 69, although this could be one of the few to make it all the way. Hard to get that close on a number between 69 and 70 from a photo.
@CCGGG
I agree.
Wow, "sweet", congratulations !!!
That’s a Crazy Clean Coin there bro, Congrats!
It is a beautiful looking coin.
Thanks for sharing.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
Very, very nice coin..... I would keep it as is... unless you must have it in a PCGS holder.... If so, be prepared to drop a grade...I am not saying it definitely will, just that it is a strong possibility. Cheers, RickO
@OPA said: "NGC 69/70 ... PCGS 68/69 ..."
Please explain this post. The way I read it, if the coin is a perfect 70, PCGS will grade it 69! From my limited experience, both services are a little loose with the idea of "perfection." You can throw all four TPGS's into the same boat and there is a POSSIBLE reason for this. The services have a group of young guys and gals (?) grading moderns - mostly silver eagles. Fortunately, this is a coin that would probably be graded by one of the long-time graders.
As for looser grading for bulk moderns, there can be a difference which cannot be helped as under normal conditions, no long-time professional grader is going to "blow-their-eyes-out" grading a monster box. Therefore, I'll bet the OP's coin is graded on a tight scale. I saw two tiny dark spots which probably are not on the coin.
@coinpalice said: "There where 7 -69's to every 1- 70 in this series, so odds are it's a 69, can't tell by picture."
Please explain where the 7 to 1 ratio comes from. Did you just count the pop reports or are you a professional grader? Thanks.
PS I see two dark spots on the "N" and "E" of "United." Are they hits? That would knock the coin down to SP-69 for me. Hopefully, just something in the image.
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Sorry, but this is a good lesson for all of us. The letters around the rims of these large silver coins are susceptible to this type of hit. We can find these coins graded as 70's. The minus is this coin is not perfect. The plus is that as long as it has a SP-70 label, for all intents and purposes it is! Coins as this are found in ICG, ANACS, NGC, and PCGS slabs. When buying a coin graded 70, you must be watchful. Remember that tiny Mint-made defects such as lint marks are often allowed to be on a "Perfect-as-made-coin." You can decide what your personal standard is. Beating the dead horse: "Buy the coin not the label."
I don't know if this is allowed on CU so I'll let the mods decide to delete it or not.
This is a soon to be published coin grading column I wrote for Numismatic News that may be relevant here. Folks must learn how to examine a coin properly:
NNG418
Every so often, on one of the Internet coin forums, a long-time member will post an image of a rider beating a dead horse as a response to a topic that that has been discussed many times previously. As a rider myself, dead horses should not be a laughing matter; yet I’ll admit to being amused each time one of these images is posted. While I cannot animate one of those images for this column, I’m going to beat one of those horses here myself.
I’ve just come off a streak of teaching three weekend coin grading seminars in a row for Florida Coin Clubs. Don’t feel sorry for me as teaching grading and authentication is one of my favorite things to do. In fact, I always considered teaching at the ANA’s Summer Seminar in Colorado to be a paid vacation! Free room and board, old friends, and beautiful scenery.
The “dead horse” I’ll write about in this column involves the proper way to examine a coin. This is one of the first subjects I cover in my class lectures. I talk about lighting, magnification, and the way to hold a coin so nothing on it should be missed. Nevertheless, during the hands-on part of my instruction, I am constantly frustrated by what I see. It confirms for me that old bad habits are very hard to break as some students seem to ignore my instruction.
Let’s get back to basics. It’s no secret that professional graders work in a darkened room with one incandescent light source on an organized desk. Everything in its usual place. This provides a consistent set of conditions day in and day out that none of us have at a coin show. Each grader has developed a specific personal method of looking at a coin so that no part of the coin is missed. Some tell me they divide each side into quarters. It is frustrating to me when students don’t look at the “big picture” the coin is presenting. I tell my students that when given a coin – slabbed or not – the first thing they should do is to look at it with just their eyes! There is a reason for this. With experience, they will be able to tell if the coin is original and come very close to its “commercial” grade barring anything they may discover using magnification!
Next, let’s talk about hand lenses. I try to limit my group classes to under sixteen students so they get more one-on-one attention. Over the past three weeks, I’ve had forty-two students, both men and women. I can say positively, that there were over forty different types of magnifiers in use not counting the two students who had small digital microscopes hooked to a computer. The hand magnifiers ranged from four inches in diameter to little “pee shooters” with powers ranging from 3X to at least 16X. Unfortunately, 3X is too low and in my opinion anything over 7X is too high for grading. What you should look for in a hand lens is something that lets you see a coin at least the size of a half dollar all at once while letting in as much light as possible. My 7X lets me view the complete side of a Morgan dollar at one time.
Aside from too much magnification, most beginners examine their coins incorrectly. Watch most folks (including dealers and advanced collectors) pick up a coin and stare at it with a magnifying glass. I’ll leave out the other things I’ve seen and just explain the proper way to use ANY hand lens. Bring the magnifier up to your eye (in good light so turn your ball cap around backwards) and then move the coin closer to the hand lens until it is in sharp focus. Then, move the coin in the light! That means you must rotate the coin slowly. As you turn it, tip it back and forth at the same time. Most either rarely do this or fail to view all the sections of a coin which is one of the reasons they often miss a problem.
Try this at home. Take a new Lincoln cent and make a very light scratch in its surface with a pin. Don’t press too hard. Now tip and rotate it in the light while viewing it and watch how you can make the scratch disappear by holding it just right. That mark you made is probably at least 20X larger than a typical hairline from improper cleaning! Even those folks using a 10X to 20X hand lens will not detect many of these defects unless they get the coin “just right” in the light.
One of the cheapest ways to improve your grading skills, bottom-line, and collecting enjoyment is to take a grading course. I offer individual or group classes, clubs around the country have programs at their meetings, and the ANA has a traveling class in addition to the summer classes in Colorado.
Now go and scratch that cent...
@Insider2... I've learned many lessons from you..this lesson so far being the most note worthy.
I'm thinking I might be better off if I just quit collecting coins while I'm ahead.
Lol. DON'T YOU DARE! Besides, collecting is in a person's genes. You probably will not be able to quit!
Just keep acquiring more and more knowledge. Numismatics is a never-ending pursuit that is enjoyable and will keep your mind young and sharp. Additionally, collecting may be profitable in the long run as the more you know vs the other guy...
@Insider2 great post!
My YouTube Channel
I don't see a mark on the coin and guessed 70 to myself before seeing the grade....
...you'll just have to trust me.
Nice coin!
p.s. there is no substitute -- not forums, books, or grading classes -- for the experience of seeing as many graded coins as you can in-hand. IMO, of course.
@Insider2 .... Great post - a lesson in grading that will help many people. I like the idea of a 7X glass... been looking for one like that... I have loupes and other magnifiers (i.e. fingerprint)... but have not found a good one at that magnification that is of a good size. I will continue my search... Cheers, RickO
Great post, Insider, and thank you. I have always had a tendency to go straight to my 7x loupe and your post is a reminder of bad habits. When I took my first ANA grading course ( I think in the late 90s) and was first able to knowledgeably observe rotating luster, it was like a flood of new information hit my senses. I have since taken 6 or 7 ANA courses, most of which have been grading/advanced grading related courses. It simply is the best investment in time and money that can be made for anyone who plans on spending more than a thousand dollars on coins in the next 10 years. Plus, Colorado Springs is a great vacation. I'm a big fan and I'm going back.
As for this coin, my initial guess was 69, but I am not a great ultra-high grade grader, and I have never been able to grade with confidence from a pic.
Tom
Just did an internet search. NO LUCK! IMO, B&L made the best ever beginners hand lens for many years. It had two lenses 3X & 4X which combined would give 7X. As of two years ago, the Chinese were making a knock-off that seemed to be just as good. Apparently, no more.
Now there is a 4X-5X-9X replacement. I have one somewhere but don't use it as it lets in less light and has a much smaller field of view. I like to see the entire coin at the same time.
The magnifier is not as important as the person using it (proper technique) and the light. I tell students that even my microscope is NO GOOD if used in a dark closet.
@Insider2 ....Thanks, I had the same results. I am checking antique shops, they will occasionally have the larger glass magnifiers of about 7X....I will find one eventually. Cheers, RickO