Remembering Mr. Mint
PSARich
Posts: 532 ✭✭✭
Those of us who were somewhat serious collectors in the 1980s-90s no doubt remember Alan "Mr. Mint" Rosen. He is probably best remembered for his self-promotion as the greatest buyer and seller of sports cards, always having thousands of dollars laid out on his dealer table to entice sellers. (It seemed his table was always the first one collectors would see when they entered a card show) More than anyone, he put forth the idea of high grade sports cards as a true investment and found his way onto many national television shows. He also is famous for the 1952 Topps find in 1986 that resulted in at least 3 dozen high grade Mantle #311 cards as well as loads of high number mint cards from the same set.
Well, Mr. Mint passed away about a year ago and as I was cleaning out some old stuff the other day, I found a signed copy of "Mr. Mint's Insider's Guide to Investing in Baseball Cards". Glancing through it, I realized how that book impacted me as a collector. I had highlighted many of Mr. Mint's "Maxims" and realized that they drove my collecting in a positive way. Here are a few I highlighted and have lived by over the years that helped make me both a successful collector and investor as it turned out.
-"Never fall in love with anything you've bought...be prepared to disown it for the right price at anytime." I follow the market closely and determined a couple years ago the time was right to sell all of my partial PSA 9 sets from the 1960s and 70s so I consigned them to an auction house. I hit a good time and returned quite a profit on many thousands of mint cards. This also allowed me to be a serious collector of a few 1950s sets I enjoy the most.
-"Think quality, not quantity". That more than anything else drove my collecting habits and I believe it to be the best advice I ever followed.
-"Condition, condition, condition". Same as above, when possible buy NM to Mint cards. When you sell the only debate will be the price.
-"60-40 is the acceptable cutoff for centering." I follow this maxim nearly always, with a few exceptions for tough to find centered items. I believe that the visual presentation of the card impacts its value.
-"Get to know dealers you trust on a personal basis". You can avoid many issues if you know and trust the people you buy from.
-"Some of the best buys at card shows take place just when they open and during the last few hours." I have found this to be very true. I can't tell you how many of my offers were rejected on Saturday but accepted on Sunday.
-"You will not lose money when you buy high grade HOF players' baseball cards". True, most of the time for me.
"Always have an ungraded card removed from its holder and learn how to inspect it for flaws before purchase...don't forget the back!" I have saved myself from making many mistakes by following this advice. This has been especially true when evaluating the backs, (glue, wax, surface tears, pencil, ink, etc.)
What was Mr. Mint's most flawed maxim? He was totally against third party grading as it would "artificially and unfairly inflate the prices of top quality cards...you will pay for grading and overpay for the card." Rosen thought grading was an attempt at the impossible and would ruin the hobby. He was right that it drove up the value of high grade cards but he probably lost a lot of $$$ as a non-participant.
Anyway, just some reflection on earlier times and a man who could be a pain in the behind to deal with. Yet, I found him very colorful and knowledgeable if you were willing to listen as he loved an audience. I believe the hobby is indebted to him for drawing attention to the value of sports collectibles back when this was a growing hobby and market place.
Comments
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
Agreed on all fronts and did meet him several times. He was however a world class jerk and treated people’s collections and people in general very poorly. Someone please post the video
Not one thing I liked about the man.
You did not like his Hawaiian shirts ? As memorable as Levi’s top hats
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
Wish he could have bought some kindness and class. He had neither.
Just watched all the way thru to the payment,that was a pretty dk move throwing the guys autographed jersey on top of the oil pan on the floor.
I don't know anything about vintage,was his prices per set fair? I was trying figure out around when this was filmed and the mention of Eli Manning had to have put in the past 14-15 years. I could just imagine how much fun it would have been to look thru all those sets.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Son got this auto'ed in the early 90s.
Did not care for the guy but do agree with Rich that he was "colorful" and did do some good for the hobby with respect to giving it a "spotlight."
At the same time, and I did actually have a conversation, I met Alan Hager - the creator of the Arrowhead holder that PSA uses today and the 10 point system of grading.
Whether anyone likes or respects these individuals? Is a personal thing IMO.
But, the fact that they "benchmarked" our hobby is not in dispute.
Major lowball offers, not fair at all even for this timeframe. Really took advantage of this guy. I could only imagine how he treated and lowballed with the cameras not rolling.
Rich--great and well written piece--nicely done!!
I thought some sounded pretty low. I didn't like how he manhandled all those pages but I guess he did pay for them.
All I know is if I was that guy Paul I wouldn't want a video of some guy handing me $80k in cash with the IRS lurking out there.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
How did the ole buggar bite the dust? At what age?
Just to add to my story..... He died at age 70 from leukemia. He mentioned in his book that he was able to swing these deals because very few dealers in the 1980s had the resources to make offers for extensive and valuable collections. They would want to cherry pick the best cards only while he would buy it all. Therefore he could get tons of material at low prices because others couldn't come up with the amount of money needed, even though his offers were certainly low. Early on he convinced some friends and investors to front him the money until he became established. I use to just shake my head when watching him deal with customers at his table thinking how does he stay in business by treating people as he did. I guess his thinking was "money talks" and apparently he was correct. I think his failure was not changing with the times as the hobby matured, especially as grading and the internet became such driving forces.
Thanx for taking the time to write this Rich - I know how much time it takes to condense and get the point across.
Outstanding job buddy.
i remember seeing him at a show when i was about 16 years old. he had an unopened box of 1955 bowman fb i believe and i asked him how much a pack costs.
his response was "you cant afford it, go find your father".
I bought most of my unopened packs from Alan in the late '90s. Still have his auction pamphlets in fact. Got all the packs graded and they are all good. Probably 100-150 packs/racks over the years. I saw him yearly at the Cranston Show--the oldest running till last year when it stopped--he was only there to buy. Surly is surely the word I would use. I actually did not like to talk to him in person.
I brought my 7 year old daughter Megan to the Cranston show in 2001 and she saw his beanie baby on the table and wanted one. I decided to start a conversation with him and asked him if he still collected. He said yes--I collect--dead presidents!!
Took me a minute to understand what he meant--and by that time my daughter was scared of the guy who collected dead somethings...so we left. Never said another word or gave him my business again
That said--well written piece to the OP. Alan was a force and changer in the hobby.
Edited to add: I remembered that I saw Alan at the last Cranston Show in 2015--the 1st show I set up at in 20 years. he did not look well and it was clear he was very ill. I did speak to him--knowing I would probably never see him again--and thanked him for what he added to the hobby. I wished him well and said I would see him here next year. He gave me that look as if to say -- that ain't happening.
May he RIP with those dead presidents
Someone famous once said, "money doesn't buy class."
He was a glaring example of that statement.
Respect is earned and should be given to all people at all times....especially customers.
Good riddance !!!!!
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
When it comes dollars this guy was shrewd, successful and toxic. Unfortunately sometimes Type A = a-hole.
My memories of Al Rosen. From 1983 thru 1989 each year I would sell
him two shipments of hand collated sets of Topps BB. 500 sets each
order. He would attend the Charlotte NC show at the fairgrounds. In
his showcases would be hundreds of Topps,Bowman,Fleer pre 1970
cards. Promoted as MINT. Most would not pass PSA 7 grade. His personality
and attitude were not acceptable by most standards but his money
ALWAYS made things OK for the moment. Like him or not he did more
to promote the hobby during the 1980s than the next 100 dealers.
Hartland statues and Press Pins from major events were two of his
passions.
The guy is forever embedded in my collection
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
Never met the guy. Sounds like he was a wheeler dealer type, not very polished, and offered cash up front in return for bulk deals. Doesn’t sound like he put a gun to anyone’s head. Perhaps I am in the minority, but I also don’t find particularly offensive the colloquialism, “dead Presidents.” There’s also a certain irony to bemoaning a lack of class and then relishing someone’s passing. Just some morning coffee musings on the good old web before real life kicks in.
Instagram: mattyc_collection
I loved growing up to him and checking out his ads in different mags and stories about his finds.
and what was that, that Mr. Rosenberg did for the hobby exactly,
besides probably leaving a lot of people feeling cheated in the end ?
the hobby did for HIM ... ex copy machine flunky
I live in Texas. When he was still around I showed a picture of him to my wife and told her if I died and a guy looking like that showed up on the front porch with a hand full of crisp $ 100 bills wanting to buy my stuff to shoot him.... in the leg of course
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
I watched the video a year ago when he died and don’t think I could stand to watch it again. If someone tried to take a picture with me after buying my collection with a bunch of money around my face I would knock him on his ass. Saw his act many times at card shows in the 90s and always steered very clear of him. Too many really good, honest, humble dealers out there to put up with his act.
I gave this some thought and wanted to see if I could "fairly" say something about Mr Rosen.
While his persona and buying skills leave much to be desired, I can't help but believe that Mr Mint truly helped to make the hobby what it is today with respect to its prominence.
>
please share details
Alan Rosen in the card world
Chuck Rozanski in the comic world.
Somewhat similar. Fans, detractors. Those 2 guys had (or have) them all.
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
I’m sorry, I do recall Rosen on periodicals very well regarding the hobby of baseball cards and I certainly recognize the nostalgia we all feel towards our youths ... (the two utes) but the hobby of baseball cards is much bigger than a single loud mouth condescending collector from wherever the heck he was from .. there were a million Rosen’s collecting and swindling collectors back in the day ... all over the place .. he was one of em and our hobby would be exactly where it is today with or without him. He was recognizable. RIP Mr. Rosen .. you were true to yourself to the end ... I've gotta respect that.
so who owns the sets labeled GEM MINT ..in the psa registry ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
I've never dealt with him. From all the negative comments I've heard about him since 1990, I never would have. I saw him sitting most of the time with no customers at the Shriners show in Boston over the years. Thanks for posting that video. It just confirms all of what I heard. His full page ads were in every issue of Sports Collectors Digest with his fist full of money.
His 1952 Topps find is still the greatest card find ever.
Yep, Mr Mint was similar to a mobile pawn shop.
Yep... a collectors dream.
Mr Mint had amazing finds.
I noticed some folks talk bad about him so I did some research to try and find a positive article/story about him but no luck.
It’s a good lesson about ones own legacy.
Of course I might have missed one so please share.
Addicted2eBay,
I know what you mean about using one's life to create a proud legacy. You have Jim Abbott as your icon symbol. People are different and motivated by different things. One has the opportunity to see what path leads where by viewing past and current examples of humans.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
And whatever that gets you in life, certainly belongs to him. Other than that, (most) everyone loves you when your dead.
No question he was an icon in the baseball card collecting world and credited with the greatest finds in the hobby. Also seems as if the opinion from many is that his rep was that of someone who did not make a lot of friends with his tactics. I guess in the end he will be remembered for both equally, and is a great lesson how we want to live our lives. Does not matter how much money you have or stuff, and it is just as important to treat people well in the end.
As the initiator of this post let me say that my intent wasn't to focus on the persona he displayed in public. It appears that many remember, and I would agree, that the way he treated people left much be desired. I would hope he was a different person when he was around friends and family, and not promoting himself as the "Mr. October" of sports card collecting.
Back when I started in the hobby in the late 1980s, the focus was on all the modern material being printed. Even the promo cards given out major card shows soon found their value in hundreds of dollars as collectors perceived everything modern then to be great and valuable. I would see collectors leaving card shows with unopened cases of the latest Topps cards, I assume to be put aside for investment purposes. I helped my boys collect the latest and greatest but I was more interested in the cards from back when I was a young boy. There was a lot to learn about vintage sports cards, especially if you were going to spend serious money on them. Although dealers of modern material seemed to dominate card shows back then, there were many veteran dealers/collectors who focused only on vintage material and it became apparent to me that Alan Rosen was the most vocal proponent of collecting "old" cards. So I bought his book and had a fairly pain free chat with him. It was apparent to me that he knew vintage sports cards. I took much of the wisdom he put forth in his book and applied as a collector. As I tried to emphasize in my post, his "maxims" for collecting served me well and still do today. One of the greatest gifts you can receive in regard to most things in life is knowledge. There have been a lot of people I became acquainted with during my life that I didn't care for personally but whom I also learned from. Mr. Mint was one......at least when it came to buying and selling vintage sports cards, not necessarily in dealing with people.
Thanks to all who have shared. There is a lot of history in regard to our hobby and it is good to hear the perceptions and stories from the experiences of others.
I can honestly say coming into this thread that the only thing I knew about him was coming across his ads over the years. After watching those videos I can see why people feel the way they do about him. The low-balling could be chalked as just doing business,the jersey in the oil pan was careless while probably just an accident but the ball busting,pun intended, was just wrong especially on camera. It made me think if he's like this now with this potential customer he just met,what is he like with everyone else. Judging by all the comments here, the bad far outweighed the good with him.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Watching all those videos made me want to comment on a card aspect. The speed in which he looked over all those cards/sets. Made me think he had a keen eye or just loosely eyeballed them and took for granted that there were no trimmed cards or other flaws. I know if I took a few 60's vintage sets to some dealers I know to sell, the measuring/magnifying devices would be promptly deployed.
In regard to the "1952 Find"
other the the video interview where he TALKS about it
is there any other documentation, proof, or what have you
that the story actually took place ?
I have no doubt that 1952 cards can still be stumbled across
I'm just asking if there was anything other than that video
that HE stumbled across them
I saw the guy in Green Bay Video
some parking lot video
but nothing about that
From what I know, he didn't grade his cards
so there wasn't ant pedigree label
or the "Mr. Mint 52' Find" label as far as I know
just wondering
I think that by doing what he did, was the art of the whole thing
spending too much time looking at the condition,
would only raise questions by the seller
If you quickly go through them all
down play them
make the seller feel like he's being done a favor
.... that's how you get it for the price you want
The way to buy large collections for dirt cheap is to look through in silence, take mental notes, while hardly divulging a thing about the upside of the collections and augmenting the negative aspects to lower the price ...Rosen was terrific at this ... god bless him ... the seller does all the talking in the video ... for every collector of baseball cards who have heard of Rosen ... there are 400 who haven’t ... he was a legend to those who heard of him. ... Willie Mays ... Roberto Clemente are a couple of my legends ... Rosen is a very distant third
This
He probably did a bunch of these and knows what he is looking for. Think about this - after the 52 find nothing is going to approach it, so what he is looking for is a quick scan to see if the collection has value, key cards, how much value, and at a minimum what can he make profit wise on a quick flip. That way he can move on to the next collection.
Watching that video you see polar opposites. A collector who is proud of his collection and wants to take you down memory lane with it, and a buyer who does not give a rip and just wants to see what he has quickly so he can move along to the next deal. The dichotomy in this video between Mr Mint and the seller of the collection is interesting to watch and in some ways not a good image of the hobby but a partial truth defining it overall.
I began collecting cards shortly before I turned 7, in the spring of 1961. Discovering mail order firms in the mid-60s was a boon to my collecting. I attended my first major card collector convention in the summer of 1972, at the big Midwest Sports Collectors Convention in Troy, Michigan. Truly, it was "a ground floor opportunity". The cards I was seeking by the mid-70s were the tough, beautiful immediate postwar regionals. Few dealers had them, many collectors wanted them, and some advanced collectors had them. Nobody wanted to sell. I left the hobby, and discovered another hobby.
By the mid-80s, I bought a subscription to what was then the most intense, influential, and interesting hobby periodical, SPORTS COLLECTORS DIGEST. From my first issue, in the fall of 1984, it became apparent there was a new, high power dealer I had never heard of before---Alan Rosen. His full-page ads were flamboyant. His trademark then was a caricature of his profile with a gargantuan nose. He seemed to deal in the stuff I dreamed of, but never could seem to get. Prices were much higher than the mid-70s when I left the hobby.
I should have pounced on the full-page ads he took out in SCD announcing his massive 1952 Topps high number find. He said for awhile he had trouble selling the cards, 'cause a lot of collectors secretly wondered if the cards were real, or if there was actually many more cases to be had. The cards were real, all right. The case they came from was the ONLY case. it turned out. So, once the hobby realized this was truly a limited-time opportunity, the cards sold in a frenzy of activity. The Johnny-come-latelys were now plain losers. I barely made enough to make ends meet, let alone buy a mint '52 Topps Mickey Mantle; but that is the one I wanted.
Mr. Mint paid a fortune for all those full-page buying ads in SCD. Week by week. Month by month. Year by year. They worked. He was churlish----tough to deal with. You had to put up with his bravado. You had to put up with his rudeness. He ruled the roost. He had the connections all over the country, helping Alan look for finds of old, unsold cards or what were once-free prizes in packages of frankfurters, cookies, chips, or some other food product. He always gravitated to the tough stuff---in the finest, even impossible condition. 'Cause he was once a collector himself, and was so demanding for prime condition that in the early 80s, Ian Donnis, a young collector who knew Alan's style, saw him at a show, and said to him, "Aw, you're always looking for mint cards ... you're Mr. Mint." That's what Ian used to call Alan, and the name stuck, and Rosen started using it in his business.
Alan knew the art of the deal. I am glad I never sold him my collection, though eventually I did consign some of my best stuff to put a down payment on a home for my family and I. That's another story.
The thing that keeps me keeping a good place in my heart to Mr. Mint was that when I reflect on some of the choicest gems in my collection, and I mean the centerpieces, almost every last one of them was either purchased directly from Mr. Mint at a show, won in one of his SCD auctions, or indirectly through Alan. I sadly am not adroit at loading up an image on here, but if anyone has their copy of Alan Rosen's fine book, TRUE MINT, would you please scan the photo on page 63. It is the celebratory photo of Mr. Mint purchasing the immense collection of Mrs. Barbara Grossman. Her collection was nothing short of FABULOUS, all devoted to the New York Yankees. She had the common, and the uncommon. She had the uncommon in profoundly uncommon condition, because she was extremely fanatical about condition. All singles---no dupes. She had built a lot of her collection by originally buying them from Alan Rosen.
One reason I am asking someone to load up this photo is because it is a prime example of a great collection being bought for a good price, and the lady was indeed pleased with the result. As was Alan. For months afterwards, he was busy selling and auctioning her stuff. In fact, Alan wrote in TRUE MINT that it took him nearly six months to sell all of it. The other reason I am asking you to post the picture from page 63 is that the highlight of my own personal collection is shown. I won it in a Mr. Mint auction. Later, I got the card graded by none other than Professional Sports Authenticator. The Mint Man had listed and graded the card in his phone auction as "MINT".
Was he right, you might ask?
You better believe he was!!!!! When I got the registered mail package, I was so nervous. It took me a few minutes to work up the courage to unwrap the result. It came back PSA 9 MINT. I cried like a baby with joy! It put me on that baseball card "cloud 9". I have never come down. I devoted an entire chapter to this card in my recently released E-book on a CD concerning immediate post-war regional / food issues, Never Cheaper By the Dozen.
The only time I dealt with Mr. Mint at a show, it was one of the big Philly shows at the George Washington Motor Lodge. Fall of 1988. I approached him with a certain fear. You know, when you're wanting to buy a Ferrari-type of of baseball card, almost inevitably, you have to deal with someone churlish. They've got the goods. They own the prized gems. If you don't buy, or try to play the tough buyer thinking you were going to control the situation, The Mint Man would "put you to sleep" but quick, and dismiss you from his presence, because he knew he had dozens of collectors who would want his gems, and pay his price, in a heartbeat. So, he could tell anybody he wanted to "beat it" if they got ornery with him. There were other great dealers then who had the prime stuff. Be that as it may, nobody had the best stuff, the stuff of cardboard dreams and legends, such as the finds that Mr. Mint Alan Rosen turned up through his finds and collections bought.
Believe me when I say I have my own Rosen horror story. I was told I won an auction for a dream set, sent the check, and my check came back, with a letter of apology from Alan. At least he said he was sorry. Still, taken together, the wins were much more than the losses.
As I wrote about Alan, I try to keep an attitude of gratitude.
---- Indiana Jones (Brian Powell)
Thanx for sharing Brian. Quite a write up buddy!
I share similar experiences with respect to buys. E.g. back in 1993, I paid less than 900 bucks for a 3 box rack case of 79T BB.
I also had good experiences with Mark Murphy - tho I found my phone talks with him to be lacking in personality.
Bottom line - the cards I look at in no way reflect his unfriendly demeanor.
I also can relate to feelings expressed about Rosen's "approach" to people.
It's really too bad. He didn't have to act that way to be successful. Someone should have sent him to an emotional intelligence course so he'd treat his customers better. He likely would have been more successful. I'm sure there are many opportunities he lost for repeat business due to the way he acted.
My Mr. Mint story was back in the late 90s. I got a Ted Williams autographed baseball from a San Diego dealer who said he had Ted do a signing at his shop. Seemed reasonable since Ted spent a lot of time there. Well, I asked Mr. Mint who I could go to in order to authenticate the baseball. This was before Spence and PSA/DNA. He said "let me see the ball". He took a 1 second look at it, bounced it off the table back to me and said "it's good". Later I submitted it to PSA and it was rejected with 7 deviations noted.
No one is gonna give him much credit for holding any reverence for people's collectibles either John.
Would be nice to see a video where he was "called out" for some of the crap he pulled.
My first time seeing him was in 1975 at Montclair State University, my first baseball card show as a 13 year old. I brought my dad hoping he'd be as excited about cards as I was and help me buy more than the $26 dollars I had in my pocket--a lot of for a kid before inflation and well before cards had any real value...That show I bought 3 '67 Mantles at $5 a pop out of a stack of over 75, and 3 Carew Rookies at $3 a piece.
Al Rosen was a showman. I just quietly watched him along with the rest of the crowd gathered around. It was his schtict-all just an act. But he'd shred each seller, complaining about the poor quality of their sets. He'd purposely mistreat the cards as if they were worthless. As opposed to the rest of us excited to see some serious mid-fifty's sets for example, he'd tell the seller, I see these every day, insulting the seller, but then he'd whip out a stack of hundreds. After his purchase he'd insist on having the seller he just bought from (and insulted) pose with him and his fan of hundred dollar bills. I figured one thing out that day watching him...that I would never sell to him.
I did buy cards from him in his auctions though, and like those above, his cards were sharp, even better than he had listed. I bought an Ex '55 Mays in the mid-80s . When I received it, I sat looking at it endlessly as it seemed too good to be true. I finally sent it in for grading this past spring after all these years and it came back 6.5., so I'm still getting joy out of my purchase.