Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
Believe me when I say I have my own Rosen horror story. I was told I won an auction for a dream set, sent the check, and my check came back, with a letter of apology from Alan. At least he said he was sorry. Still, taken together, the wins were much more than the losses.
As I wrote about Alan, I try to keep an attitude of gratitude.
---- Indiana Jones (Brian Powell)
Sorry if I missed this part, but can you elaborate? Did you win an auction from Rosen and then he backed out of the sale? Thanks.
I didn't know all this about Mr Mint. Growing up in the midwest, I never got to meet him, but I have that card of him pictured above autographed. Not sure where I got it. I may have sent him a letter asking for an autograph back in the day.
If Mr Mint would have had the persona of someone like Mike Wolfe from American Pickers, he would have been legendary. I'm sure you all know of Mike, where on his picks he connects with the person selling and really wants to hear the back story on the items and collections. He seeks to preserve that story and history. And rather than low ball offers when a collector doesn't know the value, he offers fair prices.
Believe me when I say I have my own Rosen horror story. I was told I won an auction for a dream set, sent the check, and my check came back, with a letter of apology from Alan. At least he said he was sorry. Still, taken together, the wins were much more than the losses.
As I wrote about Alan, I try to keep an attitude of gratitude.
---- Indiana Jones (Brian Powell)
Sorry if I missed this part, but can you elaborate? Did you win an auction from Rosen and then he backed out of the sale? Thanks.
Adam, in either late 1988, or early 1989, among the choice items Mr. Mint was offering in his quarterly Sports Collectors Digest phone auctions was a complete set of the rare 1960 Home Run Derby cards, in NM-MT condition. At the end of the auction, I was told I won it over the phone by Alan Rosen himself. He calculated what I would need to send him, and it was pretty simple, since there was no buyer's premium then, and shipping was free. That one really, really hurt, because I felt in my heart that it was the chance of a lifetime for me to get that hysterically rare set. It was not that it would never be offered again, but by the time is WAS, the value of the set had spiked so high it was now out of my league. That set was mine.
Oh, by the by, the year I stated for the Derby set is correct. I proved that in my E-book on a CD, NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN. It's either a brave man, or someone ludicrous, to suggest all the guides and graded cards have the year of a set wrong at this point in time, but it is what it is, and the actual year of issue was indeed 1960.
Thanks for asking, Adam, though it still hurts and nothing can be done about it. I had to let the matter go a long time ago.
I packed up a bunch of my stuff as I'm moving soon, but I found the letter I got from Rosen back in 93 or 94, banning me from future auctions. When I find it again I'll post a pic. I bid on an 86/87 Fleer BK set that he claimed each card was perfectly centered; let's just say he should have called himself Mr. Ex-Mint. I sent the set back with a letter, explaining what was wrong with each card. He wrote back, telling me something like, "I've been getting too much of that Hawaiian sun."
I read his book SO many times. As a kid, he was one of my heroes. It wasn't until a few years ago that I found out more about who he was as a person. That was a massive turn off, however he was quite a fascinating character. I had the pleasure of exchanging emails with him a few times - he seemed fine to me, but then again, it was only a couple of sentences
Tanner Jones, Author of Confessions of a Baseball Card Addict - Now Available on Amazon!
@BALROG Gone ..Leukemia....but still causing quite the stir from the grave...evidently he drove several thousand collectors into therapy after treating them very, very poorly all over the US territory.
@BGS_Buyer said:
In regard to the "1952 Find"
other the the video interview where he TALKS about it
is there any other documentation, proof, or what have you
that the story actually took place ?
I have no doubt that 1952 cards can still be stumbled across
I'm just asking if there was anything other than that video
that HE stumbled across them
I saw the guy in Green Bay Video
some parking lot video
but nothing about that
From what I know, he didn't grade his cards
so there wasn't ant pedigree label
or the "Mr. Mint 52' Find" label as far as I know
@BGS_Buyer said:
In regard to the "1952 Find"
other the the video interview where he TALKS about it
is there any other documentation, proof, or what have you
that the story actually took place ?
If I had a card collection that was worth say around $1,000 wholesale...I'd rather take $1,000 from an obnoxious Mr Mint, than $500 from some "smiling, friendly, personable" card dealer or anyone else trying to lowball me.
Show me the money...the rest I couldn't care less about.
@stevek said:
If I had a card collection that was worth say around $1,000 wholesale...I'd rather take $1,000 from an obnoxious Mr Mint, than $500 from some "smiling, friendly, personable" card dealer or anyone else trying to lowball me.
Show me the money...the rest I couldn't care less about.
maybe I have this all wrong
but you're thinking that it would have been Mr Mint giving you top dollar ?
@stevek said:
If I had a card collection that was worth say around $1,000 wholesale...I'd rather take $1,000 from an obnoxious Mr Mint, than $500 from some "smiling, friendly, personable" card dealer or anyone else trying to lowball me.
Show me the money...the rest I couldn't care less about.
maybe I have this all wrong
but you're thinking that it would have been Mr Mint giving you top dollar ?
I wouldn't definitively be thinking that at all. However Mr Mint bought and sold an awful lot of cards over his lifetime, so whatever he was offering, a lot of people certainly took it. And I'm sure there were times when Mr Mint was offering top dollar over anyone else.
I mentioned before that Mr Mint was a mobile pawn shop. No pawn shop pays top dollar, but a lot of people sell to pawn shops for quick cash.
The seller in that video didn't seem like he was in desperate need of quick cash. If that seller only invited Mr Mint to bid on his collection, and took that first offer, and later found out that he should have invited others to come in and bid because Mr Mint cleverly lowballed him, then that is the fault of the seller not Mr Mint.
@stevek said:
If I had a card collection that was worth say around $1,000 wholesale...I'd rather take $1,000 from an obnoxious Mr Mint, than $500 from some "smiling, friendly, personable" card dealer or anyone else trying to lowball me.
Show me the money...the rest I couldn't care less about.
maybe I have this all wrong
but you're thinking that it would have been Mr Mint giving you top dollar ?
I wouldn't definitively be thinking that at all. However Mr Mint bought and sold an awful lot of cards over his lifetime, so whatever he was offering, a lot of people certainly took it. And I'm sure there were times when Mr Mint was offering top dollar over anyone else.
I mentioned before that Mr Mint was a mobile pawn shop. No pawn shop pays top dollar, but a lot of people sell to pawn shops for quick cash.
The seller in that video didn't seem like he was in desperate need of quick cash. If that seller only invited Mr Mint to bid on his collection, and took that first offer, and later found out that he should have invited others to come in and bid because Mr Mint cleverly lowballed him, then that is the fault of the seller not Mr Mint.
Which is why it's great that we have the internet. It's a lot harder to rip people off these days than it was back in the day. I'm not saying Mr. Mint specifically ripped people off but I did see many people get ripped off by dealers back in the day. They didn't know what they had and had no easy way to find out. I was shocked more than once at card shows in the 80s where an old lady would walk up with a cigar box full of vintage cards including Mantle's and Williams' only to get $25 back from the dealer.
@BGS_Buyer said:
In regard to the "1952 Find"
other the the video interview where he TALKS about it
is there any other documentation, proof, or what have you
that the story actually took place ?
yeah, well - the story is pretty much the text version of the video where he "talks" about his find
looking at the 52 Mantle Pop report
In my opinion, it doesn't match up to all the gem Mantles he found
no photos ?
no video for such a find ?
sorry, some people have an overall reputation
that you have to be skeptical
I don't see proof
reading the story & peoples quotes, you see a lot of
"I believe"
"I thought it came from them"
"probably came from them
I'm not defending Rosen (that's the last thing I would do) but this find was from the 1980s. No cell phone cameras, no digital cameras, and you remember what those camcorders used to look like and weigh? The last thing any dealer was thinking of was documenting their buys and travels. I would kill to have pics of me set up at shows in high school and documenting some of the biggest deals I've bought, but none of us were thinking like that back in the day.
I'm an advocate of not believing everything you read (people have questioned the truthfulness in our ads and Facebook posts) but sometimes you have to give us a pass when it can't or wasn't documented.
@stevek said:
If I had a card collection that was worth say around $1,000 wholesale...I'd rather take $1,000 from an obnoxious Mr Mint, than $500 from some "smiling, friendly, personable" card dealer or anyone else trying to lowball me.
Show me the money...the rest I couldn't care less about.
maybe I have this all wrong
but you're thinking that it would have been Mr Mint giving you top dollar ?
I wouldn't definitively be thinking that at all. However Mr Mint bought and sold an awful lot of cards over his lifetime, so whatever he was offering, a lot of people certainly took it. And I'm sure there were times when Mr Mint was offering top dollar over anyone else.
I mentioned before that Mr Mint was a mobile pawn shop. No pawn shop pays top dollar, but a lot of people sell to pawn shops for quick cash.
The seller in that video didn't seem like he was in desperate need of quick cash. If that seller only invited Mr Mint to bid on his collection, and took that first offer, and later found out that he should have invited others to come in and bid because Mr Mint cleverly lowballed him, then that is the fault of the seller not Mr Mint.
Which is why it's great that we have the internet. It's a lot harder to rip people off these days than it was back in the day. I'm not saying Mr. Mint specifically ripped people off but I did see many people get ripped off by dealers back in the day. They didn't know what they had and had no easy way to find out. I was shocked more than once at card shows in the 80s where an old lady would walk up with a cigar box full of vintage cards including Mantle's and Williams' only to get $25 back from the dealer.
You're right...especially when a seller doesn't understand how "condition" can exponentially increase the value of a card. A rip off would be something like a card dealer looking at a NM card, telling the seller it's been "played with" so it's automatically a VG card, showing them a book VG price and basically conning them into selling at that price.
I remember Rosen from the Strongsville Ohio shows. I had a few dealings with him over the years, usually unopened material. I know his reputation but I always found him fair. I remember one of the shows at Strongsville, I walked up to his table and he had just purchased two 1976 Topps baseball unopened rack cases. I wanted them but he wouldn't sell them, he said he was saving them for his auction, I looked but never saw them offered. He was a giant in the hobby but as has been said, he rubbed a lot of people the wring way.
I'm not defending Rosen (that's the last thing I would do) but this find was from the 1980s. No cell phone cameras, no digital cameras, and you remember what those camcorders used to look like and weigh? The last thing any dealer was thinking of was documenting their buys and travels. I would kill to have pics of me set up at shows in high school and documenting some of the biggest deals I've bought, but none of us were thinking like that back in the day.
I'm an advocate of not believing everything you read (people have questioned the truthfulness in our ads and Facebook posts) but sometimes you have to give us a pass when it can't or wasn't documented.
If I had such a find
and trying so hard to make my name the biggest out there
I would have rented a camera
or borrowed from some place
never believed it, never will
and all the very few pop report mantles are from his find ???
right
I'm not defending Rosen (that's the last thing I would do) but this find was from the 1980s. No cell phone cameras, no digital cameras, and you remember what those camcorders used to look like and weigh? The last thing any dealer was thinking of was documenting their buys and travels. I would kill to have pics of me set up at shows in high school and documenting some of the biggest deals I've bought, but none of us were thinking like that back in the day.
I'm an advocate of not believing everything you read (people have questioned the truthfulness in our ads and Facebook posts) but sometimes you have to give us a pass when it can't or wasn't documented.
If I had such a find
and trying so hard to make my name the biggest out there
I would have rented a camera
or borrowed from some place
never believed it, never will
and all the very few pop report mantles are from his find ???
right
I'm not saying you have to believe it. I'm saying we didn't walk around back then with the ability to take a pic or shoot a video like we do in this decade. If you're old enough to remember, then you know. If you're not, then just take my word for it. A home video camera - around the time Rosen bought this deal - was like carrying a toddler on your shoulder, and probably cost as much as one of those Mantles.
I don't believe that the majority off the high grade high numbers are from his find. A substantial amount - yes, but there have been numerous smaller finds since then.
I'm not saying you have to believe it. I'm saying we didn't walk around back then with the ability to take a pic or shoot a video like we do in this decade. If you're old enough to remember, then you know. If you're not, then just take my word for it. A home video camera - around the time Rosen bought this deal - was like carrying a toddler on your shoulder, and probably cost as much as one of those Mantles.
I don't believe that the majority off the high grade high numbers are from his find. A substantial amount - yes, but there have been numerous smaller finds since then.
to settle the video thing, yes I know how big it was
I was old enough to know
Ok, how about this
anybody here, or anybody here know someone who bought these 52's from him ?
not just a story of how I heard someone buy them
@maddux69 said:
I am sure that there are those around that have purchased from the find, but they value their privacy more than looking to placate you.
ok
privacy ?
I bought so and so cards ?
but no privacy is needed with all those stories of finds, how much it was bought for, and the killing on the profits
sorry if I like to think, and it bothers others
just call me angry I guess
@maddux69 said:
I am sure that there are those around that have purchased from the find, but they value their privacy more than looking to placate you.
ok
privacy ?
I bought so and so cards ?
but no privacy is needed with all those stories of finds, how much it was bought for, and the killing on the profits
sorry if I like to think, and it bothers others
just call me angry I guess
What makes you think any of those collectors are members of this forum and if they were, willing to post here?
The fact that it wasn't captured on video back in the 1980s has absolutely zero effect on the veracity of the stories.
Anyone involved in the hobby back then knew who he was and very likely either found him or would be found by him to close a deal.
I wish there were some video of card shows and deals from back in the 80s. Would be cool to see.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Here's a copy of what is documented at PSA of the Rosen "Find:"
Pulp Non-Fiction
The Famous 1952 Topps Baseball Card Find
It was spring 1986, a Saturday afternoon, and Alan Rosen lounged in his New Jersey home watching TV. The phone rang and that call would ultimately transport him from relaxing with ABC's Wide World of Sports into what one could call an episode of "The Wild World of Sports Cards."
On the line: David Espinola, a Boston-area lumber company forklift operator. Espinola said he had recently talked with a truck driver, making a delivery at work, who had several top condition 1952 Topps baseball cards, for possible sale. Was Rosen interested?
Skepticism anchored Rosen's thoughts of the claim. He had heard similar stories before from others; they were usually more mirage than oasis. Even so, he jotted down the Massachusetts man's info.
Ashburn Reese Wynn
Rutherford Wilhelm
Soon after that conversation Rosen spoke with Ted Lodge, "the guy" who said he had a few of each of the 1952 Topps high series cards. With virtually each additional call that took place between the two men over the next handful of days, the number of cards kept increasing. Rosen finally asked the key question: "How many Mantles?" The reply, a surprising: "about 30."
Wheeling and dealing cards for a few years at this point, Rosen (a.k.a. Mr. Mint) still possessed a certain level of disbelief about the supposed accumulation, but his instincts said "check it out."
Gathering money for the trip to Quincy, MA, included borrowing several thousand dollars from another dealer friend. With six figures of cash in hand, Rosen decided to take along an armed policeman for security.
About ten miles south of Boston, Rosen, Brian Morris (another New Jersey dealer), the cop and the money pulled up to the house, a circa 1900 dwelling, that Lodge had inherited from his dad.
** Have I Got a Deal for You**
Spartan perhaps best described the house's interior. "It had very little furniture," said Rosen, "except a table, a couple of chairs and a wraparound china closet with leaded-glass doors." The floor had a sunburst-effect pattern.
Lodge bent down and opened up one of the china closet doors, reached in and pulled out a silver tray stacked with 1952 Topps baseball cards facing down; he placed the display in front of Rosen at the table.
"Number 302 was showing on one of the stacks," said Rosen, "and I went straight for the Mantles." A few handfuls later he spotted the magic card number, 311, staring right at him.
Mays Mantle Robinson
"I picked up a stack of about 30 cards and they were all Mantles, with some others still face down." Rosen picked up more cards with Mick's visage. "About 42 beautiful Mantles," Rosen recalled. The adrenaline pumped through the dealer's system with such intensity it caused his hands to shake.
After Rosen looked through the stacks, Lodge uttered, "Would you like to see the rest of the cards?"
"The rest of the cards?"
They walked into the kitchen and there sat the Topps case the cards had been housed in for 34 years. The cardboard case apparently sat in Lodge's dad's attic for decades, likely forgotten for much of that time.
Unlike the cards themselves, the details are a little fuzzy on where Lodge's deceased father had obtained the cards. Some think that he either worked for the business the address label is from (The Toys Division of the Graton & Knight Company in Worcester, MA), or the establishment the case was addressed to (Globe Sporting Goods MFG via Boston).
Rosen said there was packaging near the case with advertising verbiage that read something like: "Hey Kids, with every new GRAYCO product, get three new shiny Topps baseball cards." Apparently the cards helped promote the sale of baseballs, bats and gloves. The 1952 cards were giveaways, throw-ins.
"I stuck my hand in the case and scooped up some [cards]," said Rosen. "The cards at the bottom were a mess." Here "mess" meant off-condition Mantles, Campanellas and such. "Give me $10,000 for the rest of them," Lodge said.
At this point Rosen's adrenaline meter was exploding, like the Chicago White Sox scoreboard after a home team home run. "The Million Dollar Dealer," who had sold various items over the years, from coins to calculators and antiques to typewriters, decided to get some fresh air. He brought some cards with him to examine in the sunlight.
Blowup of box:
"I smelled them and looked at them again more closely," he noted. Rosen said he thought they had to be reproductions. "It was too good to be true," he said to himself of the vibrantly color-rich cards with Ginsu knife-like corners.
Rosen went back into the kitchen. "Then I looked at the case and it said 1952 Topps on it," he said. Aside from some occasional centering issues, most of the cards were in stunning condition. The dealer, known as being brash at times but never dull, was now a believer.
The New Jersey resident had hit pay dirt, but it was going to cost him. That day, for around 5,500 cards, about 75 percent of which were high numbers, Rosen said he paid upwards of $125,000, including a finder's fee and for the cop. Espinola arrived after the deal was done.
On the return trip Rosen had some buyer's remorse. He wondered if he bit off more than even he, "the buying machine," could chew.
When he arrived home after the deal, he put the cards in a safe. He went to bed but couldn't sleep.
"I stayed up all night and sorted the cards," he remembered. Completing Sortapalooza, Rosen had 18 runs of cards #251 to #407, which includes the mid-series that starts shortly before Willie Mays' first Topps card (#261), through the high numbers, beginning with Mantle, and including other Hall of Famers, as in the set-ender, Eddie Mathews' rookie.
Step Right Up
"Runs" started at $12,000. "I sold nine runs the first day," said Rosen. Day two the price jumped to $18,000 per run and three batches sold. On day three, a pair of "runs" left the table at a cool $20,000 apiece.
The original asking price for a sharp Mantle was $3,500. Initially, there were no takers at that level, but then word of "the find" spread throughout the hobby. "Real centered ones sold," he said. Four went at $3,500 each.
Ten off-centered Mantles were sold for $10,000 in one lot.
Rosen saved the nicest 1952 Topps Mantle card for himself. "I kept the best one and had it on my desk for about a year." He later sold it.
The thousands of duplicates of various cards in the deal also took "a couple of months" to sell, said Rosen, now 67. He grossed about $475,000 in the transaction.
Campanella Black Morgan
Marshall Fogel, however, did not pick through the leftovers from the 1952 Topps discovery – quite the opposite.
Fogel, #4 on the PSA Set Registry for the Current and All-Time Finest 1952 Topps baseball set, remembered he and another collector, Jason Nester, were two of the most aggressive in "battling to get the cards from that find."
"Those that were centered were very desirable. We weren't the only competitors, but we were the most aggressive," said Fogel. The uber-collector jumped on the find "almost immediately."
"This was one of the greatest finds in hobby history," said Fogel. "I owned two [PSA MT] 9s of Mantle from that find, and I sold those to help pay for my PSA [GEM-MT] 10 Mantle."
"I would say I have about 50 cards [in my collection] from the find, a lot of those are commons. I believe my Jackie Robinson [PSA 9] is from the find," he said.
What did Fogel pay for the cards from the Quincy, MA, deal? "About $400 to $2,000 each," he said.
"They were right out of the pack; they were pristine – the gloss, the sheen," noted dealer Bill Goodwin, some 27 years after "The Find." "To this day you can tell the difference [with those cards]."
Goodwin thought two of the three PSA 10 Mantles came from the hoard. "Probably most of the NM-MT 8s and 9s [in the hobby] came out of that find," he said. Goodwin estimated the majority of NM 7 commons that were off-center came from that purchase, as well.
Crunching Some Numbers
"Most cards had 30 to 40 examples, but the first three high numbers, Mantle (#311), Jackie Robinson (#312) and Bobby Thomson (#313), had about 73 to 75 each," recalled Rosen. "Forty-two of the Mantles were gorgeous."
There were even more Mays cards in the batch. "I had a million of them [about 187, actually]," said Rosen. "I believe Mays is a triple print that year." The Mays' took about six months to sell.
"[John] Rutherford (#320) is really the toughest card in the set," said Rosen. "Many of the Rutherfords have a paper wrinkle right through his forehead."
The Dodger showed up 12 times in the find, while two of his teammates, also high numbers, Roy Campanella and Pee Wee Reese, surfaced only 13 times each. "There weren't many of Reese and Campanella," said Rosen, "but the ones that existed were beautiful." The Mathews rookie also made 13 strong appearances in the hoard.
Dickey Nuxhall Mathews
The PSA Population numbers show about 300 Rutherford's, with only 13 in PSA 8 – its highest grade. Only Bob Chipman (#388), with a PSA Population of around 280, can beat that – eleven PSA 8s and one PSA 9 with a qualifier.
While discussing "The Find," Goodwin said, "It was a fascinating story; one of those stories that dealers dream about – and that came true."
For most sports card dealers and collectors alike, it would be safe to say that upon first hearing of the 1952 Topps "find" they too looked like many of the Rutherford cards from that discovery – with a wrinkle right through their forehead. The card obtained the crease from the factory; the people received theirs from the story's incredible facts.
The thrill of victory, and the agony of the crease...
Box
On the Case
And what ever became of the cardboard case that once housed all the cards that Rosen bought in "The Find"?
Rosen kept it for several years and then sold it to a collector. Earlier this year Adam Martin, the CEO of Dave and Adam's Card World, bought the case from the collector.
"It's a very unassuming box," said Martin, "but it's an iconic piece of sports card lore."
Martin figures three PSA 10 Mantle's may have been discovered in that cardboard cradle "and the bulk of the true GEM-MT 1952 Topps cards came from that case."
Martin plans to display the case at this year's National Convention.
View the set in the PSA Set Registry.
Doug Koztoski is a frequent contributor to SMR. Please note that the Population Report figures Set Registry rankings quoted are those as of June 2013.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@Stone193 said:
Would be nice to see pics of those "buys" for sure.
Here's one that was pretty darn cool with Mark Murphy aka "Baseball Card Kid"
Might be hard for someone to believe "all" those packs were still available?
And here's the sell price similar to this buy - this is one of those - "I wish I had picked one up" but in 1990 something - that was a bunch of dough.
I remember the 1996 national in Aneheim where Murphy was selling 1952 packs for $1500 each or $2500 for two. I also remember him displaying mint, pack pulled commons for sale at the booth. Oh to go back in time with a wallet full of cash!
John, I remember that 52 Topps pack find very well. What would one of those packs go for now graded PSA 8? 50K or more..
I believe a PSA 10 Pafko #1 was pulled from one of those packs, as well.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
While I believe the Mr. Mint 1952 find, I will say, that just on this post we have seen lots of facts that the Murphy pack find happened, but haven't seen much proof for Mr. Mint's find other than an empty case.
I'm not saying you have to believe it. I'm saying we didn't walk around back then with the ability to take a pic or shoot a video like we do in this decade. If you're old enough to remember, then you know. If you're not, then just take my word for it. A home video camera - around the time Rosen bought this deal - was like carrying a toddler on your shoulder, and probably cost as much as one of those Mantles.
I don't believe that the majority off the high grade high numbers are from his find. A substantial amount - yes, but there have been numerous smaller finds since then.
to settle the video thing, yes I know how big it was
I was old enough to know
Ok, how about this
anybody here, or anybody here know someone who bought these 52's from him ?
not just a story of how I heard someone buy them
Yes, I talked with someone who bought 2 of the Mantles from Mr. Rosen's find. In late '86 and into early '87 I ran a full-page ad in SCD and sold a lot of good stuff. Anyway, this customer calls me and we're chatting and he mentioned that he bought a pair of the gorgeous "mint" 1952 Topps Mickey Mantles from Alan Rosen that came from his find. Seems the man had two children, and he bought one for each of them for their future. While I wish I could quote his every word, the gist of what he said has stayed with me all these years. Obviously, it's not something you hear every day. As a Mickey Mantle collector myself, it was the type of thing that stirred my imagination, and I would tend not to forget it.
So, calm down, oh doubtful one. The famous Mr. Mint find of a 1952 Topps case of mixed semi-high and high numbers really happened. I just wish I had taken a little cash I could have gotten my hands on and bought one, too. Somewhere, among the few issues and special pages of SCD I kept from those days, is the original SCD article and Mr. Mint's first announcement / ad of his treasure trove of those amazing Topps. I guess they were so distinctly fresh and mint-appearing, compared to what you would typically see at any show. Which, of course, explains why cards from finds are so special.
For whatever reason, the man saved this case of Topps once-belonging to his father, who was in the sporting good trade. But then, that might be misinformation, too. I read it, and there was an understandable reason why the man's father had the case. As I vaguely recall, the sporting goods firm would give a customer 5 free Topps cards if they bought a new baseball mitt.
Various companies had a trading card promotion that would offer cards or coins as free prizes with the purchase of their product, in order to goose sales for the company. The parent company would contract with a printing firm to create those free prizes, unless it was their usual printing company, if the free prize cards were printed right on their package. Once in awhile, people who worked at the printer, or the factory that ran the promotion, would keep some of the prizes as souvenirs before the whole bunch of leftovers were thrown away, to clear the deck for the next job on the printer's agenda, or when the given company's promotion was concluded.
Sometimes the parent company would keep the leftover prizes, and sell and/or give them out to kids or adults who wrote to them. That is precisely what the John Morrell Company did with all their left over 1954 Red Heart Dog Food cards. They even sold a whole slew of them to one of the early card collector mail order firms, Wholesale Cards Co. of New York / New Jersey. I bought a set from Wholesale in 1969 for about $4-5. The cards were brand new, essentially mint, though not technically of course.
To bring this back to the OP, Mr. Mint was always interested in a find of old unsold stock of gum cards, or what were once free prizes in a food product. We have him to thank for buying them, and bringing them into the hobby. They always made big hobby news in SCD, and would create a furor when he brought them to a show, and collectors who specialized in that set would go nuts over them, because they were seeing cards in uncommonly beautiful mint condition, instead of the usual crumbums they had to settle for. In time, these exotic pieces became the ultra-high grade specimens graded by PSA, or another reputable authenticator.
Like it or not, then you would have to buy them from The Mint Man, or win the rare item in one of his auctions, which brings back 95% of the content of this thread.
As I said, I have my horror story, too. I don't even like to think about that beautiful 1960 Home Run Derby set. Alan Rosen had them on display for show at the fall 88 Philly show in which I attended. They were breathtaking---so brand new, clean, and unharmed! I know what find they came from. The original owner granted me a priceless interview, which was the basis for my chapter on the Home Run Derby cards.
really matters nothing to me not what people choose to believe
no one really knows all the facts, regardless of who says what
I thought I brought up good points
just funny how all the Mint bashers
turn right around, and glorify him again
he strikes from the grave !
very funny
and by the way
this whole "FIND" term, really needs to slow down
if he actually bought any from this guy
he didn't FIND them
he was called
"hey, I have them - come and get them"
the guy with the "Find" was the seller
he just took the credit
a true "find" would be the swamp collection, or that old lady with the card from the 1800's
........... you should see all my "finds" that I found listed on eBay
@BGS_Buyer said:
really matters nothing to me not what people choose to believe
no one really knows all the facts, regardless of who says what
I thought I brought up good points
just funny how all the Mint bashers
turn right around, and glorify him again
he strikes from the grave !
very funny
and by the way
this whole "FIND" term, really needs to slow down
if he actually bought any from this guy
he didn't FIND them
he was called
"hey, I have them - come and get them"
the guy with the "Find" was the seller
he just took the credit
a true "find" would be the swamp collection, or that old lady with the card from the 1800's
........... you should see all my "finds" that I found listed on eBay
It's always a pleasure to meet a someone who's "genuinely" enjoying our hobby.
@BGS relax brother it’s all good. Time for a lowenbreau and get a slight tilt.
Mr. Mint was a clown who never saw a camera he didn’t like. He did know how to bully I mean market really well. He knew how to pray on old ladies and people who did not know what they had. Even the educated he treated like garbage and their collections worse.
The only reason he is known and we are even talking about him now is a result of his bullying I mean marketing and his loud, loud loud voice. Many of us can have that voice, however a little respect goes a long way. He never learned that lesson.
As for the finds, they are out there still I’m convinced. Timing is everything in life. Does BBCX have some finds and others?? We all do, not on the scale of 52 Topps, however someday.
Interesting read, but I'm sure his numbers were exaggerated. Anyone else notice that Rosen states he had completed 18 runs of cards from #251-407, but then later says there were only 12 Rutherfords and 13 Reese and Campanellas? How did he complete 18 runs with only 12-13 of those cards?
Comments
Here are some comments about Rosen from 2005:
http://www.net54baseball.com/archive/index.php?t-79521.html
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
Sorry if I missed this part, but can you elaborate? Did you win an auction from Rosen and then he backed out of the sale? Thanks.
buying O-Pee-Chee (OPC) baseball
I didn't know all this about Mr Mint. Growing up in the midwest, I never got to meet him, but I have that card of him pictured above autographed. Not sure where I got it. I may have sent him a letter asking for an autograph back in the day.
If Mr Mint would have had the persona of someone like Mike Wolfe from American Pickers, he would have been legendary. I'm sure you all know of Mike, where on his picks he connects with the person selling and really wants to hear the back story on the items and collections. He seeks to preserve that story and history. And rather than low ball offers when a collector doesn't know the value, he offers fair prices.
Adam, in either late 1988, or early 1989, among the choice items Mr. Mint was offering in his quarterly Sports Collectors Digest phone auctions was a complete set of the rare 1960 Home Run Derby cards, in NM-MT condition. At the end of the auction, I was told I won it over the phone by Alan Rosen himself. He calculated what I would need to send him, and it was pretty simple, since there was no buyer's premium then, and shipping was free. That one really, really hurt, because I felt in my heart that it was the chance of a lifetime for me to get that hysterically rare set. It was not that it would never be offered again, but by the time is WAS, the value of the set had spiked so high it was now out of my league. That set was mine.
Oh, by the by, the year I stated for the Derby set is correct. I proved that in my E-book on a CD, NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN. It's either a brave man, or someone ludicrous, to suggest all the guides and graded cards have the year of a set wrong at this point in time, but it is what it is, and the actual year of issue was indeed 1960.
Thanks for asking, Adam, though it still hurts and nothing can be done about it. I had to let the matter go a long time ago.
Take care, bro. ---- Indiana Jones (Brian Powell)
Or right here on our boards
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/136389/why-do-people-on-this-board-hate-mr-mint
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
That about sums it up the best.
That was fantastic! Thank you for sharing.
I dealt with him once at a large Houston show in the late 80s/early 90s. That was more than enough. He was a jerk.
I packed up a bunch of my stuff as I'm moving soon, but I found the letter I got from Rosen back in 93 or 94, banning me from future auctions. When I find it again I'll post a pic. I bid on an 86/87 Fleer BK set that he claimed each card was perfectly centered; let's just say he should have called himself Mr. Ex-Mint. I sent the set back with a letter, explaining what was wrong with each card. He wrote back, telling me something like, "I've been getting too much of that Hawaiian sun."
Reed Kasaoka
Buyer, Baseball Card Exchange
cell: (808) 372-1974
email: ReedBBCE@gmail.com
website: www.bbce.com
eBay stores: bbcexchange, bbcexchange2, bbcexchange3, bbcexchange4
It’s extraordinary to me that there is even a place to remember MR. Mint when clearly 90% of folks would like to wipe him out of their subconscious.
I read his book SO many times. As a kid, he was one of my heroes. It wasn't until a few years ago that I found out more about who he was as a person. That was a massive turn off, however he was quite a fascinating character. I had the pleasure of exchanging emails with him a few times - he seemed fine to me, but then again, it was only a couple of sentences
@BALROG Gone ..Leukemia....but still causing quite the stir from the grave...evidently he drove several thousand collectors into therapy after treating them very, very poorly all over the US territory.
https://www.psacard.com/articles/articleview/7813/pulp-non-fiction-famous-1952-topps-baseball-find
yeah, well - the story is pretty much the text version of the video where he "talks" about his find
looking at the 52 Mantle Pop report
In my opinion, it doesn't match up to all the gem Mantles he found
no photos ?
no video for such a find ?
sorry, some people have an overall reputation
that you have to be skeptical
I don't see proof
reading the story & peoples quotes, you see a lot of
"I believe"
"I thought it came from them"
"probably came from them
If I had a card collection that was worth say around $1,000 wholesale...I'd rather take $1,000 from an obnoxious Mr Mint, than $500 from some "smiling, friendly, personable" card dealer or anyone else trying to lowball me.
Show me the money...the rest I couldn't care less about.
maybe I have this all wrong
but you're thinking that it would have been Mr Mint giving you top dollar ?
I wouldn't definitively be thinking that at all. However Mr Mint bought and sold an awful lot of cards over his lifetime, so whatever he was offering, a lot of people certainly took it. And I'm sure there were times when Mr Mint was offering top dollar over anyone else.
I mentioned before that Mr Mint was a mobile pawn shop. No pawn shop pays top dollar, but a lot of people sell to pawn shops for quick cash.
The seller in that video didn't seem like he was in desperate need of quick cash. If that seller only invited Mr Mint to bid on his collection, and took that first offer, and later found out that he should have invited others to come in and bid because Mr Mint cleverly lowballed him, then that is the fault of the seller not Mr Mint.
Which is why it's great that we have the internet. It's a lot harder to rip people off these days than it was back in the day. I'm not saying Mr. Mint specifically ripped people off but I did see many people get ripped off by dealers back in the day. They didn't know what they had and had no easy way to find out. I was shocked more than once at card shows in the 80s where an old lady would walk up with a cigar box full of vintage cards including Mantle's and Williams' only to get $25 back from the dealer.
I'm not defending Rosen (that's the last thing I would do) but this find was from the 1980s. No cell phone cameras, no digital cameras, and you remember what those camcorders used to look like and weigh? The last thing any dealer was thinking of was documenting their buys and travels. I would kill to have pics of me set up at shows in high school and documenting some of the biggest deals I've bought, but none of us were thinking like that back in the day.
I'm an advocate of not believing everything you read (people have questioned the truthfulness in our ads and Facebook posts) but sometimes you have to give us a pass when it can't or wasn't documented.
Reed Kasaoka
Buyer, Baseball Card Exchange
cell: (808) 372-1974
email: ReedBBCE@gmail.com
website: www.bbce.com
eBay stores: bbcexchange, bbcexchange2, bbcexchange3, bbcexchange4
You're right...especially when a seller doesn't understand how "condition" can exponentially increase the value of a card. A rip off would be something like a card dealer looking at a NM card, telling the seller it's been "played with" so it's automatically a VG card, showing them a book VG price and basically conning them into selling at that price.
Would be nice to see pics of those "buys" for sure.
Here's one that was pretty darn cool with Mark Murphy aka "Baseball Card Kid"
Might be hard for someone to believe "all" those packs were still available?
And here's the sell price similar to this buy - this is one of those - "I wish I had picked one up" but in 1990 something - that was a bunch of dough.
I remember Rosen from the Strongsville Ohio shows. I had a few dealings with him over the years, usually unopened material. I know his reputation but I always found him fair. I remember one of the shows at Strongsville, I walked up to his table and he had just purchased two 1976 Topps baseball unopened rack cases. I wanted them but he wouldn't sell them, he said he was saving them for his auction, I looked but never saw them offered. He was a giant in the hobby but as has been said, he rubbed a lot of people the wring way.
If I had such a find
and trying so hard to make my name the biggest out there
I would have rented a camera
or borrowed from some place
never believed it, never will
and all the very few pop report mantles are from his find ???
right
The stacks of money next to the cards I think are $20 bills. Today...it would be $100 bills and bigger stacks.
I'm not saying you have to believe it. I'm saying we didn't walk around back then with the ability to take a pic or shoot a video like we do in this decade. If you're old enough to remember, then you know. If you're not, then just take my word for it. A home video camera - around the time Rosen bought this deal - was like carrying a toddler on your shoulder, and probably cost as much as one of those Mantles.
I don't believe that the majority off the high grade high numbers are from his find. A substantial amount - yes, but there have been numerous smaller finds since then.
Reed Kasaoka
Buyer, Baseball Card Exchange
cell: (808) 372-1974
email: ReedBBCE@gmail.com
website: www.bbce.com
eBay stores: bbcexchange, bbcexchange2, bbcexchange3, bbcexchange4
seems like i didnt miss much; rip
to settle the video thing, yes I know how big it was
I was old enough to know
Ok, how about this
anybody here, or anybody here know someone who bought these 52's from him ?
not just a story of how I heard someone buy them
I am sure that there are those around that have purchased from the find, but they value their privacy more than looking to placate you.
eBay Store
Greg Maddux #1 Master SetGreg Maddux #2 Basic Set
ok
privacy ?
I bought so and so cards ?
but no privacy is needed with all those stories of finds, how much it was bought for, and the killing on the profits
sorry if I like to think, and it bothers others
just call me angry I guess
What makes you think any of those collectors are members of this forum and if they were, willing to post here?
The fact that it wasn't captured on video back in the 1980s has absolutely zero effect on the veracity of the stories.
Anyone involved in the hobby back then knew who he was and very likely either found him or would be found by him to close a deal.
I wish there were some video of card shows and deals from back in the 80s. Would be cool to see.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
its all hearsay
eBay Store
Greg Maddux #1 Master SetGreg Maddux #2 Basic Set
Here's a copy of what is documented at PSA of the Rosen "Find:"
Pulp Non-Fiction
The Famous 1952 Topps Baseball Card Find
It was spring 1986, a Saturday afternoon, and Alan Rosen lounged in his New Jersey home watching TV. The phone rang and that call would ultimately transport him from relaxing with ABC's Wide World of Sports into what one could call an episode of "The Wild World of Sports Cards."
On the line: David Espinola, a Boston-area lumber company forklift operator. Espinola said he had recently talked with a truck driver, making a delivery at work, who had several top condition 1952 Topps baseball cards, for possible sale. Was Rosen interested?
Skepticism anchored Rosen's thoughts of the claim. He had heard similar stories before from others; they were usually more mirage than oasis. Even so, he jotted down the Massachusetts man's info.
Ashburn Reese Wynn
Rutherford Wilhelm
Soon after that conversation Rosen spoke with Ted Lodge, "the guy" who said he had a few of each of the 1952 Topps high series cards. With virtually each additional call that took place between the two men over the next handful of days, the number of cards kept increasing. Rosen finally asked the key question: "How many Mantles?" The reply, a surprising: "about 30."
Wheeling and dealing cards for a few years at this point, Rosen (a.k.a. Mr. Mint) still possessed a certain level of disbelief about the supposed accumulation, but his instincts said "check it out."
Gathering money for the trip to Quincy, MA, included borrowing several thousand dollars from another dealer friend. With six figures of cash in hand, Rosen decided to take along an armed policeman for security.
About ten miles south of Boston, Rosen, Brian Morris (another New Jersey dealer), the cop and the money pulled up to the house, a circa 1900 dwelling, that Lodge had inherited from his dad.
** Have I Got a Deal for You**
Spartan perhaps best described the house's interior. "It had very little furniture," said Rosen, "except a table, a couple of chairs and a wraparound china closet with leaded-glass doors." The floor had a sunburst-effect pattern.
Lodge bent down and opened up one of the china closet doors, reached in and pulled out a silver tray stacked with 1952 Topps baseball cards facing down; he placed the display in front of Rosen at the table.
"Number 302 was showing on one of the stacks," said Rosen, "and I went straight for the Mantles." A few handfuls later he spotted the magic card number, 311, staring right at him.
Mays Mantle Robinson
"I picked up a stack of about 30 cards and they were all Mantles, with some others still face down." Rosen picked up more cards with Mick's visage. "About 42 beautiful Mantles," Rosen recalled. The adrenaline pumped through the dealer's system with such intensity it caused his hands to shake.
After Rosen looked through the stacks, Lodge uttered, "Would you like to see the rest of the cards?"
"The rest of the cards?"
They walked into the kitchen and there sat the Topps case the cards had been housed in for 34 years. The cardboard case apparently sat in Lodge's dad's attic for decades, likely forgotten for much of that time.
Unlike the cards themselves, the details are a little fuzzy on where Lodge's deceased father had obtained the cards. Some think that he either worked for the business the address label is from (The Toys Division of the Graton & Knight Company in Worcester, MA), or the establishment the case was addressed to (Globe Sporting Goods MFG via Boston).
Rosen said there was packaging near the case with advertising verbiage that read something like: "Hey Kids, with every new GRAYCO product, get three new shiny Topps baseball cards." Apparently the cards helped promote the sale of baseballs, bats and gloves. The 1952 cards were giveaways, throw-ins.
"I stuck my hand in the case and scooped up some [cards]," said Rosen. "The cards at the bottom were a mess." Here "mess" meant off-condition Mantles, Campanellas and such. "Give me $10,000 for the rest of them," Lodge said.
At this point Rosen's adrenaline meter was exploding, like the Chicago White Sox scoreboard after a home team home run. "The Million Dollar Dealer," who had sold various items over the years, from coins to calculators and antiques to typewriters, decided to get some fresh air. He brought some cards with him to examine in the sunlight.
Blowup of box:
"I smelled them and looked at them again more closely," he noted. Rosen said he thought they had to be reproductions. "It was too good to be true," he said to himself of the vibrantly color-rich cards with Ginsu knife-like corners.
Rosen went back into the kitchen. "Then I looked at the case and it said 1952 Topps on it," he said. Aside from some occasional centering issues, most of the cards were in stunning condition. The dealer, known as being brash at times but never dull, was now a believer.
The New Jersey resident had hit pay dirt, but it was going to cost him. That day, for around 5,500 cards, about 75 percent of which were high numbers, Rosen said he paid upwards of $125,000, including a finder's fee and for the cop. Espinola arrived after the deal was done.
On the return trip Rosen had some buyer's remorse. He wondered if he bit off more than even he, "the buying machine," could chew.
When he arrived home after the deal, he put the cards in a safe. He went to bed but couldn't sleep.
"I stayed up all night and sorted the cards," he remembered. Completing Sortapalooza, Rosen had 18 runs of cards #251 to #407, which includes the mid-series that starts shortly before Willie Mays' first Topps card (#261), through the high numbers, beginning with Mantle, and including other Hall of Famers, as in the set-ender, Eddie Mathews' rookie.
Step Right Up
"Runs" started at $12,000. "I sold nine runs the first day," said Rosen. Day two the price jumped to $18,000 per run and three batches sold. On day three, a pair of "runs" left the table at a cool $20,000 apiece.
The original asking price for a sharp Mantle was $3,500. Initially, there were no takers at that level, but then word of "the find" spread throughout the hobby. "Real centered ones sold," he said. Four went at $3,500 each.
Ten off-centered Mantles were sold for $10,000 in one lot.
Rosen saved the nicest 1952 Topps Mantle card for himself. "I kept the best one and had it on my desk for about a year." He later sold it.
The thousands of duplicates of various cards in the deal also took "a couple of months" to sell, said Rosen, now 67. He grossed about $475,000 in the transaction.
Campanella Black Morgan
Marshall Fogel, however, did not pick through the leftovers from the 1952 Topps discovery – quite the opposite.
Fogel, #4 on the PSA Set Registry for the Current and All-Time Finest 1952 Topps baseball set, remembered he and another collector, Jason Nester, were two of the most aggressive in "battling to get the cards from that find."
"Those that were centered were very desirable. We weren't the only competitors, but we were the most aggressive," said Fogel. The uber-collector jumped on the find "almost immediately."
"This was one of the greatest finds in hobby history," said Fogel. "I owned two [PSA MT] 9s of Mantle from that find, and I sold those to help pay for my PSA [GEM-MT] 10 Mantle."
"I would say I have about 50 cards [in my collection] from the find, a lot of those are commons. I believe my Jackie Robinson [PSA 9] is from the find," he said.
What did Fogel pay for the cards from the Quincy, MA, deal? "About $400 to $2,000 each," he said.
"They were right out of the pack; they were pristine – the gloss, the sheen," noted dealer Bill Goodwin, some 27 years after "The Find." "To this day you can tell the difference [with those cards]."
Goodwin thought two of the three PSA 10 Mantles came from the hoard. "Probably most of the NM-MT 8s and 9s [in the hobby] came out of that find," he said. Goodwin estimated the majority of NM 7 commons that were off-center came from that purchase, as well.
Crunching Some Numbers
"Most cards had 30 to 40 examples, but the first three high numbers, Mantle (#311), Jackie Robinson (#312) and Bobby Thomson (#313), had about 73 to 75 each," recalled Rosen. "Forty-two of the Mantles were gorgeous."
There were even more Mays cards in the batch. "I had a million of them [about 187, actually]," said Rosen. "I believe Mays is a triple print that year." The Mays' took about six months to sell.
"[John] Rutherford (#320) is really the toughest card in the set," said Rosen. "Many of the Rutherfords have a paper wrinkle right through his forehead."
The Dodger showed up 12 times in the find, while two of his teammates, also high numbers, Roy Campanella and Pee Wee Reese, surfaced only 13 times each. "There weren't many of Reese and Campanella," said Rosen, "but the ones that existed were beautiful." The Mathews rookie also made 13 strong appearances in the hoard.
Dickey Nuxhall Mathews
The PSA Population numbers show about 300 Rutherford's, with only 13 in PSA 8 – its highest grade. Only Bob Chipman (#388), with a PSA Population of around 280, can beat that – eleven PSA 8s and one PSA 9 with a qualifier.
While discussing "The Find," Goodwin said, "It was a fascinating story; one of those stories that dealers dream about – and that came true."
For most sports card dealers and collectors alike, it would be safe to say that upon first hearing of the 1952 Topps "find" they too looked like many of the Rutherford cards from that discovery – with a wrinkle right through their forehead. The card obtained the crease from the factory; the people received theirs from the story's incredible facts.
The thrill of victory, and the agony of the crease...
Box
On the Case
And what ever became of the cardboard case that once housed all the cards that Rosen bought in "The Find"?
Rosen kept it for several years and then sold it to a collector. Earlier this year Adam Martin, the CEO of Dave and Adam's Card World, bought the case from the collector.
"It's a very unassuming box," said Martin, "but it's an iconic piece of sports card lore."
Martin figures three PSA 10 Mantle's may have been discovered in that cardboard cradle "and the bulk of the true GEM-MT 1952 Topps cards came from that case."
Martin plans to display the case at this year's National Convention.
View the set in the PSA Set Registry.
Doug Koztoski is a frequent contributor to SMR. Please note that the Population Report figures Set Registry rankings quoted are those as of June 2013.
Thanks for posting that detailed account, Mike.
That's a lot more than hearsay.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
That's literally the article I posted that was being questioned above.
I remember the 1996 national in Aneheim where Murphy was selling 1952 packs for $1500 each or $2500 for two. I also remember him displaying mint, pack pulled commons for sale at the booth. Oh to go back in time with a wallet full of cash!
John, I remember that 52 Topps pack find very well. What would one of those packs go for now graded PSA 8? 50K or more..
I believe a PSA 10 Pafko #1 was pulled from one of those packs, as well.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
Oh my. That's cool.
While I believe the Mr. Mint 1952 find, I will say, that just on this post we have seen lots of facts that the Murphy pack find happened, but haven't seen much proof for Mr. Mint's find other than an empty case.
>
Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
Yes, I talked with someone who bought 2 of the Mantles from Mr. Rosen's find. In late '86 and into early '87 I ran a full-page ad in SCD and sold a lot of good stuff. Anyway, this customer calls me and we're chatting and he mentioned that he bought a pair of the gorgeous "mint" 1952 Topps Mickey Mantles from Alan Rosen that came from his find. Seems the man had two children, and he bought one for each of them for their future. While I wish I could quote his every word, the gist of what he said has stayed with me all these years. Obviously, it's not something you hear every day. As a Mickey Mantle collector myself, it was the type of thing that stirred my imagination, and I would tend not to forget it.
So, calm down, oh doubtful one. The famous Mr. Mint find of a 1952 Topps case of mixed semi-high and high numbers really happened. I just wish I had taken a little cash I could have gotten my hands on and bought one, too. Somewhere, among the few issues and special pages of SCD I kept from those days, is the original SCD article and Mr. Mint's first announcement / ad of his treasure trove of those amazing Topps. I guess they were so distinctly fresh and mint-appearing, compared to what you would typically see at any show. Which, of course, explains why cards from finds are so special.
For whatever reason, the man saved this case of Topps once-belonging to his father, who was in the sporting good trade. But then, that might be misinformation, too. I read it, and there was an understandable reason why the man's father had the case. As I vaguely recall, the sporting goods firm would give a customer 5 free Topps cards if they bought a new baseball mitt.
Various companies had a trading card promotion that would offer cards or coins as free prizes with the purchase of their product, in order to goose sales for the company. The parent company would contract with a printing firm to create those free prizes, unless it was their usual printing company, if the free prize cards were printed right on their package. Once in awhile, people who worked at the printer, or the factory that ran the promotion, would keep some of the prizes as souvenirs before the whole bunch of leftovers were thrown away, to clear the deck for the next job on the printer's agenda, or when the given company's promotion was concluded.
Sometimes the parent company would keep the leftover prizes, and sell and/or give them out to kids or adults who wrote to them. That is precisely what the John Morrell Company did with all their left over 1954 Red Heart Dog Food cards. They even sold a whole slew of them to one of the early card collector mail order firms, Wholesale Cards Co. of New York / New Jersey. I bought a set from Wholesale in 1969 for about $4-5. The cards were brand new, essentially mint, though not technically of course.
To bring this back to the OP, Mr. Mint was always interested in a find of old unsold stock of gum cards, or what were once free prizes in a food product. We have him to thank for buying them, and bringing them into the hobby. They always made big hobby news in SCD, and would create a furor when he brought them to a show, and collectors who specialized in that set would go nuts over them, because they were seeing cards in uncommonly beautiful mint condition, instead of the usual crumbums they had to settle for. In time, these exotic pieces became the ultra-high grade specimens graded by PSA, or another reputable authenticator.
Like it or not, then you would have to buy them from The Mint Man, or win the rare item in one of his auctions, which brings back 95% of the content of this thread.
As I said, I have my horror story, too. I don't even like to think about that beautiful 1960 Home Run Derby set. Alan Rosen had them on display for show at the fall 88 Philly show in which I attended. They were breathtaking---so brand new, clean, and unharmed! I know what find they came from. The original owner granted me a priceless interview, which was the basis for my chapter on the Home Run Derby cards.
--- Indiana Jones (Brian Powell)
really matters nothing to me not what people choose to believe
no one really knows all the facts, regardless of who says what
I thought I brought up good points
just funny how all the Mint bashers
turn right around, and glorify him again
he strikes from the grave !
very funny
and by the way
this whole "FIND" term, really needs to slow down
if he actually bought any from this guy
he didn't FIND them
he was called
"hey, I have them - come and get them"
the guy with the "Find" was the seller
he just took the credit
a true "find" would be the swamp collection, or that old lady with the card from the 1800's
........... you should see all my "finds" that I found listed on eBay
It's always a pleasure to meet a someone who's "genuinely" enjoying our hobby.
"OUR" ???
I didn't realize you and whoever had ownership rights
You tried hard, and that's all you came up with ?
weak
@BGS relax brother it’s all good. Time for a lowenbreau and get a slight tilt.
Mr. Mint was a clown who never saw a camera he didn’t like. He did know how to bully I mean market really well. He knew how to pray on old ladies and people who did not know what they had. Even the educated he treated like garbage and their collections worse.
The only reason he is known and we are even talking about him now is a result of his bullying I mean marketing and his loud, loud loud voice. Many of us can have that voice, however a little respect goes a long way. He never learned that lesson.
As for the finds, they are out there still I’m convinced. Timing is everything in life. Does BBCX have some finds and others?? We all do, not on the scale of 52 Topps, however someday.
sounds like i didnt miss much by avoiding Mr. Mint at shows... i bought a few things from larry fritsch though
Interesting read, but I'm sure his numbers were exaggerated. Anyone else notice that Rosen states he had completed 18 runs of cards from #251-407, but then later says there were only 12 Rutherfords and 13 Reese and Campanellas? How did he complete 18 runs with only 12-13 of those cards?
Would of loved to see some sports card show videos of him "in action".