So you are saying guys that AT raw coins then send them in are somehow not dirtbags like the ones that do it after its in the holder? The ones that do it before they are holdered are worse
Im going to disagree with you and agree with @oldstandard on this one. Anyone that can get their work past the experts at PCGS on a consistent basis over decades is not as bad as the doctor that has to work on coins that were already slabbed. PCGS has the ability to stop the raw coin doctor... its up to them to stop it. The doctor that can work on the coin in the slab - PCGS has no way to stop that though.
Its a fair point , my angle is that blast white coins are going to be cleanly graded , if they are then AT'ed in the holder then its not on PCGS in any way because they were fine when they looked at them. Either way its not exactly a compliment by mr coin doc that he loves PCGS so much that he will only put his garbage in their holder. If he cared about PCGS's reputation he would send his garbage elsewhere
you don't even like anything of what he has did some of his work is incredible a lot of others paid huge money for his art I agree with you I like natural but I have a soft spot for him his knowledge was off the charts and always stayed hidden and never said a word to this day and I know he is reading this.
Its a fair point , my angle is that blast white coins are going to be cleanly graded , if they are then AT'ed in the holder then its not on PCGS in any way because they were fine when they looked at them. Either way its not exactly a compliment by mr coin doc that he loves PCGS so much that he will only put his garbage in their holder. If he cared about PCGS's reputation he would send his garbage elsewhere
He probably loves PCGS so much because hes been so obviously successful with PCGS grading and there are so many that place a premium on a coin in their holder. While your attempt to "defend" PCGS is noble, the fact is what makes them so wonderful in the eyes of many collectors and dealers makes them the best TPG for this sort of behavior.
Do you honestly think that Peacock Ikes (or similarly toned coins) would command the same premiums in ANACS holders ? lol
@MrHalfDime said:
Perhaps not as well known as some of the other collections mentioned here, and maybe does not quite meet the definition of 'hoard', but the Benson Collection auctioned on February 26, 2002 contained many coins with what I would consider 'questionable' toning. I won a few half dime lots from that sale, and was generally unimpressed with the artificial, exaggerated color on many of them.
All I found on this board was posted by @TomB back in 2005...
"I'm afraid there isn't much of a story to it. A physician purchased large lots of date runs of many series and many of these coins were subsequently saved in Wayte Raymond-style holders. Quite a few of the coins toned nicely over the years and Goldbergs had three, I believe, auctions to sell the accumulations. Substantial numbers of the coins had been previously cleaned harshly, lightly and simply dipped before being placed in the albums. Of course, there were also some outstanding gems to be had. The auctions were around 2000-2002. "
Not a hoard per se but there was the fabulous Golden Dollar collection a few years back. Probably only older board members will recall that collections short lived fame. And I believe they were all PCGS graded.
Not a hoard per se but there was the fabulous Golden Dollar collection a few years back. Probably only older board members will recall that collections short lived fame. And I believe they were all PCGS graded.
Product Details
Very nice coin with minimal contact marks and a great strike. Graded MS-63 by PCGS, with the Redfield pedigree listed on the holder. This coin has some interesting toning. This particular toning is said to be the result of cans of peaches that Redfield had in his basement that exploded, getting peach juice on a number of bags of Morgans.
The LaVere Redfield hoard of 400,000 coins, mostly mint condition, was found sealed behind a false wall in his basement.
The bachelor Redfield had lived near Reno for more than 70 years and hoarded these coins. After his death, the county court disposed of the hoard at an auction in 1976 for more than $7 million. The successful bidder split the hoard among several dealers.
These pieces, later encased in small, red plastic holders, are known simply as "Redfield dollars."
@MrHalfDime said:
Perhaps not as well known as some of the other collections mentioned here, and maybe does not quite meet the definition of 'hoard', but the Benson Collection auctioned on February 26, 2002 contained many coins with what I would consider 'questionable' toning. I won a few half dime lots from that sale, and was generally unimpressed with the artificial, exaggerated color on many of them.
Sorry, but the Benson Collection does not deserve to be brought up in this context. The Benson Collection toned after having been stored undisturbed in a safe deposit box for over fifty years. The toning was not questionable. The Benson family may have been guilty of using a bit too much Borax on some of their coins before they stored them away, leading some of the coins in the collection to have an unnatural brightness behind the colorful toning, and some with hairlines, but the toning is not questionable.
Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
As beautiful as many of those Ikes are, a true peacock Ike will show more forest green
Braddick is correct about the color of the Peacock Hoard Eisenhower Dollars. the posted quotes are what I remember being discussed back around 2003 or whenever these first showed up. the Hoard was at the forefront of the Artificial Tone/Coin Doctor plague that swept the Hobby and the forum, still a dominant topic today.
I can tell you the name of the forum member who seemed to be the source --- SUPERCOIN. he was here when I arrived and promoted these coins almost exclusively, he seemed to be on the cutting edge of Eisenhower Dollar collecting and these Peacock coins arrived via him. at least that's the way I remember it.
some of the coins sold in excess of $1,000 back then. when everything was played out, coins encapsulated by PCGS, sold here and at other venues and the Artificial Tone murmurs started to grow, SUPERCOIN slipped off into the sunset. I had PM files of my interaction with him but I have no way of accessing them since the software change. I do recall him living somewhere in the Upper Midwest, so perhaps he is the individual referenced by DRUNNER earlier in the thread.
@keets said: As beautiful as many of those Ikes are, a true peacock Ike will show more forest green
Braddick is correct about the color of the Peacock Hoard Eisenhower Dollars. the posted quotes are what I remember being discussed back around 2003 or whenever these first showed up. the Hoard was at the forefront of the Artificial Tone/Coin Doctor plague that swept the Hobby and the forum, still a dominant topic today.
I can tell you the name of the forum member who seemed to be the source --- SUPERCOIN. he was here when I arrived and promoted these coins almost exclusively, he seemed to be on the cutting edge of Eisenhower Dollar collecting and these Peacock coins arrived via him. at least that's the way I remember it.
some of the coins sold in excess of $1,000 back then. when everything was played out, coins encapsulated by PCGS, sold here and at other venues and the Artificial Tone murmurs started to grow, SUPERCOIN slipped off into the sunset. I had PM files of my interaction with him but I have no way of accessing them since the software change. I do recall him living somewhere in the Upper Midwest, so perhaps he is the individual referenced by DRUNNER earlier in the thread.
Yes you are right their earlier coins with both formulas were different and yes it is the exact same guy is drunner is talking about he knows him to
We know those were toned before submission. Pretty obvious the slabs would melt in the frying pan.
Not surprising they were sold by krypotonite . There was a weird reality distortion field surrounding that particular ebay seller, lots of forum members drank that particular flavor of koolaid.
Not surprising they were sold by krypotonite . There was a weird reality distortion field surrounding that particular ebay seller, lots of forum members drank that particular flavor of koolaid.
to my knowledge this seller never had any involvement with AT'ing coins and forum members never drank any koolaid, whatever that's supposed to mean. he may have had a lot of clients that were left unpaid but that's unrelated to AT'd coins.
@keets said: Not surprising they were sold by krypotonite . There was a weird reality distortion field surrounding that particular ebay seller, lots of forum members drank that particular flavor of koolaid.
to my knowledge this seller never had any involvement with AT'ing coins and forum members never drank any koolaid, whatever that's supposed to mean. he may have had a lot of clients that were left unpaid but that's unrelated to AT'd coins.
He ruthlessly screwed over all those consignors , but ya he'd never AT a coin or sell one someone else AT'ed .
That would be , pretty obvious way to keep that sort of consignment ponzi rolling. Oops I'm short this month on what I owe people , let me whip up a few specials.
@keets said: Not surprising they were sold by krypotonite . There was a weird reality distortion field surrounding that particular ebay seller, lots of forum members drank that particular flavor of koolaid.
to my knowledge this seller never had any involvement with AT'ing coins and forum members never drank any koolaid, whatever that's supposed to mean. he may have had a lot of clients that were left unpaid but that's unrelated to AT'd coins.
I dont know anything about clients being left unpaid. But when I was following his auctions on EBay there were some raw QT coins he would sell. I remember seeing modern proof sets being offered that were IMHO QT. I know he like many other Ebay sellers worked with consignments so those coins may have not been his but have been consigned to him for sale. I think thats what @bronco2078 might be referencing.
You may not know about Shane (kryptonitecomics) not paying folks, but there have been several extensive threads on the PCGS boards over the last year where folks have lined up in a long and expensive cue to tell their stories of how he took consignments and either failed to pay or paid only after a very long time. Unfortunately for those who missed the threads, PCGS nuked them all. I saved copies of them and can go back and reference them, but they are largely gone from the internet ether.
TonerGuy, you can infer what you want to from his post but the intent was to suggest that kryptonitecomics was AT'ing coins and that forum members were duped by his work. it is a tactic this member chooses to use here. it is well known that Shane owed/owes members and others money, as TomB posted, that is well documented and indefensible. however, I can't see any reason to make unfounded claims just because he's down.
@TomB said:
You may not know about Shane (kryptonitecomics) not paying folks, but there have been several extensive threads on the PCGS boards over the last year where folks have lined up in a long and expensive cue to tell their stories of how he took consignments and either failed to pay or paid only after a very long time. Unfortunately for those who missed the threads, PCGS nuked them all. I saved copies of them and can go back and reference them, but they are largely gone from the internet ether.
If you (or anyone else) knows....
Why did PCGS nuke them ? Was it threat of legal action by Shane? Did he ever finally pay those he owed ? I could not find him as a seller on Ebay... is he still actively selling there ? Under what seller name ?
I read the main question wrong and I apologize for my post. As for questionable toning Appalachian was one and there were some who questioned the Battle Creek coins.
@specialist said:
Battle creek is original. They were taken out of burlap bags after they were discovered. Redfield was stored badly in a moldy damp cellar.
While Battle Creek hoard might be original, the holders with Battke Creek pedigree might not all Battle Creek coins. The major dealer who handled the Battle Creek Hoard could put their own coins in when them submitted to TPGs. That’s why, in auctions, you can see very high price Battle Creek coins and no premium “so called” Battle Creek coins.
That is a load of horse manure. Don't blather on about things you don't know about. I have seen and handled almost all of the BC coins.
The BC coins came out of 9 bags. No dealer could add "their own coins" in to the mix. The reason you see no premium BC coins is that ONLY the coins that got a * were given the BC designation. This lead to a bias in starring some of the coins. Of the 9,000 potential coins from the BC hoard, only ~ 1,400 got the *, and thus the BC designation. IMO roughly 600 of those that got the star in no way shape or form should have gotten the star. So, almost half of all BC designated coins, are not particularly special in any way. Another couple hundred were borderline star IMO.
There are PLENTY of BC coins in PCGS plastic without the BC pedigree, as, after putting up with the AT pejorative bovine scat for X years, a variety of dealers started cracking the coins out and submitting them to PCGS. All of the ones that I have seen in PCGS plastic graded at least the same technical grade as they did in NGC plastic, and, to the best of my knowledge, all the BC coins that were sent in to PCGS were straight graded, e.g. NO question of AT.
@TomB said:
You may not know about Shane (kryptonitecomics) not paying folks, but there have been several extensive threads on the PCGS boards over the last year where folks have lined up in a long and expensive cue to tell their stories of how he took consignments and either failed to pay or paid only after a very long time. Unfortunately for those who missed the threads, PCGS nuked them all. I saved copies of them and can go back and reference them, but they are largely gone from the internet ether.
If you (or anyone else) knows....
Why did PCGS nuke them ? Was it threat of legal action by Shane? Did he ever finally pay those he owed ? I could not find him as a seller on Ebay... is he still actively selling there ? Under what seller name ?
In my original comment, all that I meant to say was that kryptonite was selling these Ikes. I did not imply he was toning them in any way. I believe many of the questionable coins he auctioned were consignments (and near the end may have involved an unfortunate deal with edynamicmarketing).
@TomB said:
You may not know about Shane (kryptonitecomics) not paying folks, but there have been several extensive threads on the PCGS boards over the last year where folks have lined up in a long and expensive cue to tell their stories of how he took consignments and either failed to pay or paid only after a very long time. Unfortunately for those who missed the threads, PCGS nuked them all. I saved copies of them and can go back and reference them, but they are largely gone from the internet ether.
If you (or anyone else) knows....
Why did PCGS nuke them ? Was it threat of legal action by Shane? Did he ever finally pay those he owed ? I could not find him as a seller on Ebay... is he still actively selling there ? Under what seller name ?
Things began to get out of hand when people brought up Shane's other legal problems.
@TomB said:
You may not know about Shane (kryptonitecomics) not paying folks, but there have been several extensive threads on the PCGS boards over the last year where folks have lined up in a long and expensive cue to tell their stories of how he took consignments and either failed to pay or paid only after a very long time. Unfortunately for those who missed the threads, PCGS nuked them all. I saved copies of them and can go back and reference them, but they are largely gone from the internet ether.
If you (or anyone else) knows....
Why did PCGS nuke them ? Was it threat of legal action by Shane? Did he ever finally pay those he owed ? I could not find him as a seller on Ebay... is he still actively selling there ? Under what seller name ?
In my original comment, all that I meant to say was that kryptonite was selling these Ikes. I did not imply he was toning them in any way. I believe many of the questionable coins he auctioned were consignments (and near the end may have involved an unfortunate deal with edynamicmarketing).
Well I never got paid and now I know $6500 is gone I was selling my coins to cover my daughters expense on her MS medication Obama put a huge damamper on our family when he went into office we paid $800 a month for insurance when he left our monthly bill is now $2800 I hate that man I wish he would of kept his lying hands out of insurance and big pharma he destroyed our family now i get to watch him enjoying all his kick backs for what did I don't just hate him I hate them all.
@TomB said:
You may not know about Shane (kryptonitecomics) not paying folks, but there have been several extensive threads on the PCGS boards over the last year where folks have lined up in a long and expensive cue to tell their stories of how he took consignments and either failed to pay or paid only after a very long time. Unfortunately for those who missed the threads, PCGS nuked them all. I saved copies of them and can go back and reference them, but they are largely gone from the internet ether.
If you (or anyone else) knows....
Why did PCGS nuke them ? Was it threat of legal action by Shane? Did he ever finally pay those he owed ? I could not find him as a seller on Ebay... is he still actively selling there ? Under what seller name ?
In my original comment, all that I meant to say was that kryptonite was selling these Ikes. I did not imply he was toning them in any way. I believe many of the questionable coins he auctioned were consignments (and near the end may have involved an unfortunate deal with edynamicmarketing).
Well I never got paid and now I know $6500 is gone I was selling my coins to cover my daughters expense on her MS medication Obama put a huge damamper on our family when he went into office we paid $800 a month for insurance when he left our monthly bill is now $2800 I hate that man I wish he would of kept his lying hands out of insurance and big pharma he destroyed our family now i get to watch him enjoying all his kick backs for what did I don't just hate him I hate them all.
That's really terrible and I feel for you and all those that got burned. I hope brighter times will be coming for you and the rest! Don't give up and take care of what is most important.
@TomB said:
You may not know about Shane (kryptonitecomics) not paying folks, but there have been several extensive threads on the PCGS boards over the last year where folks have lined up in a long and expensive cue to tell their stories of how he took consignments and either failed to pay or paid only after a very long time. Unfortunately for those who missed the threads, PCGS nuked them all. I saved copies of them and can go back and reference them, but they are largely gone from the internet ether.
If you (or anyone else) knows....
Why did PCGS nuke them ? Was it threat of legal action by Shane? Did he ever finally pay those he owed ? I could not find him as a seller on Ebay... is he still actively selling there ? Under what seller name ?
In my original comment, all that I meant to say was that kryptonite was selling these Ikes. I did not imply he was toning them in any way. I believe many of the questionable coins he auctioned were consignments (and near the end may have involved an unfortunate deal with edynamicmarketing).
Well I never got paid and now I know $6500 is gone I was selling my coins to cover my daughters expense on her MS medication Obama put a huge damamper on our family when he went into office we paid $800 a month for insurance when he left our monthly bill is now $2800 I hate that man I wish he would of kept his lying hands out of insurance and big pharma he destroyed our family now i get to watch him enjoying all his kick backs for what did I don't just hate him I hate them all.
That's really terrible and I feel for you and all those that got burned. I hope brighter times will be coming for you and the rest! Don't give up and take care of what is most important.
It been so long the money is gone I accepted it and moved on, looks like he was a bigger clown then I thought.
@braddick said:
As beautiful as many of those Ikes are, a true peacock Ike will show more forest greens and turquoise. A wonderful example was supercoins avatar back when he was a member here.
Also, there was a slew of these graded with PCI back when they first opened their doors. Jim from the, "Kennedy Center" was also a market maker for these when they were first introduced.
This is what I remember as well. Jim tried to sell me a few (probably circa 1993/4) since I was on his mailing list but I didn't want to pay those big prices.
I had heard from a local dealer YEARS later they were all "created" in Utah by a dealer I remember who, as it turns out, often had a table at the Long Beach shows. By the time I heard this however he no longer attended the shows. At the time he attended there was NO connection whatsoever to the P-Ikes so it was weird to me that there was this connection. Clearly, if true, the dealer sold his "stuff" through channels other than at his own table at shows....such as Jim at the "Kennedy Center".
I wonder how Jim is doing now...haven't spoken with him in years....
@MrHalfDime said:
Perhaps not as well known as some of the other collections mentioned here, and maybe does not quite meet the definition of 'hoard', but the Benson Collection auctioned on February 26, 2002 contained many coins with what I would consider 'questionable' toning. I won a few half dime lots from that sale, and was generally unimpressed with the artificial, exaggerated color on many of them.
All I found on this board was posted by @TomB back in 2005...
"I'm afraid there isn't much of a story to it. A physician purchased large lots of date runs of many series and many of these coins were subsequently saved in Wayte Raymond-style holders. Quite a few of the coins toned nicely over the years and Goldbergs had three, I believe, auctions to sell the accumulations. Substantial numbers of the coins had been previously cleaned harshly, lightly and simply dipped before being placed in the albums. Of course, there were also some outstanding gems to be had. The auctions were around 2000-2002. "
Disclosure: I own a couple of Bust dimes that were in that sale...although only bought them in the last year or so.
I don't find either piece I own QT...they might have been dipped at one point (my 1811 specifically) and then retoned but I don't see a blatant attempt at toning. It seems Tom's comments were spot on.
@braddick said:
As beautiful as many of those Ikes are, a true peacock Ike will show more forest greens and turquoise. A wonderful example was supercoins avatar back when he was a member here.
Also, there was a slew of these graded with PCI back when they first opened their doors. Jim from the, "Kennedy Center" was also a market maker for these when they were first introduced.
This is what I remember as well. Jim tried to sell me a few (probably circa 1993/4) since I was on his mailing list but I didn't want to pay those big prices.
I had heard from a local dealer YEARS later they were all "created" in Utah by a dealer I remember who, as it turns out, often had a table at the Long Beach shows. By the time I heard this however he no longer attended the shows. At the time he attended there was NO connection whatsoever to the P-Ikes so it was weird to me that there was this connection. Clearly, if true, the dealer sold his "stuff" through channels other than at his own table at shows....such as Jim at the "Kennedy Center".
I wonder how Jim is doing now...haven't spoken with him in years....
jom
yep that's the team I seen it with my own eyes a lot of the big dealers know him but I was just saying never seen anyone as good as that man and he has the brains to go with it. I mean I see fakes but his are like art and look real but maybe he created what was real on the Ikes
Comments
you don't even like anything of what he has did some of his work is incredible a lot of others paid huge money for his art I agree with you I like natural but I have a soft spot for him his knowledge was off the charts and always stayed hidden and never said a word to this day and I know he is reading this.
He probably loves PCGS so much because hes been so obviously successful with PCGS grading and there are so many that place a premium on a coin in their holder. While your attempt to "defend" PCGS is noble, the fact is what makes them so wonderful in the eyes of many collectors and dealers makes them the best TPG for this sort of behavior.
Do you honestly think that Peacock Ikes (or similarly toned coins) would command the same premiums in ANACS holders ? lol
Here's a link to some of the auctions ---> http://www.goldbergcoins.net/catalogarchive/cgi-script/csSearchPro/csSearchPro.cgi?command=query&terms=benson&mbool=AND&mcase=Insensitive&rndURL=936.3077296918694
All I found on this board was posted by @TomB back in 2005...
"I'm afraid there isn't much of a story to it. A physician purchased large lots of date runs of many series and many of these coins were subsequently saved in Wayte Raymond-style holders. Quite a few of the coins toned nicely over the years and Goldbergs had three, I believe, auctions to sell the accumulations. Substantial numbers of the coins had been previously cleaned harshly, lightly and simply dipped before being placed in the albums. Of course, there were also some outstanding gems to be had. The auctions were around 2000-2002. "
So what is the factors in calling it a hoard
Not a hoard per se but there was the fabulous Golden Dollar collection a few years back. Probably only older board members will recall that collections short lived fame. And I believe they were all PCGS graded.
K
@ElKevvo said:
Here is a link to the Fry Pan collection.
https://pcgs.com/SetRegistry/alltimeset/11260
Some of the Redfield dollars had 'peach juice toning'
I found this one at APMEX.
https://apmex.com/product/66199/1896-s-morgan-dollar-ms-63-pcgs-redfield-hoard
Product Details
Very nice coin with minimal contact marks and a great strike. Graded MS-63 by PCGS, with the Redfield pedigree listed on the holder. This coin has some interesting toning. This particular toning is said to be the result of cans of peaches that Redfield had in his basement that exploded, getting peach juice on a number of bags of Morgans.
The LaVere Redfield hoard of 400,000 coins, mostly mint condition, was found sealed behind a false wall in his basement.
The bachelor Redfield had lived near Reno for more than 70 years and hoarded these coins. After his death, the county court disposed of the hoard at an auction in 1976 for more than $7 million. The successful bidder split the hoard among several dealers.
These pieces, later encased in small, red plastic holders, are known simply as "Redfield dollars."
Sorry, but the Benson Collection does not deserve to be brought up in this context. The Benson Collection toned after having been stored undisturbed in a safe deposit box for over fifty years. The toning was not questionable. The Benson family may have been guilty of using a bit too much Borax on some of their coins before they stored them away, leading some of the coins in the collection to have an unnatural brightness behind the colorful toning, and some with hairlines, but the toning is not questionable.
As beautiful as many of those Ikes are, a true peacock Ike will show more forest green
Braddick is correct about the color of the Peacock Hoard Eisenhower Dollars. the posted quotes are what I remember being discussed back around 2003 or whenever these first showed up. the Hoard was at the forefront of the Artificial Tone/Coin Doctor plague that swept the Hobby and the forum, still a dominant topic today.
I can tell you the name of the forum member who seemed to be the source --- SUPERCOIN. he was here when I arrived and promoted these coins almost exclusively, he seemed to be on the cutting edge of Eisenhower Dollar collecting and these Peacock coins arrived via him. at least that's the way I remember it.
some of the coins sold in excess of $1,000 back then. when everything was played out, coins encapsulated by PCGS, sold here and at other venues and the Artificial Tone murmurs started to grow, SUPERCOIN slipped off into the sunset. I had PM files of my interaction with him but I have no way of accessing them since the software change. I do recall him living somewhere in the Upper Midwest, so perhaps he is the individual referenced by DRUNNER earlier in the thread.
Yes you are right their earlier coins with both formulas were different and yes it is the exact same guy is drunner is talking about he knows him to
Was there a hoard of casino Ikes that were toned that ended up in ICG holders ?
I cant remember the name though... anyone know anything about these coins ?
Yes there is the Golden Nugget Casino hoard of Ikes in ICG holders.
I don’t know much. All I recall is that kryptonite sold quite a few on eBay.
Here is a picture from online:
https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/78-jpg.320948/
And a thread that briefly mentions them (no idea if the info there is accurate about them being used by the big money guys at the casino):
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/do-high-grade-ike-dollars-have-long-term-potential.244378/
Yep... those are ones... anyone have any info on this hoard beyond the fact that they were from the Golden Nugget ?
I'm> @U1chicago said:
We know those were toned before submission. Pretty obvious the slabs would melt in the frying pan.
Not surprising they were sold by krypotonite . There was a weird reality distortion field surrounding that particular ebay seller, lots of forum members drank that particular flavor of koolaid.
Not surprising they were sold by krypotonite . There was a weird reality distortion field surrounding that particular ebay seller, lots of forum members drank that particular flavor of koolaid.
to my knowledge this seller never had any involvement with AT'ing coins and forum members never drank any koolaid, whatever that's supposed to mean. he may have had a lot of clients that were left unpaid but that's unrelated to AT'd coins.
He ruthlessly screwed over all those consignors , but ya he'd never AT a coin or sell one someone else AT'ed .
That would be , pretty obvious way to keep that sort of consignment ponzi rolling. Oops I'm short this month on what I owe people , let me whip up a few specials.
I dont know anything about clients being left unpaid. But when I was following his auctions on EBay there were some raw QT coins he would sell. I remember seeing modern proof sets being offered that were IMHO QT. I know he like many other Ebay sellers worked with consignments so those coins may have not been his but have been consigned to him for sale. I think thats what @bronco2078 might be referencing.
You may not know about Shane (kryptonitecomics) not paying folks, but there have been several extensive threads on the PCGS boards over the last year where folks have lined up in a long and expensive cue to tell their stories of how he took consignments and either failed to pay or paid only after a very long time. Unfortunately for those who missed the threads, PCGS nuked them all. I saved copies of them and can go back and reference them, but they are largely gone from the internet ether.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
TonerGuy, you can infer what you want to from his post but the intent was to suggest that kryptonitecomics was AT'ing coins and that forum members were duped by his work. it is a tactic this member chooses to use here. it is well known that Shane owed/owes members and others money, as TomB posted, that is well documented and indefensible. however, I can't see any reason to make unfounded claims just because he's down.
If you (or anyone else) knows....
Why did PCGS nuke them ? Was it threat of legal action by Shane? Did he ever finally pay those he owed ? I could not find him as a seller on Ebay... is he still actively selling there ? Under what seller name ?
I read the main question wrong and I apologize for my post. As for questionable toning Appalachian was one and there were some who questioned the Battle Creek coins.
Rainbow Stars
That is a load of horse manure. Don't blather on about things you don't know about. I have seen and handled almost all of the BC coins.
The BC coins came out of 9 bags. No dealer could add "their own coins" in to the mix. The reason you see no premium BC coins is that ONLY the coins that got a * were given the BC designation. This lead to a bias in starring some of the coins. Of the 9,000 potential coins from the BC hoard, only ~ 1,400 got the *, and thus the BC designation. IMO roughly 600 of those that got the star in no way shape or form should have gotten the star. So, almost half of all BC designated coins, are not particularly special in any way. Another couple hundred were borderline star IMO.
There are PLENTY of BC coins in PCGS plastic without the BC pedigree, as, after putting up with the AT pejorative bovine scat for X years, a variety of dealers started cracking the coins out and submitting them to PCGS. All of the ones that I have seen in PCGS plastic graded at least the same technical grade as they did in NGC plastic, and, to the best of my knowledge, all the BC coins that were sent in to PCGS were straight graded, e.g. NO question of AT.
U.S. Type Set
In my original comment, all that I meant to say was that kryptonite was selling these Ikes. I did not imply he was toning them in any way. I believe many of the questionable coins he auctioned were consignments (and near the end may have involved an unfortunate deal with edynamicmarketing).
And the latest story on kryptonite was not even related to not paying. See here:
https://www.ngccoin.com/boards/topic/411626-unfortunate-update-on-kryptonite-comics-shane-canup/
Those are much more serious charges that fraudulent Ebay sales... he's been in jail awaiting trial for 7 months now....
While the officers were present, his computer was downloading the illegal images.... wow...
http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/News/2017/May/FDLE-arrests-Casselberry-man-for-possession-of-chi.aspx
Things began to get out of hand when people brought up Shane's other legal problems.
https://www.seminoleclerk.org/CriminalDocket/case_detail.jsp?CaseNo=592017CF001647A
Well I never got paid and now I know $6500 is gone I was selling my coins to cover my daughters expense on her MS medication Obama put a huge damamper on our family when he went into office we paid $800 a month for insurance when he left our monthly bill is now $2800 I hate that man I wish he would of kept his lying hands out of insurance and big pharma he destroyed our family now i get to watch him enjoying all his kick backs for what did I don't just hate him I hate them all.
That's really terrible and I feel for you and all those that got burned. I hope brighter times will be coming for you and the rest! Don't give up and take care of what is most important.
It been so long the money is gone I accepted it and moved on, looks like he was a bigger clown then I thought.
This is what I remember as well. Jim tried to sell me a few (probably circa 1993/4) since I was on his mailing list but I didn't want to pay those big prices.
I had heard from a local dealer YEARS later they were all "created" in Utah by a dealer I remember who, as it turns out, often had a table at the Long Beach shows. By the time I heard this however he no longer attended the shows. At the time he attended there was NO connection whatsoever to the P-Ikes so it was weird to me that there was this connection. Clearly, if true, the dealer sold his "stuff" through channels other than at his own table at shows....such as Jim at the "Kennedy Center".
I wonder how Jim is doing now...haven't spoken with him in years....
jom
Disclosure: I own a couple of Bust dimes that were in that sale...although only bought them in the last year or so.
I don't find either piece I own QT...they might have been dipped at one point (my 1811 specifically) and then retoned but I don't see a blatant attempt at toning. It seems Tom's comments were spot on.
jom
yep that's the team I seen it with my own eyes a lot of the big dealers know him but I was just saying never seen anyone as good as that man and he has the brains to go with it. I mean I see fakes but his are like art and look real but maybe he created what was real on the Ikes