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Named Hoards of Questionably Toned Coins...

TonerGuyTonerGuy Posts: 590 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

I can remember some but not a lot -- if you know of any toned coin hoards will dubious history please list them... (and their denominations) - if you know and want to post the story that goes with them even better...

Appalachian Hoard - Jefferson Nickels.
Leather Pouch Hoard - Peace $
Peacock Ikes - Ikes $

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Comments

  • mvs7mvs7 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017 1:00AM

    I thought some of the toners in the Saddle Ridge hoard (19th C. Gold) were pretty spectacular, and that hoard had some mystery to it.

    Edited to remove a direct reference to a particularly dubiously-toned eBay seller.

  • TonerGuyTonerGuy Posts: 590 ✭✭✭

    Well "Dubious History" could mean AT or QT -- But since many of the coins have been graded by both PCGS and NGC - it lends some credibility to the toning...

  • mvs7mvs7 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017 1:02AM

    @TonerGuy said:
    Well "Dubious History" could mean AT or QT -- But since many of the coins have been graded by both PCGS and NGC - it lends some credibility to the toning...

    I just got confused as to whether dubious history referred to the toning or the hoard ;). Carry on...

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    'Questionably' tarnished? Just look at most sales venues.... plenty of them....and they all qualify for 'dubious history'....Now 'coin hoards'... that is another category.... there have been a few ...the Battle Creek hoard fit both categories.... and there were a few more, old timers will recall their names....Cheers, RickO

  • TONEDDOLLARSTONEDDOLLARS Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭✭

    Appalachian nickels, continental bank hoard, Redfield dollars just to name a couple

    Magic Mirrors


    Rainbow Stars
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have never heard anything about the Battle Creek or Redfield Hoards regarding "Questionable Toning" until this thread.

  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,504 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The leather pouch hoard of Peace Dollars immediately comes to mind. They all turned in the holders, no?

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • TonerGuyTonerGuy Posts: 590 ✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017 9:01AM

    I agree with Keets. Ive never heard that the Battle Creek or Redfield Hoard were QT toned hoards. Unless you considered peach can juice questionable toning - which might be...

    Some of the coins from the Continental Hoard were toned ? I havent seen one...

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017 9:24AM

    [duplicate]

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Right now, there are many people assembling large holdings of artificially tarnished coins - all at premium prices, too. Imagine the surprise when these "things" hit the coin market in 10 or 20 years.

  • specialistspecialist Posts: 956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Battle creek is original. They were taken out of burlap bags after they were discovered. Redfield was stored badly in a moldy damp cellar.

  • TonerGuyTonerGuy Posts: 590 ✭✭✭

    @RogerB said:
    Right now, there are many people assembling large holdings of artificially tarnished coins - all at premium prices, too. Imagine the surprise when these "things" hit the coin market in 10 or 20 years.

    Large collections? I guess thats a definition issue... Maybe collections of toned coins with AT coins being a part of them. I dont know of anyone that has 1000s of AT coins. Hoards usually refer to thousands upon thousands of coins. The Battle Creek Hoard was 8000+ coins. Redfield = 500,000+ coins. Binion = 100,000+ coins...

    https://www.littletoncoin.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Display|10001|29555|-1||LearnNav|Famous-Hoards.html

    I dont know any toned coin collector that has been able to amass hoard like quantities of toned coins, AT, NT or MA.

  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,785 ✭✭✭✭

    The Appalachian Hoard has always been questionable, but they sure are pretty.

    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • TonerGuyTonerGuy Posts: 590 ✭✭✭

    @davewesen said:
    Redfield dollars became toned because of their holders - if you are going to include that than should also include Tidy House and PCI green label.

    I dont think anyone other than @TONEDDOLLARS is saying the Redfield Hoard is QT. >

    @DCW said:

    The leather pouch hoard of Peace Dollars immediately comes to mind. They all turned in the holders, no?

    No. The story is that they were stored in newspaper pages and leather pouches/bags in a hot attic. They did not turn in their holders.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    RE: TonerGuy
    In the context to individual "collectors" large might refer to a few score or hundred pieces. Many can be easily acquired from internet crooks and TV charlatans. Multiple anecdotes appear on message boards about dealers and real collectors being asked to evaluate such accumulations of worthless junk. no, these are not the "bug name" hoards. These are the "no name" assemblages of grandma wanting to pass down something valuable to their families. These are the seeds that grow into future failure and stunt any growth of the collecting hobby.

  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 7,283 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @truthteller knew a lot about the peacock hoard of ike's as I recall. This was awhile back..But "At" was thrown around a lot in regards to these graded coins..I never knew the full story.

  • TonerGuyTonerGuy Posts: 590 ✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2017 10:02PM

    @thebigeng said:
    @truthteller knew a lot about the peacock hoard of ike's as I recall. This was awhile back..But "At" was thrown around a lot in regards to these graded coins..I never knew the full story.

    If I remember correctly, Peacock Ikes were Ikes that were handed out as some sort of bank giveaway in Utah. The story was that they were toned by the plastic/cardboard holders they were placed in.

  • DRUNNERDRUNNER Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am in Utah now . . . have been here since 1960. When the Peacock Ikes came out, there was one clear source thought of in our area . . . but nothing proven or chain of custody listed.

    I have NEVER heard that story of a bank giveaway. Although I have obviously followed the hoard informally since I live here, I have never heard of a bank promo or any lineage of the coins except to a famed coin 'enhancer' here locally. Just my observation here . . . with no official proof.

    Drunner

  • jerseycat101jerseycat101 Posts: 1,360 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @specialist said:
    Battle creek is original. They were taken out of burlap bags after they were discovered. Redfield was stored badly in a moldy damp cellar.

    Did you witness the Battle Creek coins come out of the bag(s)?

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,169 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jerseycat101 said:

    @specialist said:
    Battle creek is original. They were taken out of burlap bags after they were discovered. Redfield was stored badly in a moldy damp cellar.

    Did you witness the Battle Creek coins come out of the bag(s)?

    Several reputable people did, and the coins speak for themselves. I cannot remember seeing a sketchy Battle Creek toner. If someone has, I would love to see it.

  • TonerGuyTonerGuy Posts: 590 ✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2017 9:58PM

    @DRUNNER said:
    I am in Utah now . . . have been here since 1960. When the Peacock Ikes came out, there was one clear source thought of in our area . . . but nothing proven or chain of custody listed.

    I have NEVER heard that story of a bank giveaway. Although I have obviously followed the hoard informally since I live here, I have never heard of a bank promo or any lineage of the coins except to a famed coin 'enhancer' here locally. Just my observation here . . . with no official proof.

    Drunner

    I dont believe the bank story and I think you are correct and I think the enhancer is still at work in Utah...

    But this was posted by @braddick on the forums slightly before you joined...

    I own seven of these PCGS Peacock Ikes and am proud of each of them.
    If, one day, I learn the TRUTH about these coins, so be it. In the meantime, stories of these originating from a hoard of Ikes kept in the basement of a collector in Salt Lake City (by the water heater, of course) or a bank promotion in the late seventies that had these Ikes stored in plastic snap-lock holders with a cardboard- bank logo- insert, or an AT method used that involves shoe boxes, duct tape, two types of gases and compressed air (!) do nothing to stay away my appreciation of them.

    and @Typetone posted this in the same thread....

    I posted on this before but I think the question is important for modern collectors. I modestly believe I have done a massive amount of research on this issue, and the answer is still shrouded in mystery. Let me tell what I know, and anyone please add if you know more.

    Bob Halsted is one of the great PKOK collectors. He wrote an article on the subject in the Eisenhower Dollar Guide Book. One of his hypotheses is that a bank in Salt Lake City had a promotion in the 1970s wherin they gave an IKE dollar housed in a cardboard holder in a plastic case to new depositors. The IKEs toned from the cardboard, thus the PKOKs. This theory is based on the fact that he bought a raw PKOK in a holder from the bank.

    I traced down the bank who did the promotion through several ownership changes. It is now a SLC branch of Washington Mutual. Problem is, the head of marketing at the bank says they never put IKEs in the holders. They only used Morgans. And, as far as I know we don't have any PKOK toned Morgans!! He certainly was sure they did not use any proof IKEs, and we do have proof IKE PKOKs. He named an employeee who was in charge of the program. Call him Mr. XXX. Mr. XXX is now retired. I tried to talk to Mr. XXX, but the marketing head said he would not agree to talk to me. The marketing head says they do not have any more of the coins in the bank vault.

  • HadleydogHadleydog Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2017 4:58AM

    I remember the peacock Ike stories pretty much as TonerGuy sums them up. Always a story, as stman would say. Heck, I even owned one for a short time. I did not care for it then, and one look at the image 10 years later I like it even less now.

    The leather purse peace dollars, got one of those from the Anaconda dispersal sale at Heritage for next to nothing. Kept that one in a separate room until the next Long Beach show where I happily traded it in on a nice toned buffalo nickel. Look at the reverse.....

  • GluggoGluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What the heck is going on do I need to start up my white pick up truck and get my rope out?

  • oldstandardoldstandard Posts: 387 ✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2017 2:13AM

    @DRUNNER said:
    I am in Utah now . . . have been here since 1960. When the Peacock Ikes came out, there was one clear source thought of in our area . . . but nothing proven or chain of custody listed.

    I have NEVER heard that story of a bank giveaway. Although I have obviously followed the hoard informally since I live here, I have never heard of a bank promo or any lineage of the coins except to a famed coin 'enhancer' here locally. Just my observation here . . . with no official proof.

    Drunner

    You are right but I will tell you one thing he is the best I have seen I think he started the story about the banks handing out things to justify where all the coins were coming from, makes me laugh but they are incredible coins if that's what you like. Who even knows what real is on the Ikes he started producing them in the late 80's so maybe he set the standard for what was real because that's what everyone had seen. a lot of he's coins are even the coin facts lead pictures.

  • oldstandardoldstandard Posts: 387 ✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2017 8:32AM

    @TonerGuy said:

    @DRUNNER said:
    I am in Utah now . . . have been here since 1960. When the Peacock Ikes came out, there was one clear source thought of in our area . . . but nothing proven or chain of custody listed.

    I have NEVER heard that story of a bank giveaway. Although I have obviously followed the hoard informally since I live here, I have never heard of a bank promo or any lineage of the coins except to a famed coin 'enhancer' here locally. Just my observation here . . . with no official proof.

    Drunner

    I dont believe the bank story and I think you are correct and I think the enhancer is still at work in Utah...

    But this was posted by @braddick on the forums slightly before you joined...

    I own seven of these PCGS Peacock Ikes and am proud of each of them.
    If, one day, I learn the TRUTH about these coins, so be it. In the meantime, stories of these originating from a hoard of Ikes kept in the basement of a collector in Salt Lake City (by the water heater, of course) or a bank promotion in the late seventies that had these Ikes stored in plastic snap-lock holders with a cardboard- bank logo- insert, or an AT method used that involves shoe boxes, duct tape, two types of gases and compressed air (!) do nothing to stay away my appreciation of them.

    and @Typetone posted this in the same thread....

    I posted on this before but I think the question is important for modern collectors. I modestly believe I have done a massive amount of research on this issue, and the answer is still shrouded in mystery. Let me tell what I know, and anyone please add if you know more.

    Bob Halsted is one of the great PKOK collectors. He wrote an article on the subject in the Eisenhower Dollar Guide Book. One of his hypotheses is that a bank in Salt Lake City had a promotion in the 1970s wherin they gave an IKE dollar housed in a cardboard holder in a plastic case to new depositors. The IKEs toned from the cardboard, thus the PKOKs. This theory is based on the fact that he bought a raw PKOK in a holder from the bank.

    I traced down the bank who did the promotion through several ownership changes. It is now a SLC branch of Washington Mutual. Problem is, the head of marketing at the bank says they never put IKEs in the holders. They only used Morgans. And, as far as I know we don't have any PKOK toned Morgans!! He certainly was sure they did not use any proof IKEs, and we do have proof IKE PKOKs. He named an employeee who was in charge of the program. Call him Mr. XXX. Mr. XXX is now retired. I tried to talk to Mr. XXX, but the marketing head said he would not agree to talk to me. The marketing head says they do not have any more of the coins in the bank vault.

    The truth is the peacocks are all made does not matter they are beautiful PCGS thought so to like I said he is and was the best he is like a massive part of the Ike history and 1000's have bought his coins. I wonder what he thinks when he reads this probably sit back laughs and thinks damn I good!!! Now me I like natural toned coins but I can appreciated his work some like it.

  • U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 6,313 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Does anyone have pictures or links to threads for the Peacock Ikes?

    That is one I haven’t heard of before.

  • TonerGuyTonerGuy Posts: 590 ✭✭✭

    @Hadleydog said:

    >


    I own a few, a couple that got * at NGC and one in PCGS plastic.

    Quite of few of these crossed over to PCGS. (I assume crossed since I dont know if anyone was brave enough to crack one and submit it raw...)

    Some have be reholdered with new cert #s by NGC as well.

    Many have gotten green beans from CAC

    Myer Numismatics have 10 up for sale on Ebay right now with big premiums...

    https://www.ebay.com/sch/Peace-1921-35/11980/m.html?_nkw&_armrs=1&_ipg&_from&_ssn=mayer.numismatics&_dcat=11980&Certification=NGC&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

  • TonerGuyTonerGuy Posts: 590 ✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2017 9:33AM

    @oldstandard said:

    The truth is the peacocks are all made does not matter they are beautiful PCGS thought so to like I said he is and was the best he is like a massive part of the Ike history and 1000's have bought his coins. I wonder what he thinks when he reads this probably sit back laughs and thinks damn I good!!! Now me I like natural toned coins but I can appreciated his work some like it.

    There are 1000s of his coins in PCGS holders. Ive never seen one in NGC though. Im shocked by that....

  • oldstandardoldstandard Posts: 387 ✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2017 10:56AM

    He never used NGC he only sent them to pcgs for some reason he did not like NGC he was a true PCGS diehard well that's is most people around here> @TonerGuy said:

    @oldstandard said:

    The truth is the peacocks are all made does not matter they are beautiful PCGS thought so to like I said he is and was the best he is like a massive part of the Ike history and 1000's have bought his coins. I wonder what he thinks when he reads this probably sit back laughs and thinks damn I good!!! Now me I like natural toned coins but I can appreciated his work some like it.

    There are 1000s of his coins in PCGS holders. Ive never seen one in NGC though. Im shocked by that....

    he did not like NGC pro PCGS

  • oldstandardoldstandard Posts: 387 ✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2017 10:54AM

    here is some proofs and business strikes



  • TonerGuyTonerGuy Posts: 590 ✭✭✭

    @oldstandard said:
    He never used NGC he only sent them to pcgs for some reason he did not like NGC he was a true PCGS diehard well that's is most people around here> @TonerGuy said:

    he did not like NGC pro PCGS

    Okay so I need to differentiate the coins that you posted unless they are one in the same...

    Are you stating that the Peacock Ikes and the more recent beautifully toned Ikes & JFKs that are being sold out of Utah are/were made by the same person ? Im not doubting you, but Im not sure if the coins you posted were part of the original Peacock Hoard or they are more recently slabbed since, if my memory serves me correctly, the original hoard were in green label holders. Or did you send an original hoard coin back in for regrading ?

    As for NGC, Im curious to know if someone has tried to cross over to NGC. Im sure many of these Ikes would star...

  • oldstandardoldstandard Posts: 387 ✭✭✭

    Like I said he is the best!!
    https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/op/uy25bmwad45x.png "")



  • oldstandardoldstandard Posts: 387 ✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2017 11:49AM

    @TonerGuy said:

    @oldstandard said:
    He never used NGC he only sent them to pcgs for some reason he did not like NGC he was a true PCGS diehard well that's is most people around here> @TonerGuy said:

    he did not like NGC pro PCGS

    Okay so I need to differentiate the coins that you posted unless they are one in the same...

    Are you stating that the Peacock Ikes and the more recent beautifully toned Ikes & JFKs that are being sold out of Utah are/were made by the same person ? Im not doubting you, but Im not sure if the coins you posted were part of the original Peacock Hoard or they are more recently slabbed since, if my memory serves me correctly, the original hoard were in green label holders. Or did you send an original hoard coin back in for regrading ?

    As for NGC, Im curious to know if someone has tried to cross over to NGC. Im sure many of these Ikes would star...

    The ones I posted are not his earliest it is his latest I don't have any of his original and in the beginning there he had a partner there was more then just him but he was far better on Ikes then his partner, his partner was a king at commemoratives an I mean amazing and his partner would use NGC. I do not care if you do doubt me he is the king in Ikes and a genius in numismatics Braddick could back this up along with others but who cares enjoy the coins.

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,389 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @oldstandard said:
    He never used NGC he only sent them to pcgs for some reason he did not like NGC he was a true PCGS diehard well that's is most people around here> @TonerGuy said:

    @oldstandard said:

    The truth is the peacocks are all made does not matter they are beautiful PCGS thought so to like I said he is and was the best he is like a massive part of the Ike history and 1000's have bought his coins. I wonder what he thinks when he reads this probably sit back laughs and thinks damn I good!!! Now me I like natural toned coins but I can appreciated his work some like it.

    There are 1000s of his coins in PCGS holders. Ive never seen one in NGC though. Im shocked by that....

    he did not like NGC pro PCGS

    With friends like that who needs enemies :D , I love you guys , thats why I'm going to put all this AT dreck in your holder exclusively

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,365 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As beautiful as many of those Ikes are, a true peacock Ike will show more forest greens and turquoise. A wonderful example was supercoins avatar back when he was a member here.
    Also, there was a slew of these graded with PCI back when they first opened their doors. Jim from the, "Kennedy Center" was also a market maker for these when they were first introduced.

    peacockcoins

  • oldstandardoldstandard Posts: 387 ✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2017 12:03PM

    @bronco2078 said:

    @oldstandard said:
    He never used NGC he only sent them to pcgs for some reason he did not like NGC he was a true PCGS diehard well that's is most people around here> @TonerGuy said:

    @oldstandard said:

    The truth is the peacocks are all made does not matter they are beautiful PCGS thought so to like I said he is and was the best he is like a massive part of the Ike history and 1000's have bought his coins. I wonder what he thinks when he reads this probably sit back laughs and thinks damn I good!!! Now me I like natural toned coins but I can appreciated his work some like it.

    There are 1000s of his coins in PCGS holders. Ive never seen one in NGC though. Im shocked by that....

    he did not like NGC pro PCGS

    With friends like that who needs enemies :D , I love you guys , thats why I'm going to put all this AT dreck in your holder exclusively

    No he did it honestly he not one of the dirt bags that tones them in the holders he sent them to PCGS and they put them in their holders Like I said he started this so early in the game who really know was it true original toning is on IKES and the old commemoratives and some of the commemoratives his partner did people have paid mega bucks for them.

  • jcpingjcping Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭

    @oldstandard, none of the five coins you posted can be classified as PKOK Ike dollars. If PKOK quality is so poor, they won’t be so famous.

    an SLQ and Ike dollars lover
  • jcpingjcping Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭

    @specialist said:
    Battle creek is original. They were taken out of burlap bags after they were discovered. Redfield was stored badly in a moldy damp cellar.

    While Battle Creek hoard might be original, the holders with Battke Creek pedigree might not all Battle Creek coins. The major dealer who handled the Battle Creek Hoard could put their own coins in when them submitted to TPGs. That’s why, in auctions, you can see very high price Battle Creek coins and no premium “so called” Battle Creek coins.

    an SLQ and Ike dollars lover
  • oldstandardoldstandard Posts: 387 ✭✭✭

    @braddick said:
    As beautiful as many of those Ikes are, a true peacock Ike will show more forest greens and turquoise. A wonderful example was supercoins avatar back when he was a member here.
    Also, there was a slew of these graded with PCI back when they first opened their doors. Jim from the, "Kennedy Center" was also a market maker for these when they were first introduced.

    Yes his earlier ones with is partner did have more of the colors you talked about but you know him well he knows you didn't you live for a while, his a good man that's not important. When they split up the partner that did the commemoratives took his part of formula with him he was the best on the business strikes and the other with proofs they both had different parts of the formulas they would not even share with each other they would do it in stage they made a lot of money.

  • oldstandardoldstandard Posts: 387 ✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2017 12:33PM

    @jcping said:
    @oldstandard, none of the five coins you posted can be classified as PKOK Ike dollars. If PKOK quality is so poor, they won’t be so famous.

    You are right that is not what I was telling you do not care who believes me enjoy the coins I really like him spent years in Salt lake before I move to Idaho I seen it in hand in front of me I like him better then his partner but his partner side of the formula did wonders on the commemoratives. Also they were not secretive about when I first met them they would show me a coin and the next day joke about how it tarnished overnight then it would come back in a holder. there is also an interview out there that was done with him still out there I sure some one has it one of the dealers he was doing coins for did it tey used dealers to sell the coins they did not sell them they hide one dealer almost did the dirty.

  • MrHalfDimeMrHalfDime Posts: 3,440 ✭✭✭✭

    Perhaps not as well known as some of the other collections mentioned here, and maybe does not quite meet the definition of 'hoard', but the Benson Collection auctioned on February 26, 2002 contained many coins with what I would consider 'questionable' toning. I won a few half dime lots from that sale, and was generally unimpressed with the artificial, exaggerated color on many of them.

    They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
  • TonerGuyTonerGuy Posts: 590 ✭✭✭

    @oldstandard said:

    The ones I posted are not his earliest it is his latest I don't have any of his original and in the beginning there he had a partner there was more then just him but he was far better on Ikes then his partner, his partner was a king at commemoratives an I mean amazing and his partner would use NGC. I do not care if you do doubt me he is the king in Ikes and a genius in numismatics Braddick could back this up along with others but who cares enjoy the coins.

    I wasnt doubting you. Im not sure where you got that from. I was just wondering if the first coins you posted in the thread were part of the original Peacock hoard or later work, since they do look different. Which Braddick seems to have confirmed.

    I do like his work, and if its the same person I am thinking of... I own a couple of his more recent coins in PCGS plastic.

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,389 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @oldstandard said:

    @bronco2078 said:

    @oldstandard said:
    He never used NGC he only sent them to pcgs for some reason he did not like NGC he was a true PCGS diehard well that's is most people around here> @TonerGuy said:

    @oldstandard said:

    The truth is the peacocks are all made does not matter they are beautiful PCGS thought so to like I said he is and was the best he is like a massive part of the Ike history and 1000's have bought his coins. I wonder what he thinks when he reads this probably sit back laughs and thinks damn I good!!! Now me I like natural toned coins but I can appreciated his work some like it.

    There are 1000s of his coins in PCGS holders. Ive never seen one in NGC though. Im shocked by that....

    he did not like NGC pro PCGS

    With friends like that who needs enemies :D , I love you guys , thats why I'm going to put all this AT dreck in your holder exclusively

    No he did it honestly he not one of the dirt bags that tones them in the holders he sent them to PCGS and they put them in their holders Like I said he started this so early in the game who really know was it true original toning is on IKES and the old commemoratives and some of the commemoratives his partner did people have paid mega bucks for them.

    So you are saying guys that AT raw coins then send them in are somehow not dirtbags like the ones that do it after its in the holder? The ones that do it before they are holdered are worse

  • oldstandardoldstandard Posts: 387 ✭✭✭

    @TonerGuy said:

    @oldstandard said:

    The ones I posted are not his earliest it is his latest I don't have any of his original and in the beginning there he had a partner there was more then just him but he was far better on Ikes then his partner, his partner was a king at commemoratives an I mean amazing and his partner would use NGC. I do not care if you do doubt me he is the king in Ikes and a genius in numismatics Braddick could back this up along with others but who cares enjoy the coins.

    I wasnt doubting you. Im not sure where you got that from. I was just wondering if the first coins you posted in the thread were part of the original Peacock hoard or later work, since they do look different. Which Braddick seems to have confirmed.

    I do like his work, and if its the same person I am thinking of... I own a couple of his more recent coins in PCGS plastic.

    yes I have some to he took a long break after the split of him and his partner but I did buy a couple from him when he started back up I wished I would of bought the earlier ones but never had the money at the time and they would offer them to me cheaper before they sent them in and a lot more when they would come back garded

  • oldstandardoldstandard Posts: 387 ✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2017 12:48PM

    @bronco2078 said:

    @oldstandard said:

    @bronco2078 said:

    @oldstandard said:
    He never used NGC he only sent them to pcgs for some reason he did not like NGC he was a true PCGS diehard well that's is most people around here> @TonerGuy said:

    @oldstandard said:

    The truth is the peacocks are all made does not matter they are beautiful PCGS thought so to like I said he is and was the best he is like a massive part of the Ike history and 1000's have bought his coins. I wonder what he thinks when he reads this probably sit back laughs and thinks damn I good!!! Now me I like natural toned coins but I can appreciated his work some like it.

    There are 1000s of his coins in PCGS holders. Ive never seen one in NGC though. Im shocked by that....

    he did not like NGC pro PCGS

    With friends like that who needs enemies :D , I love you guys , thats why I'm going to put all this AT dreck in your holder exclusively

    No he did it honestly he not one of the dirt bags that tones them in the holders he sent them to PCGS and they put them in their holders Like I said he started this so early in the game who really know was it true original toning is on IKES and the old commemoratives and some of the commemoratives his partner did people have paid mega bucks for them.

    So you are saying guys that AT raw coins then send them in are somehow not dirtbags like the ones that do it after its in the holder? The ones that do it before they are holdered are worse

    I understand what are saying I just mean PCGS liked them and holdered them that's it, I like natural toning also he was just an a mazing guy at what he did and I learned a lot from him on toning and how to identify fakes

  • TonerGuyTonerGuy Posts: 590 ✭✭✭

    @bronco2078 said:

    So you are saying guys that AT raw coins then send them in are somehow not dirtbags like the ones that do it after its in the holder? The ones that do it before they are holdered are worse

    Im going to disagree with you and agree with @oldstandard on this one. Anyone that can get their work past the experts at PCGS on a consistent basis over decades is not as bad as the doctor that has to work on coins that were already slabbed. PCGS has the ability to stop the raw coin doctor... its up to them to stop it. The doctor that can work on the coin in the slab - PCGS has no way to stop that though.

  • oldstandardoldstandard Posts: 387 ✭✭✭

    @TonerGuy said:

    @bronco2078 said:

    So you are saying guys that AT raw coins then send them in are somehow not dirtbags like the ones that do it after its in the holder? The ones that do it before they are holdered are worse

    Im going to disagree with you and agree with @oldstandard on this one. Anyone that can get their work past the experts at PCGS on a consistent basis over decades is not as bad as the doctor that has to work on coins that were already slabbed. PCGS has the ability to stop the raw coin doctor... its up to them to stop it. The doctor that can work on the coin in the slab - PCGS has no way to stop that though.

    Right and like what he did or not his coins are beyond amazing and look what people were paying for his partners work on the commemoratives a lot of people liked them I see them in all the register sets.

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,389 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TonerGuy said:

    @bronco2078 said:

    So you are saying guys that AT raw coins then send them in are somehow not dirtbags like the ones that do it after its in the holder? The ones that do it before they are holdered are worse

    Im going to disagree with you and agree with @oldstandard on this one. Anyone that can get their work past the experts at PCGS on a consistent basis over decades is not as bad as the doctor that has to work on coins that were already slabbed. PCGS has the ability to stop the raw coin doctor... its up to them to stop it. The doctor that can work on the coin in the slab - PCGS has no way to stop that though.

    Its a fair point , my angle is that blast white coins are going to be cleanly graded , if they are then AT'ed in the holder then its not on PCGS in any way because they were fine when they looked at them. Either way its not exactly a compliment by mr coin doc that he loves PCGS so much that he will only put his garbage in their holder. If he cared about PCGS's reputation he would send his garbage elsewhere

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