Over $15k already on a re-engraved coin!!! 1861-D G$1
liefgold
Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭✭✭
1861-D gold dollar PCGS XF Details repaired.
https://goldbergcoins.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/60/lot/126100/
The pre-auction estimate was $3500, which was way too low but $15.6k already with a day to go? I bid on this even with the repair but nothing like this. A very popular and rare date but this has a major re-engrave at the top of the reverse and redone denticles at the obverse from 3:00 to 6:00. I have looked for one forever and thought this might be one I could afford, but I guess not!
Anybody here bid on it?
liefgold
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I love it for 5k but I guess I’ll never own one
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
This one of the reasons why I will never go for the Type III gold dollar set.
I love the gold dollar set but mine will probably never include a 61-D.
I'm guessing it'll go for about 20K. Some collectors care little about the denticles, it's very clearly genuine, quite acceptably attractive, the tooling is relatively minor, and otherwise the price would be 40K.
I like old gold... but not that much..... Cheers, RickO
Do you remember the days when "problem coins" were cheap? Back in the day those who purchased coins like this were looked down upon ... one step ahead of the junk box collectors.
Current absentee: $13,000
(7 bids)
Crazy bids, but set collecting will do that to some people.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
I wonder if there was ever a "day" when a sought after "problem" coin ever was cheap.
Honestly my untrained eye doesn't even see the "problem"...these coins are so small and poorly struck...it doesn't look too bad to me...
Look at the berries.
Yes , the berries (or corn stalks) at the top of the reverse and the denticles on the right of the obverse. Very obvious if you know what it is supposed to look like. I sold a 1855-D with an almost identical repair 2 years ago that went for $5.2k. Based on these bids it would likely sell for twice that now.
For true rarities, Problems are not as big of a problem.
Very nice pieces even with repairs and re-engraving. But --- $15k ?
The Dahlonega, Georgia area was largely opposed to slavery and pro-Union. It took the state militia to maintain control over the mint and vicinity.
During the live sale it will be interesting if that bid is real? I also don't like it when auction companies do not show the slab, front and back. The coin many times looks way different in those shots.
The reverse looks okay to me, other than the minor gouge above LL of DOLLAR, and the artistic depictions of crop plants appear to be normal, nothing very obviously wrong. Did the auctioneer or someone else who scrutinized the coin state that the reverse had been tooled?
@botanist
IMO, your numismatic education would be furthered if you read the posts above and then go on line and pull up an image of a Type 3 dollar reverse.
Now that Insider2 pointed it out the difference in the berries over the "1" is obvious...
The top coin is the one being auctioned...the lower is from CoinFacts...
The surfaces, obverse and reverse, have been smoothed, or as the catalogers like to say "tooled." If you look carefully that are lots of parallel hairlines that may or may not be more obvious at certain angles, if you were to see the piece in person.
Using the magnifier tool on the auction site...I see that the "United States of America" looks like it has been polished...seems like the cataloguer was dropping a hint as to the coin's past:
"Popular key date with a low mintage of only 1,000.and many of those known survived by becoming jewelry and finding later return to numismatics as their rarity become known."
Here is my previous 1855-D that was repaired in the same spot on the reverse. Note how overly distinct the berries/corn stalks are on this and the repaired 61-D compared to the crude look of the original posted above.
I'm glad I just like to collect the best type coins I come across. Is there a long history of people collecting rare coins like this no matter how unattractive they are?
It depends upon what you call, "a long history," and how much may have been covered up in the auction descriptions of years gone by. My experience is mostly limited to the coin magazines I read in the 1960s, the auction catalogs I reviewed in the '70s and '80s and what I saw at the coin stores and shows during the same period.
Coins that had been mounted for jewelry use were hard to sell. Coins with holes were close to impossible. I remember reading in a magazine where a 1797 dollar with a nasty hole was worth maybe $15 in the 1960s. (Gee I thought as a kid with not much money, "I wish I had run into that one!") An 1861-D dollar that had had the "U" in "UNITED" strengthened sold for $100 or so when the no problem piece was selling for $1,500. The "U" is weak on all genuine 1860-D and 1861-D gold dollars because the same worn out obverse dies was used for both issues. If the "U" was strong, that was trouble because it had to have been tooled.
About 20 years ago I reviewed the inventory of an old time dealer who had an inventory full of scarce problem coins. He had items like an 1804 Quarter that had EF sharpness, but artificial color, Chain Cent that had been smoothed and other tough coins that would have gone into body bags (refused to grade them) had they been sent to NGC or PCGS. All of the coins were in "third world grading service holders" with none of the problems noted. All of them had false "clean grades" but he was not have much luck selling them.
I think that the "details" grade holders have been a boon for problem coins. Now you can them into top of line holders, with the problems noted, and that has made a big difference.
I agree with Bill on the boon for details graded coins in top line holders. For me though, not all "problem" coins are equal. For example, I would pay much more for this 61-D if it were cleaned than this repaired one. It seems to me most repaired coins are covering the worst possible scenario, which is holed or jewelry damage. In this example I would prefer if they had left the hole.
I doubt if those bidders suspect that this coin had a hole in it. It is a good repair. Do any of the major auction houses declare all of the possibilities when a coin is "repaired" and not a word about location or what repaired.
You may be right. Many collectors would be screwed if TPGS's did not exist. I do disagree with part of your post.
The person who did this repair is an amateur. IMO, it is a very crude job and anyone who does not see it needs to study images of genuine coins.