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Ok Half Dime Variety Experts.... 6/19/19 - BIG UPDATE!!

ms70ms70 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited June 19, 2019 5:09PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Is this 1849 over 6 OR 1849 over 8?

PCGS claims 1849/8 H10C Overdate FS-302 (001.55) in AU50. For starters, I agree with everyone else here. It was originally in a PCGS 1849/8 holder and I after doing my homework I sent it in to be corrected and TrueViewed.

I saw the result and got a hold of PCGS customer service before it shipped back. I explained the diagnostics and they said they would review it. I'll be considering what to do with it now. I really don't feel like going back & forth with PCGS on this.

I can't with a clear conscious have this in my registry when it's not right.

Thanks to those who responded especially yosclimber who provided a huge weath of information.

My coin:

For comparison, here's an identical die marriage referenced by yosclimber that PCGS certified as 1849/6....

Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

«13

Comments

  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2018 10:11PM

    Will update tomorrow.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,869 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2018 10:48PM

    Without a doubt...1849/6 H10C Redbook 9/6, latest Redbook “9 / Widely Placed 6”, Breen-3052, PCGS-4342, FS-302 (per Clint's ( @yosclimber ) Half Dime Attribution Guide, page 8 V-2.) https://web.stanford.edu/~clint/hdag/1849_half_dime_guide.pdf

    ...and a darn nice one too!

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

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  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What yosclimber said.
    TD

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well... that was interesting. Looking at the OP picture... and magnifying it... all prior to reading the rest of the thread, I was convinced it was a 9/8. Of course, this is not an area of expertise for me...@yosclimber ... Thank you for that very detailed reference information. Cheers, RickO

  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Bump for the update in 1st post.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,155 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks, Clint, for the info pdf.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,869 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 8, 2018 12:45PM

    As @yosclimber has indicated previously, the 1849/6 variety attribution at PCGS is a mess and should be divided up into the Valentine numbers versus FS (Fivaz / Stanton) numbers. Clint put together an extremely detailed booklet as mentioned in his post with lots of detailed images and pick-up points.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug...
  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just got off the phone with customer service. The rep was extremely helpful and is forwarding the info to the attribution people.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,869 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wonder if @MarkStephenson would interested in this?

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug...
  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 8, 2018 6:02PM

    Here are my specifics on attributions of the 1849 half dimes in PCGS CoinFacts:

    Their current accuracy rate is 67%.
    This could be easily improved by putting their 145432 spec (FS-302) under 4342 - it would fix 4 of the 8 errors.

    I just sent them a message using the Contact page on PCGS CoinFacts.

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,869 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ha! The only AU58 in the list above is mine and it is incorrectly atttibuted!

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug...
  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 8, 2018 6:48PM

    @oih82w8 , we also discussed your 1849 V-6 in a couple of threads last summer. Here's one:
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/985079/1849-h10c-am-i-wanting-to-see-the-overdate-ngc-specialist-does-not-brief-reply-from-ngc
    (In this case, NGC struggled to attribute it).
    Your coin now shows up as a PCGS MS-63, also misattributed in the above table. I noticed this when you posted it to the Liberty Seated images thread a few weeks ago:
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/11899496/#Comment_11899496
    V-6 is harder to attribute from the obverse, since it's a Later Die State.
    And it's harder to attribute from the reverse, unless people use my PDF which shows its crack pattern.

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,869 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sure enough Clint. That MS63 is at CAC right now.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug...
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,869 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PCGS recognizes varieties by subject matter experts; Sheldon, Newcomb and most recently Fortin for Seated Dimes, and others https://www.pcgs.com/varietyfaq . What would it take to get a Seated Half Dime specialist recognized (Valentine, @yosclimber has simplified or at least gave us something to chew on with his PDF)?

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug...
  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2018 6:45PM

    I believe PCGS, NGC, Heritage, Stack's-Bowers, etc. prefer to use the latest published attribution guides as sources for their attributions.
    This is probably why the 9/8 is being used from the Cherrypicker's Guide.
    They need to switch over to using Kevin Flynn's 2014 book, at least for the 1849 (it does not cover all varieties for all years).

    Another way to proceed would be to ask Bill Fivaz if he accepts the later research on the under digits, and if he does, to change the description in the Cherrypicker's Guide. I don't know if there are any other specialists who judge that 9/8 is correct. @MrHalfDime is the leading expert, but he has often taken a friendly stance which simply says there is disagreement on what the underdigits are [But see below for clarification!]. This detail is not really needed to attribute the V- die marriage, since the reverse is much simpler to use. However, the description of the underdigits is important for people who have registry sets, and for people who like to collect by Red Book variety, etc.

  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2018 5:12PM

    I totally agree. It is imperative however for PCGS to make up their mind. They can't have identical coins in their holders attributed differently. I don't mean this in a mean spirited way, but it does affect their credibility.

    In this case I could take the above TrueView'ed coins which are identical, and fill two different spots in the registry!

    "Liberty Seated Half Dimes Complete Variety Set, Circulation Strikes (1837-1873)" calls for
    both PCGS coins# 4342 and 145432.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • MrHalfDimeMrHalfDime Posts: 3,440 ✭✭✭✭

    @MrHalfDime is the leading expert, but he has often taken a friendly stance which simply says there is disagreement on what the underdigits are.”

    Please do not misquote me on this, of all subjects. I am repeatedly on record as being solidly behind the opinion and writings of Tom DeLorey (CaptHenway on this forum) on the subject of the underdigits of the various 1849 half dimes. Mr. DeLorey has suggested in his July 1985 Gobrecht Journal Vol. 11, No. 33 article that all of the underdigits seen on the V1, V2, V4, V5, and V6 1849 half dimes are a 6 (or inverted 9). I emphasized this in my own thread, wherein I related how I was able to purchase the earliest die state that Mr. DeLorey and I have ever seen of the 1849/6 V2 half dime, from Tom DeLorey himself. I have even given presentations to the LSCC on this subject, wherein I quoted Tom DeLorey as saying “That coin certainly puts an end to the debate!” No, I have never vacillated on this subject. Perhaps the comment you attribute to me about disagreement on this subject refers to others, others who have not researched this variety, and who have not seen the indisputable EDS 1849/6 V2, after which there can be no disagreement.

    They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2018 6:45AM

    Yes, sorry I misrepresented your position.
    You have always been on the 9/6 side.
    It's more of acknowledging that the debate exists among others and may not be resolved soon.
    From your 2005 forum post:

    As you may know, there has been a long unanswered question regarding the identity of the underdigits for the 1849 repunched date half dimes. The dabate over the correct identity (i.e., 1849/6 or 1849/8) has waged for many years, and likely will continue for some time to come. Two numismatic heavy weights, Bill Fivaz and Thomas Delorey, profered their opinions in the Gobrecht Journal several years ago, taking opposite sides on the issue. I know and respect both of them, and would not care to reopen the debate here, but I will say that after thoroughly reading each argument, and after having studied many examples of each, I come down on the side of Mr. Delorey on this issue. At an ANA summer convention several years ago, I stopped by the table of Harlan Berk, for whom Thomas Delorey works, to introduce myself and offer my comments and agreement with his articles on the 1849 half dimes. Although Harlan Berk specializes in ancient and foreign coins, Mr. Delorey smiled, reached into his case, and said "Then you would appreciate this coin". He showed me absolutely the earliest die state that I had ever seen of the 1849 V2 "1849/6", with the entire underdigit visible. It was, indesputably, a 6 - without question. He smiled again and said "Kind of puts an end to the debate, doesn't it?". I was thoroughly impressed and asked if I might take some notes on the coin. Thomas stunned me by saying "I'll do better than that; you can buy it if you'd like". I treasure that coin, and often produce it to end debate on the 1849/6 vs. 1849/8 half dimes.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/8742805/#Comment_8742805

    There is a longer discussion in this 2007 thread:
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/563664/new-1849-6-seated-half-dime-from-the-melville-ny-show-grading-opinions-welcomed

    Do you know if Mr. Fivaz is still firmly on the 9/8 side, or if he finds the analysis of 1849 / 1846 overlays by Mark Sheldon and Kevin Flynn provide good evidence for 9/6?
    Or if he has seen your V-2 VEDS coin?
    If Mr. Fivaz could be brought over to the 9/6 side, that could really help stop the debate.

    I checked the 1999 Gobrecht Journal by Mark Sheldon just now, and he actually focuses his analysis to only the V-4,
    showing that it matches 1849 / 1846.
    https://archive.org/stream/gobrechtjournalfn075libe#page/10/mode/2up
    I believe Kevin Flynn used overlays for the V-2, but I don't have his photos at hand to share.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Did you ever get good pix of the 1849/6 V-2 VEDS? If so, post them here.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    Did you ever get good pix of the 1849/6 V-2 VEDS? If so, post them here.

    That would be fantastic.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,869 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So, PCGS is sticking with 1849/8 FS-302? I was hoping to hear back from @MarkStephenson to see his opinion on this. He should have some influence, but may stay back in the shadows and let the "experts" handle this.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug...
  • okiedudeokiedude Posts: 643 ✭✭✭

    Hmmm.... I have the NGC MS64 Eliasberg coin. Listed as 9/8. I recall looking at it a couple of years ago thinking it had the 9/6 diagnostics. Wonder what I should do with it?

    BST with: Oldhobo, commoncents05, NoLawyer, AgentJim007, Bronzemat, 123cents, Lordmarcovan, VanHalen, ajaan, MICHAELDIXON, jayPem and more!
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,869 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @okiedude said:
    Hmmm.... I have the NGC MS64 Eliasberg coin. Listed as 9/8. I recall looking at it a couple of years ago thinking it had the 9/6 diagnostics. Wonder what I should do with it?

    Let's see what she looks like!

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug...
  • okiedudeokiedude Posts: 643 ✭✭✭

    You're going to make me dig it out of the safe and scan it! Yikes-LOL! We'll see. I wish Stacks still had all their old auctions archived. I grab a pic there.

    BST with: Oldhobo, commoncents05, NoLawyer, AgentJim007, Bronzemat, 123cents, Lordmarcovan, VanHalen, ajaan, MICHAELDIXON, jayPem and more!
  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2018 1:53PM

    I'm still waiting for a response from PCGS. Nothing yet. I just sent an e-mail to make sure it doesn't fall off the radar.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • WDPWDP Posts: 517 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @okiedude, you might be be able to use the NGC slab verification function (scan, or key in the serial number). If you are lucky it might bring up a photo for your coin.

    W. David Perkins Numismatics - http://www.davidperkinsrarecoins.com/ - 25+ Years ANA, ANS, NLG, NBS, LM JRCS, LSCC, EAC, TAMS, LM CWTS, CSNS, FUN

  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2018 7:03PM

    @okiedude said:
    Hmmm.... I have the NGC MS64 Eliasberg coin. Listed as 9/8. I recall looking at it a couple of years ago thinking it had the 9/6 diagnostics. Wonder what I should do with it?


    https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-5WYRW
    [The Stack's-Bowers auctions are archived back to about 2010, which is where I got this just now.]
    NGC 367387-016
    This is a V-2, tied for 4th in the roster for V-2 in my PDF. (I need to correct the 2012-6 price, though).
    Easy to attribute from the reverse crack pattern (crack to right ribbon is V-2).

    The slab label says 9/8 because that's what NGC uses, but in auctions it gets labelled V-2 and FS-302 which are correct.
    If you want to use it in a registry set, I guess it would already work for a NGC set.
    For resale you can write your own accurate auction description.

  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2018 6:13PM

    [duplicate]

  • KkathylKkathyl Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @yosclimber thank you for all this detail. It will take several read through to get it. But from what I can see you have done more research then most on this topic. Great write up and you present you case well. I’m an excel wiz geek

    Best place to buy !
    Bronze Associate member

  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    UPDATE from PCGS..... I received this e-mail this morning:

    "Good Morning,

    Following up from our previous conversation, your concern is still currently being reviewed by PCGS experts.

    Once there is a consensus, you will be reached out with a response to this matter

    Have a great rest of your week.

    Thank you,"

    (PCGS Customer Service)

    So this is good news. It's being looked at and hopefully it will result in a permanent decision, hopefully 1849/6.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrHalfDime said:
    @MrHalfDime is the leading expert, but he has often taken a friendly stance which simply says there is disagreement on what the underdigits are.”

    Please do not misquote me on this, of all subjects. I am repeatedly on record as being solidly behind the opinion and writings of Tom DeLorey (CaptHenway on this forum) on the subject of the underdigits of the various 1849 half dimes. Mr. DeLorey has suggested in his July 1985 Gobrecht Journal Vol. 11, No. 33 article that all of the underdigits seen on the V1, V2, V4, V5, and V6 1849 half dimes are a 6 (or inverted 9). I emphasized this in my own thread, wherein I related how I was able to purchase the earliest die state that Mr. DeLorey and I have ever seen of the 1849/6 V2 half dime, from Tom DeLorey himself. I have even given presentations to the LSCC on this subject, wherein I quoted Tom DeLorey as saying “That coin certainly puts an end to the debate!” No, I have never vacillated on this subject. Perhaps the comment you attribute to me about disagreement on this subject refers to others, others who have not researched this variety, and who have not seen the indisputable EDS 1849/6 V2, after which there can be no disagreement.

    Let's get some good pictures of this date made for the record. You get the photographs done and I will pay for it.
    TD

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2018 5:47PM

    Here are the best photos I've seen for the overdate area of the V-2, 9/ Far 6

    MS-67+ Stack's Bowers 2015-2 PCGS cert 30863456

    MS-67+ (same coin as above; different lighting angle), PCGS CoinFacts/TrueView 2016-9

    VF-30 PCGS CoinFacts PCGS cert 31609956

    Amazing EDS example in Stephen Crain's reference collection; was sold to him by Tom DeLorey some years ago.
    On most V-2 photos, the big loop of the 6 is not as plainly visible as in the above 3 photos.
    Usually just a disconnected curve of the 6 may be visible.
    This is why the most accurate attribution for V-2 and V-4 (plus V-5, V-6, V-1, etc.) uses the reverse cracks and the date position.

    And here are the best photos I've seen for the overdate area of the V-4, 9 / Near 6

    MS-67 Heritage 2014-6 Gardner PCGS cert 21348946

    MS-67 PCGS CoinFacts PCGS cert 83794933

    MS-68 PCGS CoinFacts ex-Simpson PCGS cert 06666580

    The proof that the underdate is 1846 on both is by overlaying the 2 dates in a photo.
    Mark Sheldon did this for the V-4 in his 1999 Gobrecht Journal article.
    https://archive.org/stream/gobrechtjournalfn075libe#page/10/mode/2up
    Kevin Flynn did this for both the V-2 and V-4 in his 2014 book.

  • MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭

    Sure looks like a 6 to me. Or perhaps an upside down 9 (which would make a bit more sense).

    Interesting thread to read and appreciate all the knowledge shared.

    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2018 4:29AM

    The "upside down 9" theory was tested. The inverted 9 is not the same shape as the 6 from 1846, so it does not produce the right shape for the under digit.
    Another theory was that it was a sideways 9.
    As it turns out, 1846 makes more sense than a repunched 9, because the Liberty Seated Half Dime dates were punched with a "gang punch" which has all 4 digits together. So if the 9 was upside down, the other 3 digits would be to the right. But they are to the left, with the remants of the old 4 under the new 4....
    If single digit punches were used instead of a gang punch, then an inverted 9 could be feasible (except for the shape).
    Here are the key images from Mark Sheldon's article, to make it a bit easier to compare then with the color photos above:



    A similar overlay works for the V-2, where the 6 is lower.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the fantastic photos!

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • seanqseanq Posts: 8,568 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @yosclimber said:
    Here are the key images from Mark Sheldon's article, to make it a bit easier to compare then with the color photos above:

    Not only does the 6 have the squared off area, but look at the thickness of the crossbar of the 4. On the 1849 you can see the thicker crossbar of the underlying digit in the center of the 4.

    Sean Reynolds

    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @seanq said:

    @yosclimber said:
    Here are the key images from Mark Sheldon's article, to make it a bit easier to compare then with the color photos above:

    Not only does the 6 have the squared off area, but look at the thickness of the crossbar of the 4. On the 1849 you can see the thicker crossbar of the underlying digit in the center of the 4.

    Sean Reynolds

    Look at how wide the bottom half of that 6 is. That's why it swings out so far on the 1849/6 V-2.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,869 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I hope that something productive comes out of this, other than constructive conversation in this thread. IF these are reclassified, I doubt that the other attributed examples, right or wrong, will be corralled up and relabeled.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug...
  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @oih82w8 said:
    I hope that something productive comes out of this, other than constructive conversation in this thread. IF these are reclassified, I doubt that the other attributed examples, right or wrong, will be corralled up and relabeled.

    I will keep everyone posted.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2018 6:00PM

    @oih82w8 said:
    ... IF these are reclassified, I doubt that the other attributed examples, right or wrong, will be corralled up and relabeled.

    It will happen at some point, since the Red Book has already made a reasonable correction to how these overdates are labelled.
    And PCGS has demonstrated their interest in accurate attribution by adding Coin Numbers and labels for FS-302 and FS-301.
    They just need improved labels at this point.
    I don't know what their process is for changing labels for a Coin Number, or of they prefer to create new Coin Numbers for new labels, but either would do the job.
    Then it would be up to people who hold the slabs to see if they want to send them in for new labels.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I had not noticed that the Redbook had changed the listing. I like the new listing.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,869 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I hope thst @ms70 has some good feedback for us that I can use to plead my case on my V-6.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug...
  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @oih82w8 said:
    I hope thst @ms70 has some good feedback for us that I can use to plead my case on my V-6.

    Everyone here will be the first to know.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,869 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    I had not noticed that the Redbook had changed the listing. I like the new listing.

    I will have to check that out.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug...
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,869 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 26, 2018 1:55PM

    I am wondering if I sent my reconsideration package (letter of pick-up points and images of my1849/6 V-6) now if it would muddy up the water for @ms70 1849/6 V-2?

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug...
  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I still haven't heard anything, so either they haven't gotten to it yet or they're knee deep into it. Hopefully their awareness of all the amazing information just in this very thread will clarify all the varieties of 9/6 and 9/8. Your submission might actually further the research.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,869 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ms70 I will give my discussion paper one last look-over and send it to @PCGSCustomerService within a day or two.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug...
  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,475 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    What yosclimber said.
    TD

    :D

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