High Integrity on the PCGS board

coinlieutenant · January 12, 2018 5:07PM

No!! This is a not a Circle of Trust thread! Well, kind of...

We see enough bad news and angry threads on these boards. As a counterpoint, I wanted to share two separate instances that show how there are lots of good folks around and share a brief story.

In the last year, I bought two separate coins, one from @Vbowling and @Boosibri . I committed to buying both coins and prior to shipping, they both received separate offers on the pieces in excess of what I was paying. Both of them wrote me right away and suggested that they would simply ship the coins to the new party and pay me a profit on the coins in the amount of the delta between what I paid them and what the offer was.

There easily could have been hemming and hawing about money left on the table, but both Andrew and Brian were complete gentlemen and professionals about it.

I want to pass on this information to the rest of the boards. Both of these guys are class acts. Deals/interactions like this always make me smile and make me a bit happier as a member of the numismatic community.

As I get older, the social aspect of this hobby increases in importance...and these are some of the reasons why.

John
Silicon Valley Coins

MikeInFL · January 12, 2018 5:39PM

I always like to hear it when good things happen to good people. I hope you are well, John.

jt88 · January 12, 2018 5:50PM

Agree, there are many good people on this board.

dennis1219 · January 12, 2018 5:57PM

Thanks for posting.

Kkathyl · January 12, 2018 6:01PM

Appreciate the share it is always nice when you hear people go above and beyond. Way to go guys!!!

Unknown · January 12, 2018 6:17PM

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BryceM · January 12, 2018 6:20PM

Did you still have a buy option?

coinlieutenant · January 12, 2018 6:24PM

@BryceM said:
Did you still have a buy option?

Yes. I was buying for resale.

BryceM · January 12, 2018 6:27PM

OK, in that case it works. I’d be pretty steamed if I finally locked up a deal for my white whale and instead got a check for a couple hundred bucks because someone else made a better offer.

coinlieutenant · January 12, 2018 6:27PM

@ProfHaroldHill said:
As long as they offered to sell to the other party, and you still had full rights to buy the coin, I can see where someone buying for possible profit might like that idea.

I'm not referring now to the specific sellers, but the problem with accepting a deal like that one, is that you can't know how much a seller actually got for the coin. An unscrupulous seller could get $500 more for the coin, and send you only $100.

If a seller who sends you $ instead of the coin offers to tell you who it was sold to, and for how much, then that new buyer would have the right to be very upset! What about respecting privacy? I wouldn't want someone telegraphing others about my purchase from them!

If that works for you, so be it, but personally, once I accept an offer, and tell my buyer that the 'coin is yours', it IS THEIRS. While I'm waiting for payment, NO other offers will be entertained, period.

Likewise, if a dealer emailed me after I had confirmed a purchase that he had gotten a better offer, and he wanted to work that 'three way deal', I would tell him to go find a nature trail near his location... and 'go take a hike'.

I would then never do business with him again, buying OR selling.

But then, I'm a collector and vest-pocket dealer only... I guess some buyers who buy "strictly for future profit" might like the idea, in spite of all the above.

Bottomline: If it works for you, it works. But it would not work for me.

I think presuming positive intentions solves many of the hypotheticals you put forth.
And I also think that you are dismissing that there was a prior relationship and understanding of the purchase between me and the sellers. Lets not make lemons out of lemonade, shall we?

lablover · January 12, 2018 6:31PM

Character is what a man is when no one else is looking.

Coinstartled · January 12, 2018 7:02PM

Sounds good. Had I sold a coin though, it would be shipped out to the buyer regardless of later offers.

Raybo · January 12, 2018 7:20PM

@Coinstartled said:
Sounds good. Had I sold a coin though, it would be shipped out to the buyer regardless of later offers.

Same here, no matter the other details that might be involved.

coinlieutenant · January 12, 2018 8:01PM

@Raybo said:

@Coinstartled said:
Sounds good. Had I sold a coin though, it would be shipped out to the buyer regardless of later offers.

Same here, no matter the other details that might be involved.

Ok, this thread has not gone as I wanted it. I was just trying to say something nice about fellow members and the judgment and pontification from absolutists train pulled into the station! Geez!!

What if:

You listed a coin at $1000. I wrote and offered you $900 and you knew I was buying it for resale, cause, you know, I'm a dealer. You accept and in the time that it has taken to accept, you have a full price offer in your inbox. How is it bad for you to write me in that instance and say, "Hey, you want me to sell it to this guy and send you a check for the difference and call it even?"

Or what if I told you I was going to a show followed by a much needed vacation and to hold off sending it until I got back and the same thing happened in the interim because you forgot to take the thread off the BST?

John

lkeigwin · January 12, 2018 9:04PM

@ProfHaroldHill said:

Likewise, if a dealer emailed me after I had confirmed a purchase that he had gotten a better offer, and he wanted to work that 'three way deal', I would tell him to go find a nature trail near his location... and 'go take a hike'.

I would then never do business with him again, buying OR selling.

Ditto. I don't like it. Sorry, coinlieutenant, you know I love you, man, but a deal is a deal.
Lance.

U1chicago · January 12, 2018 9:11PM

@coinlieutenant said:

@Raybo said:

@Coinstartled said:
Sounds good. Had I sold a coin though, it would be shipped out to the buyer regardless of later offers.

Same here, no matter the other details that might be involved.

Ok, this thread has not gone as I wanted it. I was just trying to say something nice about fellow members and the judgment and pontification from absolutists train pulled into the station! Geez!!

What if:

You listed a coin at $1000. I wrote and offered you $900 and you knew I was buying it for resale, cause, you know, I'm a dealer. You accept and in the time that it has taken to accept, you have a full price offer in your inbox. How is it bad for you to write me in that instance and say, "Hey, you want me to sell it to this guy and send you a check for the difference and call it even?"

Or what if I told you I was going to a show followed by a much needed vacation and to hold off sending it until I got back and the same thing happened in the interim because you forgot to take the thread off the BST?

John

I think it went south because you didn't state that you were buying as a dealer for resale in the 1st post (the clarification later helped). In your case what happened was great as you made a profit with no need to even resell a coin. However, I'm sure you can see that the same scenario would not be necessarily a pleasant one for a collector (since the $100 or even $1000 profit would not be as nice as a coin someone has been chasing).

Coinstartled · January 12, 2018 9:24PM

@coinlieutenant said:

@Raybo said:

@Coinstartled said:
Sounds good. Had I sold a coin though, it would be shipped out to the buyer regardless of later offers.

Same here, no matter the other details that might be involved.

Ok, this thread has not gone as I wanted it. I was just trying to say something nice about fellow members and the judgment and pontification from absolutists train pulled into the station! Geez!!

What if:

You listed a coin at $1000. I wrote and offered you $900 and you knew I was buying it for resale, cause, you know, I'm a dealer. You accept and in the time that it has taken to accept, you have a full price offer in your inbox. How is it bad for you to write me in that instance and say, "Hey, you want me to sell it to this guy and send you a check for the difference and call it even?"

Or what if I told you I was going to a show followed by a much needed vacation and to hold off sending it until I got back and the same thing happened in the interim because you forgot to take the thread off the BST?

John

Didn't mean to step on the parade. If the other sellers are acting is your agent, that is cool. I have been buying and reselling for many years and have never experienced that scenario.

coinlieutenant · January 12, 2018 9:33PM

@lkeigwin It wasn't given as an ultimatum, it was given as an option. I guess I didn't convey that very well, but no one put a gun to my head.

specialist · January 12, 2018 9:34PM

This is ridiculous. Hiding behind the collector mantra does not make it right to void any deal for any reason. Your saying a hand shake is meaningless? I fully agree with:

If that works for you, so be it, but personally, once I accept an offer, and tell my buyer that the 'coin is yours', it IS THEIRS. While I'm waiting for payment, NO other offers will be entertained, period.

Its wrong for any to sell any one to for any reason. God forbid if a real dealer ever did it.

coinlieutenant · January 12, 2018 9:35PM

I stated that to Bryce since it was unclear in the original post.

coinlieutenant · January 12, 2018 9:37PM

@specialist please read the whole thread.

**This wasn't mandated. It was offered. I accepted. If it was unclear in the original post, then I made it clear right after to Bryce.

Vbowling299 · January 12, 2018 9:53PM

Thanks for the positive words John. I think this thread took a very wrong turn with alot of assumptions...first off John had messaged me to buy the coin a few dollars under asking which we agreed on. Later that day i received a message for somewhere around 30% over original asking and the other member request i used specific numbers and tell John he was interested in buying it. I agreed to message John with no promise that he would agree to it with the offer from the other member. There was no requirement nor forcefulness in adjusting the deal, i told John i would gladly agree to sell at the number we already agreed upon but he told me that he would entertain the offer and agreed to sell to the third party and recieve a significant check and he would be okay with it.

Sorry that there seemed to be alot of confusion. Didnt think something like this which was a win-win-win for all parties involved could hit so many buttons

bkzoopapa · January 12, 2018 10:12PM

This is not much different than Heritage sending offers to buy lots you purchased from their sales from buyers who missed out. Just had two such offers from the FUN sale at 17% and 30% more than I paid. You can play or pass on such offers. I passed.

BryceM · January 12, 2018 10:14PM

No good deed goes unpunished. I think the way this actually worked out was a good thing for everyone. The particulars were a bit murky at first......... causing a bit of confusion.

‘s’all good now.

Coinstartled · January 12, 2018 10:48PM

@bkzoopapa said:
This is not much different than Heritage sending offers to buy lots you purchased from their sales from buyers who missed out. Just had two such offers from the FUN sale at 17% and 30% more than I paid. You can play or pass on such offers. I passed.

What are you guys buying? All I ever get after a Heritage sale are invoices.

grote15 · January 13, 2018 12:10AM

Once a deal is struck between buyer and seller and terms agreed upon, any additional offers should be moot. I can't imagine telling a buyer, "sorry I got a better price," after agreeing to sell an item to someone else. If the initial price accepted was agreeable to both parties, it shouldn't matter what transpires next. That would be like a bidder messaging a seller on ebay and offering to pay more than the hammer price because he forgot to bid and expecting the seller to take that into consideration.

coinlieutenant · January 13, 2018 12:22AM

@grote15 read the thread please. @RKKay @boiler78 this is like a zombie redux of the “done deal” thread!!

Boosibri · January 13, 2018 12:24AM

I think you are all assuming negative intent and thinking about it from a collectors standpoint not the OP's standpoint as a dealer. The choice was always his on what to do, I just provided him an option, the result is the same to me. Buy it from me for $800 and list the coin for $1000 or have me sell it for $1000 and send him a $200 check. A deal is a deal which is what I honored and everyone wins. Sadly the forum critics know better than anyone involved.

grote15 · January 13, 2018 12:26AM

@coinlieutenant said:
@grote15 read the thread please. @RKKay @boiler78 this is like a zombie redux of the “done deal” thread!!

I read it quite closely. I suppose if you are a dealer and your intention was to resell the coins all along, that would be a factor to consider, but only if your planned resale price happened to be the same price the buyer who swooped in was willing to pay. I suppose under that circumstance it would be a neat coincidence, in which case the sale was made for you.

Bochiman · January 13, 2018 12:33AM

@coinlieutenant said:
@lkeigwin It wasn't given as an ultimatum, it was given as an option. I guess I didn't convey that very well, but no one put a gun to my head.

I understood what you meant, even in the OP, and I agree that Andrew is cool. Boosi is too, but I haven't done any deals with him, just Andrew, so that is the only one I can directly, legitimately, comment on.

People love to put more into things than necessary, at times, and certain posters are really really good at that, which can skew some threads......

Timbuk3 · January 13, 2018 2:00AM

Good news, thanks for sharing !!!

Hadleydog · January 13, 2018 4:10AM

Handshakes were offered and honored, a subsequent deal was offered and accepted, and everyone involved benefited. Honesty and integrity were never questioned, it's one of the cool perks of getting to know fellow forum members.
What's not to like?

keets · January 13, 2018 5:20AM

my experiences in the Hobby tend to show that greed is very prevalent.
my experiences with the PCGS US Coin Forum tend to show a level of trust and a willingness to honor that trust which have always been positive for me.

--- perhaps 13 years ago I had a transaction that should highlight this.
1). at a local three day show I found a rare, expensive SC$ in a dealer's case. we reached agreement on a price with the contingency that it was genuine and graded at NGC.
2). I posted about it in a "Show Report" thread.
3). after about six weeks I get a PM from Bill Shamhart(njcoincrank). the dealer has the medal at the P.A.N. Show and offered it to him. Bill told him he would buy it if I passed.
4). about a week later the dealer calls me, tells me the medal has graded and offers it to me at a substantially higher price than what we had agreed upon.
5). we met at a show shortly after that, I purchased the medal and thanked him.

I have seen this dealer at shows now and then, I make it a point to stop at his table to say "Hello" but don't even browse his showcases.

njcoincrank rocks!!

astrorat · January 13, 2018 5:31AM

@coinlieutenant @Boosibri and @Vbowling were happy with their respective transactions. Congratulations and it's nice read about a positive transaction.

lkeigwin · January 13, 2018 6:54AM

I missed the point of the story with a quick read. It seems perfectly logical now and all parties are happy. Nothing could be better.
Lance.

ricko · January 13, 2018 6:56AM

@coinlieutenant .... I understood your initial post and consider it a very positive transaction. Written accounts of transactions are quite two dimensional and often lack the 'being there' factor. Thanks for the story and due credit to @boosibri and @Vbowling. Cheers, RickO

REALGATOR · January 13, 2018 10:36AM

The title of this thread should be 50 Shades of a Grey Deal.

I've never been in this situation but my thoughts are:
1. Coin is confirmed sold to me for $500 from Dealer.
2. Dealer gets offer for $600 after my negotiation is complete.

At this point Dealer should ALLOW ME THE CHOICE of:
1. Keep the deal at $500.
2. Dealer sends me $100 and sells the coin to the other offer for $600.

Since a deal was made to me (agreed to by both parties), the choice should be mine.

Every situation is different so if everyone is happy with the outcome of the OP then thats ok.

Unfortunately, in the real world, our choices usually are not this good.

Unknown · January 13, 2018 3:29PM

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DIMEMAN · January 13, 2018 4:58PM

I see nothing wrong with this deal at all. Some members out here just like to cause trouble.

Raybo · January 13, 2018 8:02PM

Your asking price on a coin that you are selling is $100 and another member (or whoever) agrees to the price.
Now you find another collector that offers you $120.
How the heck can you sell the coin to the higher bidder? I got what I wanted, I'd sell to the first person that offered what I wanted.

derryb · January 13, 2018 8:29PM

@Raybo said:
Your asking price on a coin that you are selling is $100 and another member (or whoever) agrees to the price.
Now you find another collector that offers you $120.
How the heck can you sell the coin to the higher bidder? I got what I wanted, I'd sell to the first person that offered what I wanted.

And if I know you are buying it for $100 to resell, what's wrong with me giving you the option of collecting the profit with me reselling it instead of you? I get my hundred and you get $20 for doing nothing. If you think you can resell for more than $120 I have given you the option to do so. The offer sounds like a win-win for you. This is exactly what the OP said occurred.

abcde12345 · January 13, 2018 9:07PM

The circle of thread dealers are inclined to be forthright and downright honest with their upright dealings with the rough collector, such as myslef. PCGS backs their claims with honest, wholesome grading.

Justacommeman · January 13, 2018 9:11PM

Seems like there were only winners in those two transactions.

mark

High Integrity on the PCGS board

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